Thank you!!!:D

My "anorexic" dog tears around the park chasing birds and tennis balls while the overweight dogs lay in the shade, panting! My Ella Bean at 2 1/2 lbs can run faster (and often does) then her much larger (heavier) counterparts.

And kudos on the sleek cats. There isn't anything more beautiful then a sleek, lean cat leaping up onto some high place. We have come to accept fat cats and pudgy pups as the norm!!

Especially the fat cats!

My son's lab came back to use from his dad's overweight and in such a poor way back at the end of March.

He is 14 and that weight would've shortened his time here for sure.

He looks 5 years younger now. His cloudy eyes cleared up and his stiffness is non existant now.

I do wonder why more pet owners don't do this to save their pets, in light of the availability of pre-packaged raw diets, the cheapness of buying raw parts or belonging to a meat co-op. The information is readily available on the internet and so are the products!

Too often I hear tales of dogs being euthanized from "incurable" conditions that a raw diet and detoxification would temper...

Oh def!

I recently started using diapers on the lab. Meds stopped working to contain his leakiness and my son, (the lab is his) said the other night, "Thanks for being willing to do the extra work with the diapers mom(I'm using cloth diapers) most people would just put him down instead.

He's right, so many treat pets like disposible conveinences.:eek:

I love that your son thanked you!! Too often good deeds go unthanked. Poor leaky lab! Have you tried or heard of BandiBoos? they are also cloth, but just go around the belly and they catch anything plus they come in cute colors and have tough boy designs on them!

Sorry, I know thats not related much to this thread.:angel:

Not heard of those but you can see a pic of Zack in his wrap that I posted here:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/my-...per-sized.html

Awww, poor baby! But at least he doesn't look unhappy in his big boy diapers! Man, makes me wonder what all will be in store for my dog and me in the future, he's 12 already..... really puts things in perspective! I'm with you; as long as it's not life threatening, I'm against long term meds as well. We may not be able to fully return the old guys back to where they should've been (health wise) but at least their twilight years will be spent more comfortable and our current, younger babies will not have to suffer through the same illnesses as wrong diet will undoubtedly bring!

Hi
 

Hi guys, Im new to Raw. I started out posting about my dogs skin issues. Got great response that lead me to do my research on systemic yeast infection. I found Raw is the best way to go for my guy. We started June 3rd. I didnt realize until after reading many of these posts on the PMD thread, that you should feed only one type of food for the first few weeks. Well I bought Drumettes, Beef heart, Boneless pork, Ground turkey and beef. I putt all of this in little meals in baggies and froze them. So he gets a little bit of each every day. So far no nasty poop. He loves his food. I have been having a hard time deciding how much to feed. Each bag weights about 4-5 oz. I came across several sites that said you should feed about 2-3 % of body weight. He weight 6.6 lbs. That would be 0.18 oz a day?? That seems like nothing. I was giving him the entire 4-5 oz bag twice a day. This morning I cut it down to half of that bag and I will give the rest this evening. As far as changes I have noticed..... He doesnt mope around the house. I know when he doesnt feel good, he mopes. when hes mad he mopes and he also poops right behind where im standing so I will step in it. He is so vengeful. lol But that only happens when he is really mad. which isnt very often. He has more energy, is more excited. The itching hasnt stopped but it seems to have slowed down alot. The bad breath isnt as bad but his smelly skin is still there. Its only been a few days. Only time will tell. My other dogs are on K*bble. Only because they havent had any problems. I have a Rottwieler, Carrin terrier mix, female yorkie, my sick male and a female yorkie pup from there last and final litter. My female yorkie has very thick course hair and has never grown. She is almost three and her hair is so short. Now the female puppy I kept from their litter is gorgeous. Her pic is the one I have on here. She is going to look like her dad. She is 5 months and weights three pounds. Her hair is so diff from her daddy's too. His was curly and wavy and never really laid down. Gidgets (the puppy) is not as thin as his was but not thick like moms and lays straight down to her sides. Strange that two diff yorkies coats can make suck a gorgeous coat. If she begins to have trouble I will put her on the diet as well. I cant afford to do all of the right now, even tho I would love to. I hope I havent rambled I tend to do that..

I love the first website and I've seen it before but the shipping is just way too expensive. But THANK YOU so much for posting the Prey 4 Pets website because the shipping is much more reasonable!! I just placed an order!!!

THANK YOU! :D

Welcome!!!!
 

