Nature's Logic dry kibble

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

This is now the first ingredient, lets get real, Mars makes Uncle Bens and a lot of other rice products, they have lots of brewers rice left over, so they use it in dog food. It's empty calories, yes dogs need calories, but why not give them a quality carbohydrate that has vitamins and other nutrients. I'm finding a 5 pound dog, not a pig going to market. I've never been the type to look at one ingredient and make a decision based upon that. I never thought Royal Canin for Yorkshire Terrier was a great food, it was a "good" food in my opinion, however going from chicken meal to chicken by-product and using brewers rice as the first ingredient instead of chicken meal, lowers the quality substantially.

That's why the nutrient profile of the whole entire product is relevant.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by 107barney

That's why the nutrient profile of the whole entire product is relevant.

I agree that the nutritional panel is important, but while some people think eating a hotdog and taking vitamin is as nutritious as eating a quality protein, carbohydrate and vegetable, I'm not one of those people. The “panel” might look the same, but I don’t think it is.

[Ellie May]

Yes, I did take a nutrition class in particular; however, I have found that biochem and other classes that bio majors have to take are much more important when taking about food and metabolism.

I just want to point out that NL also contains by-products. Liver or sometimes considered to be one and blood (or porcine plasma) is definitely one. In fact, it is a cheap source of protein and is sometimes considered slaughterhouse waste.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Yes, I did take a nutrition class in particular; however, I have found that biochem and other classes that bio majors have to take are much more important when taking about food and metabolism.

I just want to point out that NL also contains by-products. Liver or sometimes considered to be one and blood (or porcine plasma) is definitely one. In fact, it is a cheap source of protein and is sometimes considered slaughterhouse waste.

I've heard spraying porcine plasma (pig blood) on pet food makes it Look more appealing.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I agree that the nutritional panel is important, but while some people think eating a hotdog and taking vitamin is as nutritious as eating a quality protein, carbohydrate and vegetable, I'm not one of those people. The “panel” might look the same, but I don’t think it is.

Some hot dogs are very nutritious. I buy grass fed beef ones with no additives from local sources. I'm astounded that you think reading the label tells you something about the quality of the pet food. I don't think an ingredient list tells you anything about the quality of the food. You could read chicken on a label but that doesn't mean it was a fresh kill from a pasture raised farmer. In that regard, I'd take freshly killed chicken byproduct meal over the rotting carcass of an old decomposing chicken from an overcrowded chicken house. Plus, there is a huge difference between feed lot chicken byproduct meal and pet food byproduct meal.

[Britster]

Personally, I don't have a big issue with byproducts themselves. I think it makes me slightly... 'uncomfortable' to have it as the only source of meat protein. I guess I just don't really think the price of RC's foods are worth it, never have really, but have respected the company for a while now for the research that they do.

But especially with the newer ingredient lists... can someone answer to me, why NOT just feed Purina for half the cost and a very similar guarantee analysis, nutrient profile and ingredient panel? 107barney, ladyjane, EllieMay, I know you guys have all supported and stood by Purina as well. I am genuinely curious (not being snarky) if there is a reason RC stands out instead of Purina to you guys.

One thing that's always bugged me about RC in particular is their lack of variety. All formulas seem to contain chicken and are all pretty similar. Some dogs do not do well on chicken. It would be nice to have a limited ingredient RC variety that is not RX.

[Britster]

Fwiw, I don't think think Nature's Logic is all that great, either.... but if it works....

Honestly, Jackson did really well on Purina Beyond and I wouldn't hesitate to feed it again if I have to. Occasionally I do have to grab a bag of dog food at the grocery store. Also know of a lot of dogs that do fabulous on Purina Sensitive Stomach and Skin.

[107barney]

Brit,
I did feed Purina to one of my dogs. I went with RC because my vet nutritionist recommended it for Winston and Teddy. Since she's an expert, I deferred to her. Teddy can no longer eat the Yorkie formula because he is a stone maker and I'm home cooking these days 100% again.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Britster

Personally, I don't have a big issue with byproducts themselves. I think it makes me slightly... 'uncomfortable' to have it as the only source of meat protein. I guess I just don't really think the price of RC's foods are worth it, never have really, but have respected the company for a while now for the research that they do.

But especially with the newer ingredient lists... can someone answer to me, why NOT just feed Purina for half the cost and a very similar guarantee analysis, nutrient profile and ingredient panel? 107barney, ladyjane, EllieMay, I know you guys have all supported and stood by Purina as well. I am genuinely curious (not being snarky) if there is a reason RC stands out instead of Purina to you guys.

One thing that's always bugged me about RC in particular is their lack of variety. All formulas seem to contain chicken and are all pretty similar. Some dogs do not do well on chicken. It would be nice to have a limited ingredient RC variety that is not RX.

I use Purina RX foods, but would not hesitate to use the store foods if I did not use Hill's. I don't use RC store foods either, again because I use Hill's. I trust all three companies!
The conversation has been about RC this week so that is all I have commented on. I certainly did not mean to leave Purina out.

[ladyjane]

Speaking of Hill's Science Diet, Nancy are you familiar with Ideal Balance? You might find it interesting...

