Lymphangiectasia

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I know Lisette is following Dr Hawthorne's instructions to the T, contributing to her girl's improvement. He is so knowledgable in the Yorkshire Terrier, it just amazes me. He owns one of my mentor's yorkies, and is the vet of most yorkie exhibitor/breeders in Dallas. I still make calls to him for advice. A wonderful vet that sits on the Board on Vetenarians, works with Dr Centers. I can't speak too highly of him. An added plus.....he does all the dental work on the dogs that see him. Yep! no vet tech, says your paying vet fees, you get a vet to do the job, my techs are here to assist me, not to do my work.

love that as that is why i see a board certified dentist and today at vet the vet said wow her teeth look great and she had them done in july he said most look bad by now wow so i think i did right by going to dentist as i do not want a tech doing my dogs teeth i want a dentist doing especially since under anesthesia and they have further training in it as well.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

have to disagree on this as this is determined by low protein on blood work which is different than pancreatitis. I think what you are referring epi not pancreatitis. Epi is determined by TLI blood test for pancreas which has to do with pancreatic enzymes. cpli is what is tested for pancreatitis. Two different things. This disease Lymphangiectasia Is tied more to lower protein on blood work - the things for pancreatitis are high white blood cell count, amylase and lipase are elevated, triglycerides are high which i would think since triglycerides are fat content in blood would also be affected by this disease as well, and cpli test high for pancreatitis. Low protein does not come up in a pancreatitis dog. I have went through a severe bout of pancreatitis and his protein was never off. He only had vomitting though with the disease not diarhea which could be why.

Then you disagree with a Dr that is well versed. Lisette's lil one had numerous blood panels done on her wee one by a couple of other vets and neither could determine or treat her yorkie properly. Doc Hawthorne called it on her first visit.

So sorry that you dog now is facing yet another medical issue.......you maybe should of taken a vet career path.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

love that as that is why i see a board certified dentist and today at vet the vet said wow her teeth look great and she had them done in july he said most look bad by now wow so i think i did right by going to dentist as i do not want a tech doing my dogs teeth i want a dentist doing especially since under anesthesia and they have further training in it as well.

His working on teeth is an added plus. He's saved many a show dog bite by knowing which puppy teeth to pull.

When I was searching for a vet here in California that was one of my first questions.....do you do your own dental. If they said no, then on to the next one......My vet here will work on my dogs teeth, because of the relationship I have with him, he offered that service to me the first time I met with him.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Then you disagree with a Dr that is well versed. Lisette's lil one had numerous blood panels done on her wee one by a couple of other vets and neither could determine or treat her yorkie properly. Doc Hawthorne called it on her first visit.

So sorry that you dog now is facing yet another medical issue.......you maybe should of taken a vet career path.

he is not saying she has this he is saying it is something we have to keep an eye on her for and yes i am disagreeing as low protein does not show up in dogs with pancreatitis as my boy yorkie had pancreatitis and i am very familiar with pancreatitis and NEVER have i seen my boys blood work be low on protein EVER and he had a bunch of blood work so perhaps the OP is confusing EPI and pancreatitis as that would make more sense epi being confused with this disease NOT PANCREATITIS is all i was saying not that he has misdiagnosed her dog so not sure why you are taking such offense to this as that was not my intention

and thanks for your concern as yes Dee Dee has alot of health issues and why i educate myself so much and help others and have for 5 years now

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

he is not saying she has this he is saying it is something we have to keep an eye on her for and yes i am disagreeing as low protein does not show up in dogs with pancreatitis as my boy yorkie had pancreatitis and i am very familiar with pancreatitis and NEVER have i seen my boys blood work be low on protein EVER and he had a bunch of blood work so perhaps the OP is confusing EPI and pancreatitis as that would make more sense epi being confused with this disease NOT PANCREATITIS is all i was saying not that he has misdiagnosed her dog so not sure why you are taking such offense to this as that was not my intention

and thanks for your concern as yes Dee Dee has alot of health issues and why i educate myself so much and help others and have for 5 years now

No offense taken. However, I did speak to Doc on this subject and he said he could very well see why she had been misdiagnosed. Her wee one's blood panels never showed abnormalities what so ever. It was enigma to the other vets.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Then you disagree with a Dr that is well versed. Lisette's lil one had numerous blood panels done on her wee one by a couple of other vets and neither could determine or treat her yorkie properly. Doc Hawthorne called it on her first visit.

