I haven't read the whole thread because I'm anxious to ask a couple of questions. Please read my whole post, this is NOT an anti-raw comment in any way.

Every so often, I think about feeding raw, then let it go for a couple of reasons.

If I'm being completely honest, the first reason is the ick factor. I won't cut up a raw chicken for my human family...can't do it without gagging. The thought of chicken heads, feet, whole fish, necks :eek:and other animals parts....ugh. I'm truly a product of the processed food generation:rolleyes:

So, I think I'll end up spending hundreds of dollars a month buying pre-cut meats and then I'll just have to stop, because I certainly can't afford that.

Next, if I get past the ick factor there is the question of how much. I've got big yorkies (13 and 17 lbs give or take) How do I figure out how much to give them. Waiting to see if they are getting fat then cutting back, or if they are getting thin then adding will truly make me a basket case. Is there a guideline or rule of thumb?

If I could get over these couple of hurdles, I would more seriously consider raw. I want to do the best for my furkids and that includes feeding them the best way that I can.

Sorry, if these questions have already been dealt with on here, I'm going back to keep reading.

Poop Report
 

This is awesome news!!!! It always makes me so happy to hear when I hear the stories about how much the dogs like their food and do so well on it!
You mentioned white, crumbly poop; I hope you meant that the poop you found in your yard looked that way, it's not coming OUT that way from the rear of your dogs, is it?

Nadia

My qualms with pesticides
 

Hi and welcome to this thread! I hope you find it informative! We're a happy bunch with happy dogs and one of us is usually around to help answer any questions you might have regarding prey model! :)

Heart Worm Prevention; No offense, but the actual number of occurences of infestations has been grossly inflated by our dear Veterinarians as they receive their data from the pharmaceutical companies, wanting Vets all over the country to push and sell their product. The same is happening with flea and tick prevention. These products are toxic pesticides, not just some harmless sugar pills! Instead of scaring people with close up pictures of worms inside a heart, what about posting pictures of dogs that have been taking these pills for a while? What about long term studies on the effects? Where are these studies???
My 12 year Yorkie boy was given these pesticides every month for about a year and he got so sick on them that I stopped giving it to him because I was afraid that it was killing him! He is still dealing with the effects of that time as he has a pretty severe condition called chronic systemic yeast infection. His immune system shut down and his skin looked like minced meat!
My dog has never had fleas or a heartworm problem and we even lived in Europe for the first 4 years of his life. However, I have a problem with exposing my dogs to doctor prescribed toxins on the premise of prevention. Do we routinely amputate the limbs of little boys around the country because we can guess that at least 10% of these boys will have a fracture at some point? This example might be extreme but you get my point....
There are natural remedies that work very well! These remedies won't kill our dogs, don't cost a fortune and are safe to be around people, too!

Nadia

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Raw Eggs
 

Raw is the way to! That includes eggs.
The first time my dogs had raw egg, one of them vomited as well. But I figured out that one whole egg was just too much for a small dog. By freezing the mixture in small cubes, YOU control the portions. ;)

Nadia

Welcome!
 

Hello and a warm welcome to you! I applaud you for wanting to explore your options!
No need to tip toe around, we actually welcome all opinions and don't crucify opposition. Knowledge is power! No question is stupid! We understand that newbies are nervous! I was a newbie once and I had a mentor to guide me through this all. I had tons of questions! Looking back, I can't believe how nervous I was and how simple this way of feeding really is! It's about dropping all of the pre-programmed stuff in your head and just letting go, putting yourself and your pets back to a natural way of living! Please do all of the reading you can, there are excellent posts on here by all of us and some great learning/info links have been posted as well. Research, read and go into this completely informed and fully confident!
Keep it simple and I promise you, as you go on you will lose the ick factor! Having the help and support from another member in the household/significant other could help as well! When you become a witness to the great changes this diet provokes in your pets, you will actually become excited to find livers, gizzards and heart on sale somewhere! No need to disembowel anything just yet. A pack of simple chicken drumsticks or bone-in breasts from the grocery store is just fine! Too much variety too soon is a mistake many newbies make!
But to answer your question about how much to feed; A dog should consume a daily ration of 2-3% of his perfect weight. Whatever the dog weighs, divided by 2 or 3 percent. That's just a guideline though. I never went by that but it gave me an idea. I know my dogs and how they should look. I also know how much each can and should eat every day. Not because I'm some kind of dog whisperer but because I watched over their progress a lot in the beginning! Poop patrol, weighing them every week, feeling their bodies, watching them walk/run/interact with each other, touching their fur. Remember, a dog can lose or gain weight very fast so the weight watching issue is not the same as that with us humans! If a dog was over weight one week, by cutting back his daily rations a little and walking him more often, by next week he has most likely shed most of that excess flab! A morbidly obese dog or cat will take longer of course. I hope this was a start for you!