So nice to find you here! I'm happy to hear that you have taken an interest in this thread and are reading much info. The 2-3 % feeding guideline is just a starter figure and I never went by that. Most people know their dogs and how much they should eat. Also, us people with small dogs feed at least 2 times a day so that makes it easier to eyeball as well! I have a female that weighs 5 1/2 pounds and she eats half of a chicken drumstick at one sitting and the rest of it at another sitting. My 10 pounder eats the entire drumstick at one sitting. My 1 1/2 pound girl eats the equivalent of half a chicken wing at one sitting. I feed my dogs 3 times day, the little one eats 4 times a day. Breakfast is raw meaty bones, lunch is organ meats and/or eggs, snack for the little one is a little boneless meat and dinner consists of raw meaty bones again. Don't waste your money on the ground meats. You live in Texas, right? Most places nowadays have Ethnic grocery stores and places with a large latin population have stores with an awesome variety of meats you won't find anywhere else and cheap as well! Here in Arizona I shop for my dog's meats at Food City, Fry's Mercado, El Super and Rancher's Market grocery store where I watch for meat sales. I regularly score on chicken and turkey for less than 60 cents per pound! I feed about 15-20 pounds of food per month between 3 dogs and I never spend more than $20 per month, if that much!

The skin issues were not made overnight and they won't get better overnight. Systemic yeast infection is a stubborn and hard egg to crack. The right diet is a start but you will have to treat the skin as well! The Chlorhexiderm shampoo is a bit pricey, but it's given me great results! What also works is Selsun Blue shampoo followed by the baking soda rinse. You will have to wash your dog several times a week, as your dog is detoxing, the emerging dying yeast toxins need to be killed off with the antibacterial/anti fungal agents in the skin treatments. Vinegar is a great, cheap and non-toxic way to counteract the yeast. I used to make a diluted vinegar ear wash for my dog. I was carefully swabbing all over the ear and then wiped the flap to remove the yeast with cotton balls. During the more severe stages of detox I would also use that diluted vinegar solution to spray my dog's body down several times a day. I also kept his hair cut to a skin close shave so I could monitor his outbreaks better and so the topical treatments could seap in better. After each shave down, I would re-bathe my dog and then applied 100% pure Aloe Vera gel. It smells pleasant, is non-toxic not sticky and it soothed his skin! I would suggest to go as natural as possible, avoiding any harsh chemicals! During that time, I also started using an organic, non-chemical dish washing soap for cleaning the food and water bowls which are ceramic bowls that have been made in the USA and glazed with non-toxic materials. I also looked at his bedding and toys etc. I am now using all organic cotton bedding/blankets and stopped buying toys from China. I make sure that his toys are either un-dyed or that natural vegetable based dye was used. Basicially, I went over everything in my house that he could get in touch with, taste, smell etc. So one day I realized that my floor cleaner was toxic as well! I now use things like vinegar, hydrogen peroxide, grapefruit oil, baking soda and Castile Liquid soap to clean my house with! I was sceptical at first because my shiny wood floors are my pride and joy but I can honestly say that they look just as beautiful if not better by using these natural products instead! I also only use a natural/chemical free laundry soap for my dog's bedding and toys! I know this all sounds nuts and incredibly neurotic, but I found that this really not only helped my dogs but my human family as well as both my husband and my son have allergies and dry skin! And I save money in the process by not having to buy expensive cleaning products! After all, these are all things that our grandmothers used to clean with and back then things and foods just weren't as polluted as they are today! ;)
Keep us posted on your dog's progress!
LOL, you have found somebody to ramble with in me, I guess!!! Ha Ha Ha :D


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Where to find green tripe?
 

My pleasure, you're very welcome! There might be a few more online raw suppliers, please add on to the list if anybody knows any!!!
I hear ya about the shipping $$$! :mad:
What I do sometimes is that I split the shipping cost with a few other people that feed raw as well and we submit a group order.

Hi
 

HI, its been awhile.
Chewy is doing better. I have been bathing him with baking soda and spraying with a vinager mix as instructed. He still claws and scrathes his arm pits and chest area. I have to keep little booties on him so he doesnt get all bloody. The smelly sores on his back are going away. The skin still seems so dry and tough. You know the elephant skin thing, and where he scratches, when it heals its turning black. Will this ever go away? Will his back always look like hes part elephant? lol. He doesnt smell at all any more unless he has a flare up. He no longer has itchy, watery eyes. His bad breath and dirty teeth are gone. I cant believe how clean they are. I am keeping him shaved to be able to get the baking soda and vinegar on the skin but he is scratching alot less. Used to he would only scratch his back end by his tail and as much of his back he could get (mainly it was all he could reach). He hasnt been scratching that anymore, its just chest and arm pits and under his ears. Maybe some one whos been thru this can let me know if this is a sign of major improvement. I see that it is. His back was so bad he chewed himself bald. Now the hair is growing so fast I am shaving all the time. didnt have to before. lol.