So sorry that you dog now is facing yet another medical issue.......you maybe should of taken a vet career path.

also ibd does not show up on blood work and is tied to Lymphangiectasia per our vet. He said that dogs with ibd especially YORKIES tend to get this mid life so sounds like he is treating aggressively since the dogs protein is not low on blood work and is probably ibd and since a yorkie trying to avoid this happening since she has not found the proper diet that is working for her dog. Dogs with severe ibd need to take steroids or atopica off label but a dog having this disease should have low protein on blood work.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

No offense taken. However, I did speak to Doc on this subject and he said he could very well see why she had been misdiagnosed. Her wee one's blood panels never showed abnormalities what so ever. It was enigma to the other vets.

which is always the case with dogs with IBD as it does not show up on blood work and ibd dogs are treated with steroids in severe cases to keep the bowels from being inflamed which causes the diarhea. If the protein is not low then it is ibd and ibd runs in this breed. My guess is that if it gets severe enough it starts affecting the protein levels and can lead to this disease just like it can lead to pancreatitis from small intestinal inflammation. Since ibd and pancreatitis have affected dexter I have researched alot about this for 5 years as i want to know everything about it since it affected my dog. If the dog is not on the right diet then ibd can be a nightmare to deal with so diet is key and since white potato is in most diets it is an inflammatory food thus exacerbates the intestinal tract wreaking havoc on the intestines and why grain diets work well. However chicken is another story our internal medicine specialist is against it in ibd dogs as many ibd dogs have allergies and for some reason ibd dogs who are tied to allergy dogs have a problem with it as well but perhaps a dog that does not have allergies may do better as i know my ibd pancreatitis dog dex does ok with chicken yet my allergy dog dee dee when given chicken and rice had diarhea from it so each dog is very unique and why veterinary and human care is so complicated as what works for one dog may not for another so you have to take good notes, follow up and learn as much as you can from other yorkie owners and find out what works for your dog. Yorkies have alot of health issues it is not secret and digestive issues and allergies are tied to poor immune systems from inbreeding to death this breed therefore all these issues and why immune suppressed and mediated diseases run so ramped in this breed. And why one disease leads to another one so easily for example dogs with allergies many are hypothyroid and dogs with ibd also have allergies, etc ALL TIED TO THE SAME THING a POOR IMMUNE SYSTEM and very sad and having one of these dogs it is very upsetting and why i try to help others understand as much as i can and learn as much as i can - and yes i HATE GOING TO THE VET as everytime something else like this comes up as i have 3 dogs and Dee Dee is from an AKC breeder and has the most issues and it is very sad.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

also ibd does not show up on blood work and is tied to Lymphangiectasia per our vet. He said that dogs with ibd especially YORKIES tend to get this mid life so sounds like he is treating aggressively since the dogs protein is not low on blood work and is probably ibd and since a yorkie trying to avoid this happening since she has not found the proper diet that is working for her dog. Dogs with severe ibd need to take steroids or atopica off label but a dog having this disease should have low protein on blood work.

He did put her on prednisone (sp) blood panal performed and on special diet. I know he left no stone unturned before making diagnosis and prescribing treatment. If you knew this vet, you'd understand why yorkie exhibitors and yorkie owners trust him without question. He is not a run of the mill vet, but one that truely loves his calling. I have his cell and home #s, so does Lisette, my mentor and others that use him do too. How many vets do that? If he knows a situation is beyond his realm of expertise or knowledge he does not hesitate to say so. A humble vet that keeps experienced breed specific breeders in his rolidex, since he understands that at times he may need to call on them for answers.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