Nadia

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I have meaty pork neck bones for Marley tomorrow. Does she eat the bones? They look pretty big. Are these good to give her?

Pork neck bone is too dense for toy breeds imo.

Here is Abigail's approach to PMR. Abbie starring in No-RAW-on-my-paws !

Yeah, it comes out small and light colored and changes to white and crumbly! Sorry for the confusion! All are doing well in the poop department which is good!

Poop
 

Eh, ideally, it should be dark to black when it comes out. Your dogs might be getting too much bone. Have you noticed your dogs straining a bit when they poop? You can try feeding some boneless meat for a meal then the meaty bone for another meal. No worries though, you're not doing anything wrong! In fact it's just the right thing to start out just the way you were doing! Sounds to me like you got the consistency of the poop right already, just have to tweak your dog's diet a little. Remember; 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% organs.

Nadia

Lol
 

Great vid, Ada! Thanks for that one! Wish mine would do that (much cleaner and neater) but nope; they will make use of their feet! Your girl has such long hair! I just wanted to pull my clippers out, lol! But that's because I always snip around on my dogs, hehe :p
Oh, btw.;
Every time I use smiley's on here, I get that problem with that "IMG" on the bottom of my posts!!!! :mad:

On the pork necks; well, my 10 pounder has no problems with chewing it but it's also very fatty and it gave him the runs one too many times so I just don't feed that anymore, which sucks because pork necks are so cheap!!! :(
Other people just don't seem to have that same problem with pork and their dogs at all! I also wanted my dogs to eat rabbit when I heard how much some other dogs seemed to LOVE rabbit! But both of mine have flat out rejected it more than once, had to give it away! :mad:
I haven't tried it on the puppy yet....

Nadia


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Thanks Nadia :). Oh, she was FAR from clean and neat...lol...you should have seen her beard from all the chewing and manipulating to keep her feet clean. "NO!"....she'd much rather it be all over her face! My bad, though, as I did not pull it away, and then I was filming, so just let it go......:confused: Well, is that not just weird?
Yeah...I only feed the lean meat of pork, and the softer bones. Same here! And, for the price of rabbit in the market, I can't say I'm very sorry they don't like it! WE don't even get rabbit. Too pricey for our budget!

Did anyone notice that their dog's eyes got goopier after switching to raw? Marley's eyes were never really goopy, but they are now.

Also, has a list been posted of good raw foods to feed yorkies? I keep buying her the wrong things, and it would be so much easier if I actually knew what some good things were.

Runny Eyes
 

The runny eyes that you're describing are not a side effect of raw feeding but a symptom of detoxing as there are no negative side effects on a species appropriate diet other than maybe constant, pesky myth swatting....
Detox *can* be a somewhat lengthy process if the dog is older and/or has health problems. Detox will sometimes show in the dog's short term behavior as flu like symptoms, runny stools, mucous in stools, temporary flare up in skin problems and things of that nature. My oldest used to have goopy eyes so badly when he was k*bble fed that I could actually pull the muck out of his eyes with my fingers daily! He doesn't have that problem anymore on prey model. But goop is not always just goop. If the eye(s) seems irritated, red, swollen then there's something else going on especially if the dog keeps rubbing it, could be an eye infection! If it's simply just goopy then give your dog some more time to detox! ;)

As far as good things to feed; for most prey model feeders, anything goes! Anything that used to be an animal is considered prey and good to feed to our dogs. Yorkies might be a small toy breed but none the less 100% carnivore but with a smaller bite and appetite. As it proves (most of the time) difficult to locate prey that wolves in the wild usually feast on especially in the whole carcass form, it is more practical for us city dwellers to feed more readily available and cost effective meats commonly found in meat markets, hence the term Prey *Model*.
I'm posting again the "recipes" link;
Raw Feeding Recipes
Click on each item on that list to view pictures of dogs actually eating these things that have been posted.



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...... :biggrin:

Raw feeding changed my dog's lives. My first dog, a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, had colitis and chronic diarrhea until he was six months old. We had tried everything else and at a friend's suggestion, I tried raw (starting with pre-made formulas). The day after eating raw, my dog had his first semi solid poo. Now, his stools are normal, his tummy isn't upset and I am not spending hundreds on vet bills.

My rescue Yorkie Mix was severely malnourished & hypoglycemic when she came home. Her tail was infected, she had a horrible hacking cough and she was MEAN! She also didn't have much hair. I switched to raw and started to see instant improvement. Both the shelter and my vet expected her to die. I credit raw feeding with saving her. She is so healthy now, with a thick, shiny coat.

