Michael Vick Defended By Woopi Goldburg

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by diggy4

whether this be a learned behavior or something he thougth was "cool" and decided to give it a try is this. Michael Vick is paid millions of dollars a year to be a NFL player...with those millions you also are put in a leadership role. That man was millions of kids hero....my son for one....He has the Vick Jersey, cards, and when they play back yard football he always wanted to be Vick, he has the Vick football cleats. He did not fight one dog or even a few dogs and think holy S**t this is wrong. This was an on going behavior he DECIDED to involve himself in. He has had plenty of oppprtunities to be taught this is VERY wrong and NOT acceptable on any level. He went to College (Virginia Tech), he spends LOTS of time with non-violent men (team mates) so I dont care if he was raised in this environment or not he had the education and every opportunity in the world to STOP the VIOLENCE he didn't. Sorry but I dont buy the he is a product of his environment....I was born in a VERY small minded community in a Southern State and to this day it is a dry county (no alcohol sold within the county lines) and there is not 1 family of color within those county lines either. To this day the area is filled with racists pigs, and products of environments just as I was...So would it be okay if I was racist?? Instead I am the opposite. I moved to just outside Detroit...I send my kids to school proudly with many kids of many cultures and they LOVE it. He should have been a leader....NOT a follower but like mom said you can lead a horse to water but ya cannot make it drink.

<sigh> Ever feel like you're just banging your head into a wall...

You admit yourself it happens. It's wrong, but it happens. Yes, he had every chance in the world to change, but he chose not to...he chose to stick with and continue what he'd been taught was acceptable. All I was trying to do is point this out a possible underlying reason for his choice. Just for discussion sake, look past and examine why and where some people may get the indication that it is OK. HE had an education and maybe he 'should have known better.' What about the 12 year old out there doing it?

Thanks...you've actually reitterated what I've been saying, in a round about way...

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Sandysbabies

Saying it is a southern thing is a cop out. That would be like saying all Mexicans are involved in cockfighting. Its all cruel and senseless and I hope this man gets all he deserves. For one thing I hope he is NEVER allowed to play proball again. His apology does not hold water. He only wants to worm his way back in to the NFL graces. $$$ is the name of the game. He was even in trouble in college. I'm sorry to but to me he could live under a bridge and have a friend with a pitbull that bit him in the ---every morning before breakfast and it would be too good for him. Here's one southerner that thinks he is scum.

Nah, I agree with you. I hope he never plays again either. And really, what NFL franchise would welcome him and want their team associated with him. His days are done, and rightfully so, if you ask me. And I don't know about it being a "Southern thing"...I think dog fighting is present everywhere...?

[crystalsmom]

Diggy, as much as the NFL wanted to find something to keep him there,once they knew he lied and was forced in a corner by his friends admitting guilt I think he lost the whole case with them. Like you mentioned he did not do the right thing and admit guilt until he had to....I see no grey area.

LaPrincess, I do understand what you are saying and getting to the root of the problem is a great way to solve a problem but sometimes it's one person at a time.

That's it for me on this subject til December.

[diggy4]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

<sigh> Ever feel like you're just banging your head into a wall...

You admit yourself it happens. It's wrong, but it happens. Yes, he had every chance in the world to change, but he chose not to...he chose to stick with and continue what he'd been taught was acceptable. All I was trying to do is point this out a possible underlying reason for his choice. Just for discussion sake, look past and examine why and where some people may get the indication that it is OK. HE had an education and maybe he 'should have known better.' What about the 12 year old out there doing it?

Thanks...you've actually reitterated what I've been saying, in a round about way...

Yep, and I TOTALLY agree with you. When a person is given no chance at an education and really is a product of the environment I can give a little understanding....but when your 12 year old son owns things with this mans name on it and he walks up to you as seriously as he can be, and stands before you with a Vick Jersey and a handful of Vick cards and says Mom, can I cut all this stuff up and burn it?? I said sure. Well it layed on the steps for the day as we were busy and then he said hey mom did u know the Humane Society is now accepting Vick clothes to clean out their kennels with?? I said No, I didnt realize that. He asked if we could donate it instead!!! I don't think I have EVER been more proud of my son then I was at that moment. And i really mean that.

As for the 12 year olds out there doing it...Like someone else said I guess take it one kid at a time. And with all this press and see Michael Vick getting thrown in the Clank will save just one child from this horrific practice they have been shown.