which is always the case with dogs with IBD as it does not show up on blood work and ibd dogs are treated with steroids in severe cases to keep the bowels from being inflamed which causes the diarhea. If the protein is not low then it is ibd and ibd runs in this breed. My guess is that if it gets severe enough it starts affecting the protein levels and can lead to this disease just like it can lead to pancreatitis from small intestinal inflammation. Since ibd and pancreatitis have affected dexter I have researched alot about this for 5 years as i want to know everything about it since it affected my dog. If the dog is not on the right diet then ibd can be a nightmare to deal with so diet is key and since white potato is in most diets it is an inflammatory food thus exacerbates the intestinal tract wreaking havoc on the intestines and why grain diets work well. However chicken is another story our internal medicine specialist is against it in ibd dogs as many ibd dogs have allergies and for some reason ibd dogs who are tied to allergy dogs have a problem with it as well but perhaps a dog that does not have allergies may do better as i know my ibd pancreatitis dog dex does ok with chicken yet my allergy dog dee dee when given chicken and rice had diarhea from it so each dog is very unique and why veterinary and human care is so complicated as what works for one dog may not for another so you have to take good notes, follow up and learn as much as you can from other yorkie owners and find out what works for your dog. Yorkies have alot of health issues it is not secret and digestive issues and allergies are tied to poor immune systems from inbreeding to death this breed therefore all these issues and why immune suppressed and mediated diseases run so ramped in this breed. And why one disease leads to another one so easily for example dogs with allergies many are hypothyroid and dogs with ibd also have allergies, etc ALL TIED TO THE SAME THING a POOR IMMUNE SYSTEM and very sad and having one of these dogs it is very upsetting and why i try to help others understand as much as i can and learn as much as i can - and yes i HATE GOING TO THE VET as everytime something else like this comes up as i have 3 dogs and Dee Dee is from an AKC breeder and has the most issues and it is very sad.

Intresting.

I guess you found out that just because a breeder is AKC doesn't make them a good breeder. Not that situations don't happen to good breeders, but what does is how they handle a situation.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Intresting.

I guess you found out that just because a breeder is AKC doesn't make them a good breeder. Not that situations don't happen to good breeders, but what does is how they handle a situation.

yep she said of course none of her yorkies have ever had allergies - uh huh right oh ok. Well shame on me she told me she was an accident, limited AKC - kind of some read flags i guess and vet first thing said hmmmmm looks like some inbreeding here on her papers - yep that was my first AKC dog and my dex is a pet store puppy mill so yep i have learned the hard way and why i help others so hopefully they do not go through the same things i have since I did not do my homework upfront I am doing it now sadly

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

He did put her on prednisone (sp) blood panal performed and on special diet. I know he left no stone unturned before making diagnosis and prescribing treatment. If you knew this vet, you'd understand why yorkie exhibitors and yorkie owners trust him without question. He is not a run of the mill vet, but one that truely loves his calling. I have his cell and home #s, so does Lisette, my mentor and others that use him do too. How many vets do that? If he knows a situation is beyond his realm of expertise or knowledge he does not hesitate to say so. A humble vet that keeps experienced breed specific breeders in his rolidex, since he understands that at times he may need to call on them for answers.

i think it is prednisolone as that is easier on the liver than prednisone as it is broken down prednisone and this is what is in temarilp which my dd gets. Since liver disease runs in this breed prednisolone is much safer than prednisone. DD was on prednisone and she looked like a cushings dog - lost hair, pot belly pig looking, cumidomes all over he belly it was horrible and that is when i finally went to a dermatologist and so having seen a dog on prednisone vs prednisolone i definitely recommend prednisolone over prednisone any day. I think alot of times first hand experience in seeing it daily in a dog gives you alot of experience than 15 min in a room with a dog so glad he deals with yorkie owners with experience with the breed and why this group is so valuable from other yorkie owners. For ex ava on here her story is heart breaking if you have read it as here is another example of a vet who did not know what to do with an IBD dog and owner spends 8k plus and has to sign her dog over to get help on THANKSGIVING that is horrible and why AGAIN IBD is very hard to get to the bottom of it as IDEALLY you want the dog NOT on steroids but a good diet as NO DRUGS is always the best option and why i am so glad the purina ha worked for dex as that was our last resort before steroids but here is the complicated part of using steroids for ibd is dogs with ibd are prone to pancreatitis and steroids can cause pancreatitis and why with dex almost dying of pancreatitis it was CRITICAL i get a right diet and now he gets NOTHING BUT THAT FOOD as we got him normal after 10k and 1 year of off and on hospital visits and NOW for 4 years this february he has had no issues on the purina HA which is a hydrolized diet and dogs with ibd do well on hydrolized diets and vet said today the hydrolized diets are best for this disease as well. This vet we see has a phd from ucdavis and is very sharp but a little drug happy for my liking but we work together but i also deal with internal medicine specialist i love and Dr Jean Dodds does all of our blood work and she is awesome and yes she emails me even as late as 11:00pm at night on how to split an oblong pill so she is like the vet you are describing which is very rare to help out all hours of the night as does the vet group i am on which helps owners 24 hrs a day and they are amazing as well - that is very hard to find - Luckily we have a specialty hospital near by that is 24/7 where our internal medicine specialist is and they help me alot as seems like issues arise on weekends and evenings always so finally i feel like i have a great group of people but with Allergies there is no real cure just try to keep them comfortable sadly but i do have the ibd and pancreatitis stuff down for sure