Improvements
 

Hi! Yes, it has been a while and I couldn't believe just now that somebody actually still posts here (very old thread, lol) But I remember you and I'm the one who has a dog who has been going through the same exact issues as your dog! Improvement sure is fast but a COMPLETE turn around will take a LONG time! It took my dog over a year and he still has a little bit of elephant skin on his belly and *some* black spots but he doesn't scratch or bite himself anymore. My best guess is that this might be permanent skin tissue damage, but I have no scientific proof of this, just my own observations.... I know that expelling the yeast and rebuilding a normal, healthy immune system is very time consuming as the dog has to heal himself from the inside out and flare ups are typical. You're doing all of right things! You can soothe the dry skin (especially after a shave down) with 100% pure aloe vera gel. I have the Panama Jack brand but there are many good ones out there. I would also start to cut back on the baking soda washes as baking soda acts as a mild abrasive and oil stripper. It's a fantastic, natural way to rid the skin of the emerging toxins but it can be a bit harsh on the skin as well. Also be sure that the daily spray down vinegar/water solution truly is mild as vinegar can irritate if made too pure! Have you purchased the Chlorhexiderm Max 4% shampoo? I have tried so many different ones, but this shampoo REALLY helped my dog and what I did was bathe my dog every 2-3 days with this shampoo and once a week I bathed him with baking soda mixed with tea tree oil in castile liquid soap. Yes, the armpit and chest/belly area is THE spot for itching from the yeast. Also the groin/privates areas so they're the last, stubborn areas on my dog as well! I suspect that your dog still experiences yeasty ears (as did my own dog) so make sure you frequently swab those out with the vinegar solution. DON'T pour it into the ear canal, just douse two Q tips with the vingear solution and gently swab out the entire outer ear canal area and don't forget the ear flap (cotton ball). Yeast's best friend is warm moisture, so I blow dried my dog after a bath and dried his ears good as well, followed by ear cleaning!
Hang in there! A yeasty dog's detox is a long, frustrating process and set backs are common as well! It truly is a battle but by doing all of the previously discussed things for your dog, he WILL get better, little by little!
Keep us posted!

ok, ok, I am here.....

I have read up to page 5 and I will continue to read later..I just had to share how excited I am!

I started TJ and Roxy on pre-made last year, they were on it for 6 months and literally a few days before I was about to feed them their first organic chix drumstix, I got their first BAT results back...not good :eek:

So that was the end of Raw :(

It has been 1 year later...Roxy most likely has MVD, she is currently on a home made meal where she get her protein from cottage cheese and eggs. TJ was eating the same thing, but since his first BAT was only a little high and then came back down to normal, I would give him more protein in the form of chicken (cooked). I have since contacted a nutritionist who has balanced the diet I was feeding, but I think with the added supplements, TJ is not happy, he was always a bratty eater and now it is bad again.

So, today I have seriously considered starting TJ on Raw again, as he LOVED it last year.

My brain however is so filled right now with what I needed to do for liver compromised dogs, that I need some time to think again about Raw and such....So, I think I am going to start TJ on the premade again for a couple of months until I can think straight :rolleyes:

I may even let Roxy have a chix drumstix everyone once and a while, when I get to that point with TJ, as I think she can benefit from the 'ripping and eating the bone' - I wish I could put her back on Raw totally, but I am so fearful of her MVD, although she shows no symptoms, I am so scared :(

Any pointers right now is appreciated....

Still not eating!
 

OK, this is morning 2. Have tried hand feeding a meaty bone. Have tried feeding small pieces of meat. He still will not eat. I have had a couple of responses and trying these suggestions. I may just be a worry wart, but my family is making me feel guilty for Nolee not eating.

I haven't read through every post yet so forgive me if this has been addressed already. :) Heart is considered a muscle meat for animals. I feed beef heart almost every day for my 5 dogs. Trust me, it it were organ meat, we would be spending each day, all day outside with runny poop! :cool: They love it! Well, one of the Yorkies is still acquiring a taste for it. :D

My Dane boy that I adopted at 2-1/2 was raised on awful food. :( I started him on raw the day I brought him home. He didn't want to eat so I just kept giving the food to him but he really didn't know what to do with it.

