I'm pretty new to raw too. My dogs love gizzards and hearts but I try not to give too much. One or two every other day or so. Everything I feed comes from the grocery store. Chicken breast with the bone in, drumsticks, pork, chicken feet and livers are what I've tried so far and they have done very well with it and seem to enjoy it. I'm trying to get some lamb and I also want to try fish soon as well. My collies teeth improve each day! Good luck and I hope others will post as well!

Beef is pretty strong to start with. Also, what was the fat ratio? IF you feed ground (not really a good idea) it should be LEAN. High fat content can cause tummy upset.

It was the Urban Carnivore patties, so I'm not really sure. The website says they're finely ground whole beef carcass. She had been on the chicken for a little over a week, and had virtually no problems, so I thought I would try it, but I guess it was too soon. She didn't even want to touch the beef after that first experience with it, so I got her some more of the chicken patties, she loves them. She also loves the chicken necks, so hopefully she'll like the turkey necks too. Not sure how she'll feel about the hearts or gizzards.

I sort of want to move her away from the patties a bit, as they're so expensive, and more to things from the grocery store. Are chicken wings good to give bone and all? I wasn't really sure what to get her, but I remembered reading about gizzards and hearts. What other meats are good to introduce to her?

Chicken wings are not the best as there is not much meat and a lot of bone. But I do frequently give Zoe drumsticks. Zoe absolutely loves chicken hearts. They would be an awesome training treat if they weren't so slimy. :p She likes gizzards too. Sometimes I have given her a bone in chicken breast but she would never eat that whole thing in one sitting. I have even cut a piece of our boneless chicken that we were having for dinner and I've given her that and she really likes it. I personally stayed with chicken for a week or so and then introduced pork and that's as far as I've gotten (it's been about 3 weeks). I plan to continue trying something new everyweek or so.

I started raw over 12 days ago and 3 of my dogs, the smallest ones, have nice small poops. But my 2 bigger dogs, 10 lbs, still have very slimy stinky poops. Are they still detoxing after 12 days? They have both been eating chicken drumsticks, thighs and breasts.

.......:thumbup: Same thing with chicken necks. No appreciable meat, and too much skin. LOL...don't ya love the non-commitment, here? "Whole beef carcass" could/probably does include hide, hair, whatever. No wonder she didn't want another experience with it. :thumbup:....sounds like a PLAN. At least buy from a source that you're sure what is in the product. Also, ground may seem like the safer route; but, actually, it may encourage a gobbler to eat more quickly, thereby being more prone to choking. Best to get whole meats that they have to work at.Turkey (not necessarily necks or wings), pork, fish, lamb. Then, later....beef, rabbit, quail, goat....anything a carnivore would eat.

Thanks so much everyone for all the great information. Thinking back, I probably shouldn't have broken up the turkey necks into smaller pieces...I'm afraid she might choke now. Do you think she could eat a whole turkey neck? Would that be a full meal? She's about 9 pounds. I'm confused how much to feed when it's not the patties. If you give them something large, and they don't finish it, do you just put it back in the fridge?

I'm not going to trust the person at the pet store again, she told me to buy the chicken necks. I still have a lot left, are the ok to keep giving until they're gone? Also, are the raw bones on everything I can buy ok to eat? That concept still doesn't seem right to me as we're always told no bones (which I know is the cooked ones).

I want to keep her on the raw, and then when she goes in for her next checkup, see how the vet thinks she looks, without telling her what she eats. She's against raw, so I want her to give me an unbiased opinion.

What's up with the poop?
 

