Annual Vaccinactions - why are some still doing them?

[Ellie May]

Kay, I did want to say thank you for posting that b/c it makes it easier to understand why so many people still do it annually. They are scared about what might happen if they don't vaccinate and I can't blame them. That's a lot of pressure for an owner...

[kay6688]

Originally Posted by dwerten

LOL the three year vaccine is the same as the one year they just call it the one year for the one year booster then 3 year thereafter but it is the same vaccine ultimately so maybe you should ask if the 3 year is the same as the one year vaccine from manufacturer

also it depends on county you live in not state for rabies.

also ask if they vaccinate in areas so if the dog gets cancer in that spot they can amputate?

At my vet visit on 6/8 - he said his vaccine is different for 3 years or 1 year. Have you ever thought of that? Maybe, he uses a different one than your vet. Just saying that I had a long conversation with him before getting Macy's yearly rabies. I am trying to do what is best for my fur butts....This is a very trusted Vet & has been my Vet for the last 14 years- He agrees with alot of things - but said the vaccines are different for 3yrs & 1 yr. In our state it is a Missouri Law - not a county one.

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by kay6688

At my vet visit on 6/8 - he said his vaccine is different for 3 years or 1 year. Have you ever thought of that? Maybe, he uses a different one than your vet. Just saying that I had a long conversation with him before getting Macy's yearly rabies. I am trying to do what is best for my fur butts....This is a very trusted Vet & has been my Vet for the last 14 years- He agrees with alot of things - but said the vaccines are different for 3yrs & 1 yr. In our state it is a Missouri Law - not a county one.

I was told the vaccines differ depending on the manufacturer. At least one major manufacturer does make a vaccine where the one year is identical to the 3 year dose. Other manufactures make both kinds. I'm sure your vet knows which one he's using, Kay. Here in OK, the law varies by county. My county uses the 3 year vaccines now while others still use the one year vaccines. I still haven't decided how I feel about that.

[kay6688]

Originally Posted by BonBon

I was told the vaccines differ depending on the manufacturer. At least one major manufacturer does make a vaccine where the one year is identical to the 3 year dose. Other manufactures make both kinds. I'm sure your vet knows which one he's using, Kay. Here in OK, the law varies by county. My county uses the 3 year vaccines now while others still use the one year vaccines. I still haven't decided how I feel about that.

TY - I appreciate it. I knew my Vet wouldn't be lying to me.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Kay, I did want to say thank you for posting that b/c it makes it easier to understand why so many people still do it annually. They are scared about what might happen if they don't vaccinate and I can't blame them. That's a lot of pressure for an owner...

yep fear is always a motivator to get people to do what you want sadly

Just curious if they over vaccinate dogs with health issues as the bottle says for healthy dogs only so are they following what the directions from manufacture are?

[Ellie May]

While Pfizer admits that theirs is the same, I don't see anything like that from other companies, so trying to figure out the difference. It looks theoretically possible that the three year have more adjuvants, but then giving only part of the adjuvants every year is not healthy either...

I may just have to start contacting companies.

[kay6688]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

While Pfizer admits that theirs is the same, I don't see anything like that from other companies, so trying to figure out the difference. It looks theoretically possible that the three year have more adjuvants, but then giving only part of the adjuvants every year is not healthy either...

I may just have to start contacting companies.

TY - let me know what you find out! We go back in 3 weeks for the DHPP booster.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by kay6688

At my vet visit on 6/8 - he said his vaccine is different for 3 years or 1 year. Have you ever thought of that? Maybe, he uses a different one than your vet. Just saying that I had a long conversation with him before getting Macy's yearly rabies. I am trying to do what is best for my fur butts....This is a very trusted Vet & has been my Vet for the last 14 years- He agrees with alot of things - but said the vaccines are different for 3yrs & 1 yr. In our state it is a Missouri Law - not a county one.

I can ask Jean Dodds as I am sure she has done research on all of this since she is doing the rabies challenge to prove it lasts 5 years and then 7 years after that. Can you ask your vet the manufacturer he uses as my understanding is that the one year and 3 year are the same for all but I will check it out further for you for sure as I have read many discussions on this on a vet group I am on and all have said they are the same vaccine so maybe the pharmaceutical rep is telling your vet this and he is trusting the pharma company and passing on to clients but I tend to call the manufacture myself to make sure on things such as medications and also check with pharmacists.

I guess you can say I am not so trusting anymore after dealing with dogs with health issues. I use to be much more trusting sadly

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

While Pfizer admits that theirs is the same, I don't see anything like that from other companies, so trying to figure out the difference. It looks theoretically possible that the three year have more adjuvants, but then giving only part of the adjuvants every year is not healthy either...

I may just have to start contacting companies.

yep that is what i would do and remember the bigger ones like pfizer are investigated more than the mom and pops as my client helps her clients get fda approval in US for international companies and she told me they only have so many inspectors and so they concentrate on the bigger companies as more money - you always follow the money so she told me to never take generic drugs for this reason as that is where most of the problems occur as they cannot check out every company not enough man power

I just posted how fda sent out a warning this week about metronidazole so that was pfizer so they watch the bigger companies alot more closely

also Crystal Jean said it is better to do 1/2 dhpp for tiny dogs than to split the vaccines due to adjuvuncts as we were talking about that 1lb dog a week ago and that was her response to do 1/2 the vaccine not separate it

I think Pfizer admits to it as it has had lawsuits against them for not disclosing properly to pet owners like things such as nsaids and the side effects of it.

But if we think of this logically why would a company make two different vaccines as that is very costly ?