After time passed, I finally gave him some ground meat (raw). He snarfed it down. He ate that for a couple of days and then I put some meat bones in with it. He had no problem eating it then. :) I think he just had to get the "taste" of raw in his mouth to realize how good it was. He also had to learn how to chew the bones and meat. He seriously did not know how to chew something that wasn't a little, crunchy thing. :cool:

I know some people are more of the hard knock view and say to keep giving the same piece of meat over and over. Well, I think all dogs are not the very same and have different needs at different times. I think whatever it takes to get them eating raw is great - just so they do eventually move to the prey diet. :)

I was reading some posts here on the cost of feeding the prey model. LOL. If I only had my four small ones to feed - it would be hardly any money at all. BUT! I have a 150 lb. Great Dane who eats 90 lbs. a month. He was eating more cause he was way underweight when I got him. He has now filled out - you can't see and feel his bones anymore - and he is beautiful!! So, right around 90 lbs a month will be his "normal" amount. :rolleyes:

thank you for responding. I was really discouraged! BUT I had decided I would come home today and pretty much force feed him. (Bad Mama) Well, lo and behold it worked! This time anyway! After I pretty much made he swallow a small piece, that was it. He kept coming back for more. He ended up eating a whole thigh (in little pieces had fed) but he ate and wanted more. I did not want to over do it and quit after the thigh was gone. He took the bone outside, I just found it! I thought I had thrown away the bone, b/c he would not take it by hand. I was glad to see he had the bone. For now he is just trying to hide it outside. I hope this is an improvement and just the first step. I will chop up the meat in bite size pieces until I see he will try to eat on his own. I hope this continues. I will let everyone know tomorrow. Thanks for the support!!!:animal36

That's great! Sounds like you are on your way. :thumbup::thumbup:

Well, no luck this morning. Nolee totally refused to eat. I couldn't even force him to eat it. He would spit it out. I decided to try again this evening. OK I tried the chicken again and he still would not eat it. I finally got a small piece in his mouth and he gaged it up. I gave up and threw the chicken in the garbage. I decided to try the ground meat as suggested. So off the the market I went and purchased ground meat. He loved it. I didn't have to force him at all. As soon as I put in down he was eating it. What do I do from here. Continue with ground beef for a while and then move on to what?? :animal36

I would continue with the ground but add pieces of chicken too. Start with very small pieces and as he gets used to it, make them larger, with less ground. If it is the chicken he doesn't like, maybe you could try a different kind of meat - some beef or turkey or game hen, even pork.

One of my dogs doesn't particularly like beef heart, but it is a staple here. :cool: If I put just a tiny bit of another meat in with the heart or splash some fish oil on it, he gobbles it up. :D

Let us know how it's going!!!

Another great option is fresh green tripe. You may have to order it online, but some dog feed suppliers that sell raw have it in their freezers. It ignites the 'instinct' and stimulates appetite.

Also bear in mind a dog wont starve himself. Don't let your family guilt you! Dogs can go up to a week without eating according to my vet (even though thats not ideal!) just be patient! let him get hungry. Train him - don't let him train you!

I really think its the chicken he doesn't like. He really stopped eating his canned chicken and kibble a good 2-3 months ago. I will try adding some chicken and see what happens. If this doens't work I will try to add some other meat. What beef with bone is reasonably priced? Im not sure what to look for. Same for the pork. I am worried that the ground beef is a little to fat. Well, this morning he ate at least 2oz of ground beef in no time. Is this enough for one feeding. I feed him twice a day. This evening I will try adding some chicken and see what happens. I may be returning to the market in the a.m. once again. Where can I get green tripe? No sure where to start. Thank you both. I really need the support right now. I do so love my little one and want what is best! Thanks again!:animal36

There really aren't any beef bones that are suitable for eating -especially for small dogs. A lot of the beef bones are weight bearing and are very dense and many times have cracked/broken teeth. Someone tell me if you know of beef bones that won't cause damage.

Normally at the morning meal I give meat and organs or eggs, etc... The evening meal is when I give the meaty bones. I have given some large rib bones to the little ones and they eat the meat off and chew on the bone a bit and then I take it away. They love the pork riblets. too - the bone is much smaller on those.