Depends. How old are the bigger dogs? Assuming they were fed kibble all of their lives. The older the dog and the longer he has been exposed to the wrong diet and over-vaccinations, the longer it will take for the detox to level off. My 12 year old male (chronic systemic yeast infection) is so severely damaged that he still experiences bouts of flare ups. Meaning, he's STILL expelling his yeast toxins through his skin even after 1.5 years of raw eating and non vaccinating! But those flare ups are becoming shorter lived and are getting further in between.
"Poop patrol" is very important during the first stages of switching until all dogs have eaten everything off the "menu" and you know how each reacts. A friend of mine got her Rottweiler puppy a month ago at 7 weeks old and this dog had diarrhea for two full weeks on prey model until it was discovered that she had coccodia coming from the breeder already. But before we assume anything, implement the "tweaking" that you may have heard about in prey model circles. Meaning, you need to experiment with different approaches as all dogs are different. For example; My senior yorkie gets stopped up if he gets too much bone so I add more organ and boneless meats to his diet. My second yorkie vomits and gets the poops if she eats too much chicken skin so I take some of it off for her. My puppy LOVES tripe but if she gets too much of that.... oh boy, out come the latex gloves :eek:! All of my dogs get stinky gas and pudding poops on pork so I make sure I only feed them lean pork cuts or the bone alone to supplement with boneless whatever pieces.
The food you're listing here sounds all great, but are they consuming all of the bones as well? Are you adding any organ meats at all yet or anything else? You might want to try removing the chicken skin for the lose stool dogs and if that doesn't firm things up for them then it might be time to go the Vet with stool samples for a fecal on worms/parasites. But before we jump to conclusions, have your dogs recently been vaccinated at all or de-wormed? Heartworm pills? Flea/tick prevention? All of those things can interfere with a dog's digestive system and are in my opinion and experience counter productive to what we're trying to achieve as raw feeders; healthy dogs! :)

Nadia

Back and Necks are marketed by BARFER's
 

The bones are a MUST HAVE for our carnivores. Dogs do not thrive on meat alone but need to have bones included in their diet, alongside organ meats.
80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs is the preferred ratio of prey model feeding. If not for bone, where else would your dog get his/her needed calcium from? Cooked bones are bad, raw bones are good! Of course the ratios can vary a little, depending on the dog's particular needs. You needn't toss out your chicken necks but as it has been mentioned before, fed ALONE, not a very good meal as neck bones offer little meat with too much bone and skin. A turkey neck for example is rather large so I don't think a yorkie can consume it all in one sitting. You can split it into more size appropriate pieces (always aim for bigger than the dog's mouth) but I would not feed that alone. You will need to add more meat to the next meal if your dog only had the neck at a previous meal. If you feed the necks for breakfast, then feed a boneless cut of chicken or turkey at dinner. Whatever you dog cannot consume at one sitting, you put back in the fridge for the next meal. You're dog will let you know if he's still hungry. If she gets too fat, cut back the rations if she looks too skinny then feed her more. You want to be able to feel a dog's ribs, NOT see them! Weigh your dog every couple of days if you'd like so you can gauge this better.
Take your time and read through all of the previous posts. The "how much to feed" has been addressed several times and is discussed in great detail for different weights. Stay away from weight bearing bones that came from large ungulates; pretty much all beef bones are too hard and might chip a dog's teeth except for certain ribs. All poultry bones, pork bones, lamb bones; all ok to give! ;) (I'm probably forgetting something to mention, but you get the idea)
Go to your local grocery store/meat market/butcher and see what they have on sale for under or around $1 per pound. That's how prey model is done. No need to buy any *specially packaged for pets* bones at the Pet Store! :rolleyes:

Nadia


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My bigger dogs are Mindy, 12 years old and Cushings' disease, yeasty ears and Booboo, 7 yrs old and good health. Both dogs were on Innova kibble before this and homecooking. Both of them only get Rabies shots every 3 years, no other vaccines or heartworm or flea medicine, no other meds. I have been taking the skin off for all the dogs right now and both Mindy and Booboo have been eating all the bone in their nightly meals. I guess I just have to wait it out. They are not having any blood in their stools, just mucousy poop so maybe their systems have more to detox! Thanks for the advice and guidance, I appreciate it!!

You can (I do) even refreeze it. This practice not advisable for your family, of course; but, dogs are not people :D

Quick update.

The cats are catching on, slowly, but they're getting there.

The dogs are both doing fab and they're teeth are so sparkling, not even funny!