The detox for both wasn't wonderful, ear/ eye discharge, skin irratation, etc. but now I have the healthiest dogs in my neighborhood. Their coats shine, eyes glisten and are the very definition of vitality!

After switching to raw, it also opened a whole new world of nutritional and holistic knowledge to me and I can feel confident caring for my pets in so many health situations.

Kudos to you for feeding raw! Unfortunately, most people don't realize that k*bble or home cooked is not a natural way of eating for our dogs until health problems appear! I was no exception! So you started on pre made raw; are you feeding prey model now? And how long have your dogs been eating raw?

My chihuahuas fur has completely changed texture now that they switched to raw!! They are much softer and silkier!! I haven't noticed that much of a change for the Yorkies. Why would their coats change?

I use the pre-made and add in raw parts and organs throughout the week, so they can get their chomp on! I am a little unsure on how to proceed to moving all the way to prey model, though I want to. Its so much less expensive and even healthier then pre-made. I do use Primal Brand for pre-made as they are organic, antibiotic and hormone free.

I have been reading the Billinghurst book, Give Your Dog a Bone.

I believe that raw is the natural, healthy way to feed dogs. As small as a Yorkie is, his digestive system is identical to that of a wolf!

My Cavalier has been eating raw since September '07 (He was born April '07) and my Yorkie mix has been eating raw since I got her in February when she was between 3-4 months. Raw feeding opened me up to a whole new lifestyle, for both me and my dogs. I stopped using pesticides on them (flea/tick preventative) and have no flea problems, even though I live in South Florida.

I am only doing ltd.vaccines, I almost never use antibiotics (after my Ella Bean's spay, I gave her some oil of oregano, a natural antibiotic instead). I found a moderate vet who promotes raw feeding and uses holistic principles.

I use Soil Based Organism probiotics for my Cavalier's yeasty ears, calendula on any cuts, etc. I have learned by watching my husband and my childhood dogs die unpleasant, painful deaths that altering a carnivores natural state too much results in shorter lifespan, inflammation and suppressed immune system.

Through watching my dog's vitality blossom, I was inspired to apply similar principles to my own life, ie. eating whole foods and using supplements under the direction of an herbalist.

It is the truth, we are what we eat. Our pets are exposed to as many horrible toxins as we are and for both human and canine, the only way to undo this toxic state & avoid disease is through diet.

Could you tell me what kind of probiotic you use, because one of my Yorkies has yeasty ears and I tried a probiotic but the one I used didn't work!! Thanks!

Sure! Its called PetFlora and its available here:
Pet Health Care - Natural Remedies For Your Cats & Dogs
And here is an article I wrote about it:
PetFlora, Holistic Digestion Aid | CupOFdog | Dog Site for Dog People

Pet Flora is much stronger in dogs then a traditional probiotic as it utilizes soil based organisms, much like our dogs would get were they to be happily feasting on a fresh kill off the ground. These organisms are therefore more easily utilized by our doggie's digestive systems. I have had exceptional luck using Pet Flora and I know plenty of other dog owners who have had great results.

If your dog is really yeasty, you may want to consider giving some Zymox rinses in order to attack the current situation...

Thanks so much for the probiotic info, I'm going to order some!!
Mindy just has yeast in her ears and they are chronic so it is harder to treat, she has Cushing's disease so it is one of the side effects! Thanks again!
By the way, switching to raw has helped one of her ears get better but her other ear is still bad so hopefully this probiotic will clear it all up!!

I am so sorry to hear Mindy has Cushing's - but glad that the raw is helping! This probiotic has been invaluable to me. Besides my Yorkie mix, I have a Cavalier with floppy ears. I call his ears "the yeast factory." He also has chronic yeasty ear infections, b/c of humidity getting trapped in there.

Another thing that really helped him was the homeopathic remedy Thuja, but I would consult with a veterinary homeopath before administering any remedies, especially since Mindy has Cushing's. If you are interested, my homeopath does do phone and email consults (check out www.naturalholistic.com). He is a genius. He was the president of the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association for many years, studied with Dr. Pitcarin and is just an all around wonderful man.

I can not tell you what a difference PetFlora has made for Louis! Let me know how it works for Mindy!

Because their hair follicles are actually being nourished, now. Notice they smell better, too, and when you pet them, they don't feel as dirty? All benefits of a species-appropriate diet. Watch for a pleasant change in the yorkies, too :)

I think my dogs became friendlier and easier to train as well! Its amazing what a nourished brain can do!:p

I'm interested in adding fish to my babies raw diet. Has anyone done this? If so, what type of fish? Obviously, I'd have to check for and remove any bones prior to feeding them.

I was thinking of trying salmon first to see if they like it. What other fish can I try?