I guess for us, beef heart and chicken are fed the most often. Then pork and turkey and game hen and ground lamb with the bone. Sometimes the brisket bones. I have also bought a picnic ham - not cured - and they love that. I watch to see what is cheap - on sale or mark downs. I have bought steak for then on occasion when it was on sale. I also feed canned salmon. No, it's not raw, but it does have the bones in it. I can't afford fresh salmon for 5 dogs, but they LOVE the canned. You could also try other kinds of fish, too.

You will just have to experiment and see what works best for your guy. Remember that it is mostly meat and then organs and bone.

I can get tripe through a group I belong to here but I never have. First because it is very expensive and second, I have an extremely sensitive nose and I think I would literally throw up!! :rolleyes: It is supposed to be very good for our pups and a lot of people love to feed it, but others have fed raw for years and never touched tripe.

When I got my Dane, I was advised to let him go hungry till he ate and I wish I had listened to my own instincts. He went 5 days without eating. :( He was underweight when I got him and he lost more. I know every dog and every situation is different so you have to do what is best for YOU and YOUR dog! :) If he needs to eat ground for bit - what is that going to hurt? It is WAY better than going back to dry food.

Now if you have had a dog on raw for awhile and he stops eating just to be fussy - if there are no other health issues going on - then the plan of action may be different.

I hope things go well. Keep us up to date!
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I bet you it was the chicken...As TJ wouldn't eat raw chicken either - BUT Beef, Vension, Rabit, Lamb - LOVED IT ;)

Hi Lady's
I started something new. I stopped the baking soda every other day to about once a week. The skin doesnt seem so dry. I also stopped the vinegar spray to about once a week and now bathing every few days. What I have added is a hot spot treatment that can be purchased any where, like wal-mart, called sulphedene. I decided to use it for the sulphur in it and in the week and a half I have been using it the grayish area on his back is getting lighter in color. Sulphedene is a little oily so it coats the skin. The sores are even less also and the scratching is even less. He has been playing with the other dogs and thats something he hasnt done in a while. He seems alot better. I finally noticed the black poo. it was all over his back side and had to clean him up. So, maybe thats one of the reasons he is feeling better to. All the junk is leaving his system finally.

I have a new puppy! Not really, lol. Chewy is like a whole new person ( to me he is human, he has such attitude).
He has such energy lately and is running around chasing the other dogs and giving them hell. Which is something I havent seen him do in a long time. I am so happy, He doesnt spend his days scratching and eating himself any more. I cant thank you guys enough. I do have a question.... I have noticed on the skin where it has changed colors like from scaring where he scratches alot the hair is turning red. Any one else seen this? Its mainly on one side, his left side above his shoulder in about three patches. its odd. But he is so happy, so I cant complain if he has splotches of red hair, I can say he has natural highlights when his hair grows out. lol. Oh, How long do I have to keep him shaved down? Other than the occasional scrathes he does he doesnt have sores any more from the yeast. I assume it would be ok to let it grow and if we run into trouble just shave it down again.

Awesome!
 

I'm very happy to hear the good news about your Chewy! As previously discussed, Systemic Yeast is a long battle and flare-ups do and can happen! Because of this, I keep my own dog in a very short puppy cut so I can monitor his skin better but if you'd like to regrow Chewy's hair now, I guess that'd be fine.
The red hair you described happened to us also. The texture of the hair was different as well. This is a side effect of the baking soda and/or vinegar. So while the hair coat suffered a bit through treatment, it is a necessary evil to kill off the yeast toxins emerging through the skin! I guess the really vain dogs could use the black on black shampoo from Chris Christensen, lol. :rolleyes: ;) :p
All joking aside, Chewy's hair may need to be re-shaved a couple of times after treatment has ended before the coat will go back to normal. Keep a close eye out for new outbreaks of sores. How's the feeding going?


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The feeding is going great. He has no problems. Except I gave him cheek meat and at first he didnt like it. I think I was feeding him to much becasue he gained a pound in a week and feels like he is full of bricks when I picked him up and I cant even feel his ribs any more. So I have cut down on food. I may give him a drumlett and a gizard in the morning and a hunk of beef heart and a small chunk of liver in the eveining. He knows when its feeding time. I keep the portions in little bags in the freezer and put them in hot water in the sink for a second to thaw. He runs around the kitchen like "hurry up I'm hungry". Its so cute to watch him latley, He hasnt act like this since he was about 6 months old and its so cool.