I finally stopped obsessing over the raw boogies----for goddess sake: I handle raw meat every night for our dinners!!

DOH

I also stopped mopping up Milos face, about a week ago and guess what?

We're all still alive!!!:p

I have been feeding raw chicken legs, gizzards and livers for the last 2 weeks. They are doing great. I tried pork necks today but so far they haven't touched it.

Progress report
 

That's a great update! I'm so happy to hear another success story on prey model! My friend has switched her cats to raw and all three of them went on hunger strike for 2 full days before they finally ate it. ;)
After doing this for a while, everybody eventually stops obsessing over the handling of the meats! I was no exception in the beginning and used to run myself ragged trying to keep the dogs "sanitized", lol. Now it's just a natural part of every day life for us.

I saw my neighbors unload a bag of supermarket k*bble from their truck the other day and I couldn't help but feel sorry for the poor dogs that will have to eat that! :(
I'm hoping that the "what food are you feeding" conversation will come up with them at some point!


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Love the swicth stories!
 

Great! Please apologize if I missed this but I think you're new to this thread!? If you are, then glad to see yet somebody else making the switch for a species appropriate diet!!! :D
Sometimes dogs will refuse a certain type of meat if they're new to it. Just keep offering it and as always, with each new protein source, watch out for the poop. Fatty pork causes gas and runny poops in my oldest dog but many other dogs don't seem affected. ;)

Nadia

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Asking for an update
 

I was wondering about your dogs that have had mucous in their stools. How are they doing now?

Nadia

Ok, I bought pork hocks one day and thought they might be good for the dogs. But then someone told me they were too fatty and not a good choice but I hate to just throw them out. Could I feed them with something else that would sort of counteract? Or should I just throw them out? Also, they are pretty big and my yorkie would never eat the whole thing in one sitting but my collie would, just thought I should add that.
Any advice?

This is the second day of trying the pork necks. They still wont' touch them. Should I try something different. So far all they want is the chicken. They must be very hungry. I did not even give them treats yesterday. How long should I hold out. Jack is only 3.5 lbs and Mia is 1.5 lbs. They are still running around playing but I am starting to get worried.

Betty

To Hock Or Not to Hock
 

I wouldn't throw the hock out just yet....

Pork hocks are cut from the hind or front leg of the pig and since it's a "working muscle" the meat is very tough, therefore requires extensive cooking for human consumption and it is sort of fatty but so is most pork anyways. Have you fed pork to any of your dogs before? How was the poop afterwards?
In my situation, even if my oldest had just a little fatty pork, he gets gas and globby poops regardless even if that wasn't his only meal that day and the only way I can counteract that is to not feed pork again for a few days but chicken bones instead, until things are firmed back up again. Most other dogs can handle pork just fine though.
You can let your dogs just chew on the hock for a little while and then replace it with chicken RBM's. Or feed the hock at one meal then something not pork related at dinner. Then take the "and now we wait and see" approach. Worst case scenario: runny poops and gas for a day but it won't kill the dogs. Feeding new things can be scary!
Please provide an update if you decide to feed the hocks anyways! :)

Nadia

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Hunger Strike
 

Sometimes the "eat that or starve" approach is not practical with small dogs as there could be low blood sugar issues. My 7 month old weighs 24 ounces and she needs to eat at least 3 times a day! Some dogs never take to certain types of meat, mine won't touch rabbit for example but hope is not yet lost in your case. Let your dogs have their chicken, but take it away before the half way mark and replace the chicken with the pork necks. Sometimes during a feeding frenzy, dogs won't even notice the difference and just eat whatever is in front of them. Either way, your dogs should eat *something* right now! You can re-freeze any meat and try again at a later time to re-feed.

Nadia

I was talking to someone who has a therapy dog today, and I mentioned that I was feeding a raw diet. She said that she could never consider this for her therapy dog, as it works with children, and her vet told her that it would transfer e coli to them from her beard or kisses or something I suppose. I told her that many vets are against raw diets, so their opinion is likely biased. Do you think that there's any truth to this? I've heard that it doesn't transfer through saliva, but what about beards?