Prey Model Fish
 

Fish? Absolutely! This cuts down on fish oil capsule supplements! Here's a link to the Environmental Defense Fund's website where you can check out which fish has high/low mercury levels and there's also a list of best and complete fish oil capsule brands;
Find a Fish - Seafood Selector - Environmental Defense Fund

As with all prey model foods, the raw, WHOLE form is best to feed, no need to debone/gut the fish! I feed fish all the time (about once a week) as my hubby and son go fishing every Sunday. I take the whole fish, the way it was caught and toss it to my pack of 3 so they can go to town on it as a team! If you want to feed salmon, I would stick with wild Alaskan salmon, but make sure to freeze it for a week or so first! Tilapia is available to me cheap, so I feed that often! Farmed Trout is a good choice as well. Atlantic Herring and often on sale; shrimp! But before you go out and stock up on seafood sales; some dogs take a while to like fish and might straight out refuse it for the fist couple of times! You can try and get your dogs used to the smell/flavor by buying some freeze dried salmon treats. I like this brand:
http://olivegreendog.com/wild-salmon...-pr-16497.html

Here's another link to questions regarding fish feeding:
Feeding fish to your dogs and cats

The fish idea is interesting and maybe it's because I am frequently up at the lake. Does it depend on the kind of fish? My kids are always catching small sunfish and perch. Would they be all right to feed my dogs are would you only feed something you would eat yourself. I mean, the sunfish are not typically too large and by the time you cleaned them, there would not be a whole lot of meat left and I'm also not sure how good sunnies are.

On a different note.... I've been feeding the girls chicken and pork so far. I'm looking for some lamb but haven't been able to find it reasonable priced. Anyways, my collies teeth are looking a lot better already but I'm just wondering what would be the absolute best thing to feed her to help with her teeth or am I doing ok with what I feed? My goal is for the vet to tell me her teeth look good as last year, they said that they wanted me to start thinking about having her put under for a teeth cleaning.

Finally, I know some people have talked about tripe, not sure if that's good for the teeth or not. And if you buy tripe at the grocery store, is that ok or are there different kinds of tripe?

Thanks! I love this thread!

Have you caught the post about fish above yours? In general, any kind of fish is ok to feed but it's best to avoid heavy mercury laden fish!

Yes, lamb is expensive and even on sale it's still around 4 dollars per pound so I only feed that sometimes. What you're doing is exactly right for scrubbing those teeth. A more dense bone will not help the process along but could actually chip a tooth! *Horribly diseased* teeth and gums will take about 3-6 months of prey model feeding to look good so give your dog some time!
Fresh tripe looks like a furry, green/brown blanket and does nothing for teeth cleaning but is indeed very good to feed to our dogs! Green, unbleached tripe is the only kind that has nutritional value and it's against the law to sell it this way for human consumption. So what you're seeing at your grocery store is bleached, cleaned and processed tripe. Unless you have access to a slaughterhouse or local farmer, you will have to order green tripe online. My local raw food coop sells this and while I don't purchase anything else from them, tripe is what I do buy and one of the only things that I will feed ground. I found out about my coop by joining the raw feeders supplier's list on yahoo groups. Here are some online places you can order from:
GreenTripe.Com Main Index

Hare Today, Gone Tommorow

Prey 4 Pets Product List

Skinny Minis Eating Raw
 

As a raw feeder, I wanted to mention how wonderful it is to have such lean, healthy, little beasts, as my babies are.

The lean body type that a raw diet provides seems to be shocking to certain non-raw feeders. I can not tell you how often I am stopped by someone while walking my dogs and they tell me my Cavalier King Charles is too skinny. (My Yorkie Mix has a nice cobby little body, so its not as exaggerated on her.)

I have actually been told my Louis looks anorexic. :eek: How rude!!!! I would like to tell them that this is actually what a healthy dog looks like, nice and lean. Not like your overweight pooch whom you are killing with too much food! Of course I would never say that.:mad:

He is about 9 1/2 pounds and eats 4 nuggets of Primal a day. I also add in canned tripe. He is happy as a clam and healthy as can be! My fellow raw feeders and I know that obesity is so, so, so unhealthy for our pets and the cause of too many early deaths.

Here are some photos of my lil' man in action at the park, so you can see how handsome and NOT anorexic he is (and one of him snuggling with Ella Bean, of course)

Raw feeding creates a wonderful, lean, muscular body with thick shiny coats. I wish more people knew what a healthy dog is supposed to look like!

OMG, yes!

If they were malnourished they would not have the energy they do----- all those pudge-a-fied pooches can't keep up with ours.

It is also amazing to not have fat cats-----sleek felines like those in the wild is what I have now.