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by dwerten

But if we think of this logically why would a company make two different vaccines as that is very costly ?

A company would make much more money selling the same vaccine with two different lables and if not monitored could easily get away with it. Why would a big company like pfizer who has alot more money than a smaller manufacturer to make two separate vaccines not do it to make more money? Is it because they are more regulated and had to admit to what they were doing?

I believe the 3 year costs more than the one year correct?

[Ellie May]

That was my concern with splitting them. Three times the preservatives and three shots for each round isn't what I'd be doing.

But I also have some reservations about just doing half b/c it takes a certain amount to get an immune response and has nothing to do with the size of the dog. So if it could be split for a small dog, then it should be able to be split for a big dog. While DOI is studied extensively and the research is available to pet owners, some of these other things are not. If she ever does a study or seomthing, I'd love to see it (or any study by a vet school, etc.), but my understanding is still that it can't be split, so I would not take the chance with my dog.

I don't even know all the companies that make rabies vaccines. The ones I'm thinking of are Pfizer and Merial, but Wyeth may make one also. So I guess we could ask them all what the difference is in their 1 and 3 year vaccines.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

That was my concern with splitting them. Three times the preservatives and three shots for each round isn't what I'd be doing.

But I also have some reservations about just doing half b/c it takes a certain amount to get an immune response and has nothing to do with the size of the dog. So if it could be split for a small dog, then it should be able to be split for a big dog. While DOI is studied extensively and the research is available to pet owners, some of these other things are not. If she ever does a study or seomthing, I'd love to see it (or any study by a vet school, etc.), but my understanding is still that it can't be split, so I would not take the chance with my dog.

I don't even know all the companies that make rabies vaccines. The ones I'm thinking of are Pfizer and Merial, but Wyeth may make one also. So I guess we could ask them all what the difference is in their 1 and 3 year vaccines.

sadly I doubt any studies will happen with dhpp as it is an elective vaccine not required and those studies cost a ton of money to do as they are still raising money for rabies challenge to push rabies out to 5 years then 7 years and only doing that study because it is required by law.

Each owner will have to make their own decision on what to do with dhpp. I am comfortable with the one year booster then titering as I saw the reaction after that plumber incident when no vet said to bring my dogs in for dhpp as I have been titering for 5 years now.

I know there is controversy on the vaccine based on size of dog but my gut tells me a dog that is 1lb does not need the same dose as a dog that is 90lb but everyone has to make that choice for their own dog and discuss with vet as well as it is up to the pet owner to question it as the vet will never tell you unless you ask first as they cannot apparently in many practices. Sadly it is up to the pet owner to educate themselves and ask questions.

While I want to believe these studies are never skewed I have a hard time believing they are not if money is involved and the companies that are paying for these studies have a financial gain in them. I prefer independent studies and why i get the whole dog journal as there are no advertisers for that publication so no way to skew things since money is not involved by paid adverstisements like other publications.

It is sad but i always go back to "For the love of money is the root of all evil" so why i question things more now than i use to. I really wish I did not feel this way but after dealing with dogs with health issues it has opened my eyes to alot that goes on.

Many times you see a drug is suppose to help for humans etc and then they come out on tv and say OOPS. There are no guarantees either way sadly.

[dwerten]

also when the studies are done it seems by the poll of 50% for annual vaccinations vets are not following them- why?

Are they not reading the information or just choosing to ignore what the studies show?

Do they not believe the studies are accurate?

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by dwerten

also when the studies are done it seems by the poll of 50% for annual vaccinations vets are not following them- why?

Are they not reading the information or just choosing to ignore what the studies show?

Do they not believe the studies are accurate?

Something else to take into consideration is that most people on YT are very educated. When talking about the general dog owning population, that number of educated people may go way down. So I'm sure it's way more than 50% doing it annually.

A lot of vets that are members of the AAHA will do it every three.
Other than that, a lot of the totally independent ones seem to like every year. It really does have everything to do with what each individual vet thinks. I guess some don't trust the research and there will be some just like teh revenue. And there are stiil some that think if clients are given permission to skip them annually, they won't come in for exams. And others will do what the boss requires.

More owners are becoming aware though which is awesome.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Something else to take into consideration is that most people on YT are very educated. When talking about the general dog owning population, that number of educated people may go way down. So I'm sure it's way more than 50% doing it annually.

A lot of vets that are members of the AAHA will do it every three.
Other than that, a lot of the totally independent ones seem to like every year. It really does have everything to do with what each individual vet thinks. I guess some don't trust the research and there will be some just like teh revenue. And there are stiil some that think if clients are given permission to skip them annually, they won't come in for exams. And others will do what the boss requires.

More owners are becoming aware though which is awesome.

yeah you are so right as people here are wayyyyyy more educated on here which is GREAT. But looks like we need to keep on educating to get those numbers down for healthier dogs. I had no clue of all this stuff 6 years ago and so thankful for yahoogroups as well as YT as at least people can be more informed to better care for their pets and make more informed decisions.

what is wild is on that aaha site there are like 3 vets in my area lollll yet there are a ton of vets and the one on there over vaccinates dogs as he vaccinates for corona and my friend has faithfully gone to him for years and her dog has cancer at the injection site for rabies and she has spent 30k over six months with two surgeries removing it and chemo - very sad so not sure he is following aaha or just using that site to get new clients and he is the one that gave my dog nsaid while on steroids with mvd dog

I am just not so sure that is the best place to get a vet referral anymore sadly after what happened to my dog and my friends dog He does have all the latest equipment though which is why i went to him as he had a digital xray machine

What do these vets have to do to get on that AAHA website anyway as have not read up on that?