Myths that just won't die
 

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/1992924-post178.html

Bacteria
 

The bacteria scare mongering is usually the first line of defense for adversaries to raw. My response to this usually is that unless somebody is a Microbiologist, most people (that includes Vets) just don't have a clue about "germs". I did my research, how come a Vet can't do the same???? E.coli is a bacterium that lives in the lower intestine and really has NOTHING to do with raw meats. How do people get it? By NOT washing their hands after using the bathroom. Walking around the house, touching things, E.coli can be found on door knobs, telephones, all over the kitchen, shaking the hands of that "Dirty Bird" person. Even if you keep your bathroom very clean, flushing an open toilet sprays these germs all over your bathroom, toothbrushes, anything exposed.
That's why WE have an immune system to deal with the daily onslaught of germs against our body. Every dog and cat licks his/her privates but we never stop and think about that whenever our pets come over and give us kisses and frankly I find it really strange when a raw fed dog is treated as a health hazard when a k*bble fed and overly vaccinated dog with a weakened immune system is so much more vulnerable to attract all sorts of diseases that could pose dangers to its humans. What about the average k*bble eating gingivitis ridden dog that licks his handler? I'll take my dog's healthy gums and teeth over a k*bble fed dog's tartar mouth any day!

Salmonella is a bacteria as well, commonly found in raw poultry and raw eggs, all things we prey model feeder give our dogs to eat. I don't let my dogs kiss/lick me in or on my mouth or nasal cavities. But that has nothing to do with them being raw fed but rather that I just don't like it and find it gross and since they know this and have been trained not to lick people there, they won't and just leave it to other more acceptable parts, lol.
I have read plenty of articles about dog food recalls due to salmonella so it's not just a RAW specific agenda!

Nadia

...:thumbup:....:thumbup: As would I!......Like this one!

Salmonella Outbreak from Dry Doog Food!!!!!!
 

Great Link! Thanks, Ada!

My pack got some beef kidney this morning and that pungent urine smell is still lingering in my nose, lol. Needless to say that I don't feed this often. I honestly think that I prefer the tripe smell now, rofl.


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Freezing Eggs!
 

Good Saturday to All Prey Modeler's!

Just wanted to pass on a nice discovery and just in case you're not already doing it, you CAN freeze eggs!
I had gotten a good deal on a rather large amount of eggs from free range, pasture grazing hens and I was trying to figure out how to make them last longer. I cracked the eggs and including the shells, put them in my kitchen blender. I spooned the mixture in silicone ice cube trays. As soon as they were frozen solid, I just popped them out and into a freezer bag. Now, whenever I want to feed egg, I just take out one cube per dog. Egg thaws fast so they're able to lick it up out of their bowls!

Nadia

Thanks for checking back with me Nadia!! They are doing well now!! For the last 2 days or so, all the poops are small and white and crumbly, just like they should be!! I went away for a day and my hubbie fed them NV while I was gone, which they wolfed down but when I came back and gave them some chicken breast with bone in, you should have seen them!! It was like "Yes, I get my meat with bone!!" The most amazing thing is still my 3 lb. chi who is like a little tiger!! She steals others meat if they walk off and get a drink of water!! It's so cute! My hubbie is starting to see how much they like it and he might be coming around to it! Thanks again for all the info!!

heartworm preventative
 

Huh? What's miserable and deadly about heartworm preventative? Getting heartworms is what's miserable and deadly.

eeeeewwwwwww! Thanks, Nadia, for the heads-up on that one! That's a bullet I will definitely dodge. I think we can live without kidney.

Good idea on the egg. Mine won't touch them; but, maybe frozen for the summer, they will. Also, this might be a good travel tip, if they could be kept frozen.

That's a good idea. I gave Marley and my golden some scrambled eggs last week because I couldn't seem to find a definitive answer about raw eggs and salmonella and what not. I take it raw eggs are alright to give?
When I gave her the scrambled eggs, they made her sick, and I'm guessing it was just the change.