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

yep she said of course none of her yorkies have ever had allergies - uh huh right oh ok. Well shame on me she told me she was an accident, limited AKC - kind of some read flags i guess and vet first thing said hmmmmm looks like some inbreeding here on her papers - yep that was my first AKC dog and my dex is a pet store puppy mill so yep i have learned the hard way and why i help others so hopefully they do not go through the same things i have since I did not do my homework upfront I am doing it now sadly

I really understand your wanting to help others, as I do too. But, being on YT for so many years, sharing and attempting to educate people at times goes by the wayside. You see it everyday. People posting their desire of wanting a pup and immediately you see a rash of breeders (????) that have been on here for a short period, posting, informing these newbies that they have puppies (you never see these breeders back on again, until they have puppies available again). And these uneducated newbies falling for it.

BYBers can be AKC breeders too. That doesn't mean they have educated themselves enough to be breeders. These breeders have had the opportunity to gain dogs with good pedigrees via the back door and indiscrimently breeding these dogs. Distroying the pedigree and the hard work of breeders that have spent years perfecting the lines. These BYBers only using the pedigrees to promote puppy sales.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I really understand your wanting to help others, as I do too. But, being on YT for so many years, sharing and attempting to educate people at times goes by the wayside. You see it everyday. People posting their desire of wanting a pup and immediately you see a rash of breeders (????) that have been on here for a short period, posting, informing these newbies that they have puppies (you never see these breeders back on again, until they have puppies available again). And these uneducated newbies falling for it.

BYBers can be AKC breeders too. That doesn't mean they have educated themselves enough to be breeders. These breeders have had the opportunity to gain dogs with good pedigrees via the back door and indiscrimently breeding these dogs. Distroying the pedigree and the hard work of breeders that have spent years perfecting the lines. These BYBers only using the pedigrees to promote puppy sales.

yeah very sad actually as this lady seemed so knowledgeable etc but i was fooled Sadly my pet store yorkie is healthier than my byb pup

[dwerten]

ok did some more research on this so the things to look out for on blood work are low calcium, low cholesterol, and low protein.

A yorkie owner on my yahoo groups her dog died of this at age 6 and diet is critical for this disease she said. They did an autopsy on the dog and she sent me the autopsy report and all the info she had on it so just wanted to share the above things are what you look for with this disease.

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by dwerten

ok did some more research on this so the things to look out for on blood work are low calcium, low cholesterol, and low protein.

A yorkie owner on my yahoo groups her dog died of this at age 6 and diet is critical for this disease she said. They did an autopsy on the dog and she sent me the autopsy report and all the info she had on it so just wanted to share the above things are what you look for with this disease.

Thanks so much for this info. Lola had dropped so much weight within 2 weeks, from 6.5 to 4.2 lbs. Now she back up to 6 lbs. I like her to weight around 6.5. Yes diet is everything. She is eating White rice with ground lean turkey and peas and I will give sweetpotato as a snack or treat. I feed her 2 times a day seperate from my others. She has not had diarrhea since this diet! I am weaning her off the prednisone. I am only giving it to her Mon, Wed, Frid. Next week it will be Mon and Friday. She is no longer taking Metro so we are on the lookout for any changes with her BM. If she starts having the diarrhea then he will biopsy and histopathology.