[Britster]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Brit,
I did feed Purina to one of my dogs. I went with RC because my vet nutritionist recommended it for Winston and Teddy. Since she's an expert, I deferred to her. Teddy can no longer eat the Yorkie formula because he is a stone maker and I'm home cooking these days 100% again.

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I use Purina RX foods, but would not hesitate to use the store foods if I did not use Hill's. I don't use RC store foods either, again because I use Hill's. I trust all three companies!
The conversation has been about RC this week so that is all I have commented on. I certainly did not mean to leave Purina out.

I just meant if you had a choice, had dogs with zero health issues, and did not have nutritionists available to you.... would you choose to feed RC at somewhere around $3-$6/per lb depending on formula or size of bag, or Purina at <$1-$2 per lb? At this point, I guess I just don't see why anyone would pay RC's astronomical prices for formulas extremely similar to those you can find MUCH cheaper. So just a rhetorical question really. Even if all 3 companies are trustworthy to you, would you or would you not choose to feed the cheaper yet equal, imo, food?

I've seen the 2.5lb bags of Yorkie food go for $18.99. And yes I get with the smaller pups, you're not feeding as much, but seriously that equals out to over $7 per pound. I could pick up a 4lb bag of Purina Beyond for like $8-$10 at the store.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Britster

I just meant if you had a choice, had dogs with zero health issues, and did not have nutritionists available to you.... would you choose to feed RC at somewhere around $3-$6/per lb depending on formula or size of bag, or Purina at <$1-$2 per lb? At this point, I guess I just don't see why anyone would pay RC's astronomical prices for formulas extremely similar to those you can find MUCH cheaper. So just a rhetorical question really. Even if all 3 companies are trustworthy to you, would you or would you not choose to feed the cheaper yet equal, imo, food?

I've seen the 2.5lb bags of Yorkie food go for $18.99. And yes I get with the smaller pups, you're not feeding as much, but seriously that equals out to over $7 per pound. I could pick up a 4lb bag of Purina Beyond for like $8-$10 at the store.

Oh, I think it is a very valid point. Especially in my house...my food bill is crazy! Honestly, if feeding just one yorkie I don't know if I would think much of it. I guess it all depends on the consumer. For some people price does not matter. I imagine a lot of people buy RC Yorkshire Terrier...or their other specific breed formulas because they like that it is made to fit the profile of the pup. When I switched to Hill's I did it because it had similar ingredients to the food I had previously used. I had left them out of a fear of the recalls and I wanted to go company first, ingredients second. Now, when I say ingredients, I do not mean that I looked at the label with a total focus and nit picked it... ... just an overview. I did not put price into that equation.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Yes, I did take a nutrition class in particular; however, I have found that biochem and other classes that bio majors have to take are much more important when taking about food and metabolism.

I just want to point out that NL also contains by-products. Liver or sometimes considered to be one and blood (or porcine plasma) is definitely one. In fact, it is a cheap source of protein and is sometimes considered slaughterhouse waste.

Chrystal, do you think the word "by-product" offends me, if so, you are missing the point. So many of your replies imply that I don't like the word, or that I'm not aware that certain by-products can be healthy or have valuable nutrients. I don't want the only source of my dog's protein to be a by-product. I think livers are excellent, but I wouldn't want that to be the only source of protein. Do you understand that in chicken meal by-products, they don't have to have livers or gizzards, they can have whatever is left over after muscle meat is removed, and the human market takes what it wants. So we are talking about feet, beaks, intestines, thats for sure because human market doesn't accept those, and possibly necks, livers and gizzards, but since the human market accepts these, I'm not sure so much of that goes in, we have no way of knowing. Not to say, intestines are nutritious and even beaks and feet have protein, but I'm not sure if it's a usable protein Chicken meal by-product varies greatly from batch to batch.

I not only don't mind that Nature's Logic has found a cheap way to add natural vitamins, through porcine plasma, (a by-product), I think it's actually brilliant. Read about it, it's loaded with vitamins, I think earlier you said something about being able to understand the pull toward natural vitamins, instead of synthetic, and this food sounds too good to be true, well the blood allows them to do that without making the price cost prohibitive. I think that also what attracts the dogs to the food, Joey in particular, has always been fussy and smell of blood appeals to him.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I've heard spraying porcine plasma (pig blood) on pet food makes it Look more appealing.

It's loaded with natural vitamins, and it's not the looks dogs are interested, it's the smell.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Some hot dogs are very nutritious. I buy grass fed beef ones with no additives from local sources. I'm astounded that you think reading the label tells you something about the quality of the pet food. I don't think an ingredient list tells you anything about the quality of the food. You could read chicken on a label but that doesn't mean it was a fresh kill from a pasture raised farmer. In that regard, I'd take freshly killed chicken byproduct meal over the rotting carcass of an old decomposing chicken from an overcrowded chicken house. Plus, there is a huge difference between feed lot chicken byproduct meal and pet food byproduct meal.

Yes, I know that some hot dogs are nutritious, but how can you tell if you don't read the label? Honestly, Cathy, you're allowed to feed whatever you like.