[Tillys_mom]

Originally Posted by diggy4

Yep, and I TOTALLY agree with you. When a person is given no chance at an education and really is a product of the environment I can give a little understanding....but when your 12 year old son owns things with this mans name on it and he walks up to you as seriously as he can be, and stands before you with a Vick Jersey and a handful of Vick cards and says Mom, can I cut all this stuff up and burn it?? I said sure. Well it layed on the steps for the day as we were busy and then he said hey mom did u know the Humane Society is now accepting Vick clothes to clean out their kennels with?? I said No, I didnt realize that. He asked if we could donate it instead!!! I don't think I have EVER been more proud of my son then I was at that moment. And i really mean that.

That was really sweet of your son. See he is young and knew it was wrong.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by diggy4

Yep, and I TOTALLY agree with you. When a person is given no chance at an education and really is a product of the environment I can give a little understanding

Hmm...maybe, depending on how you define 'education.' Never in all my 'education' did they ever attempt to teach morals, which is what this would fall under. I don't remember ever taking a class with lectures on dog fighting. Textbook learnin' doesn't cover some subjects, unfortunately. Sounds like your son definately has someone teaching him right from wrong and I bet you were very proud of the way he acted. Sounds like your son already has some good morals being instilled in him...sadly there are some who never got that.

Originally Posted by Tillys_mom

See he is young and knew it was wrong.

Clearly he has someone there teaching him WHY it is wrong and unacceptable. For many, it's just something 'common' that they see every day and don't bat an eye at.

[Tillys_mom]

I sure hope that he uses this in the end to reach out to people that think this is acceptable. Sad to say but sometimes it takes something really bad to happen before any good can come out of it.

[crystalsmom]

Originally Posted by diggy4

Yep, and I TOTALLY agree with you. When a person is given no chance at an education and really is a product of the environment I can give a little understanding....but when your 12 year old son owns things with this mans name on it and he walks up to you as seriously as he can be, and stands before you with a Vick Jersey and a handful of Vick cards and says Mom, can I cut all this stuff up and burn it?? I said sure. Well it layed on the steps for the day as we were busy and then he said hey mom did u know the Humane Society is now accepting Vick clothes to clean out their kennels with?? I said No, I didnt realize that. He asked if we could donate it instead!!! I don't think I have EVER been more proud of my son then I was at that moment. And i really mean that.

As for the 12 year olds out there doing it...Like someone else said I guess take it one kid at a time. And with all this press and see Michael Vick getting thrown in the Clank will save just one child from this horrific practice they have been shown.

Geez it's not December and I'm back already but this is such a great post

such a sad part of the whole thing, these kids have had him as an idol.

I swear I'm not back til I buy my Christmas Tree on this subject that is.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by crystalsmom

I swear I'm not back til I buy my Christmas Tree on this subject that is.

Lol...maybe by then his trial will be over!

[La Princesa]

Originally Posted by drawlins27

Thanks for the insight, its very interesting.

Actually he did first initially deny any involvement. He publicly stated that it was his family who was responsible. And he also pleaded not guilty at first. He only changed his plea after the other three co-defendents agreed to testify against him.

Here is what he said before changing his plea to guilty.

"I'm never there. I'm never at the house," Vick said. "I left the house with my family members and my cousin. They just haven't been doing the right thing. The issue will get resolved. It's unfortunate I have to take the heat behind it. If I'm not there, I don't know what's going on. It's a call for me to really tighten down on who I'm trying to take care of. When it all boils down, people will try to take advantage of you and leave you out to dry. Lesson learned for me"

when he said that i didn't believe him at all. There is no way you can have something like that going on at your estate and not know it. I only believed that this was a factor after he owned a dog or two and then he has some relative say "Hey why don't we do it big at your house?" then it escalated, thas what i believed from the beginning. I know that my cousin who played for the greenbay packers doesn't even talk to his siblings father or whatever because when you come from poverty and all of a sudden make money and your family is not only poor but inconsiderate, they can take advantage.

There are just tough choices to make and he made the wrong one. I do hope that he makes a place in his future to really start helping save animals because of what he has learned and went through. It will take some maturity and humility for him to step up and be a part of the solution.

[Rae Rae]

Originally Posted by labrown

Agreed. Just because it is socially acceptable doesn't mean it is right. Let's see, for instance:

Women's liberation
Civil rights movement
Concentration camps
Asian child mutilation
African diamond trade
American liberation from England
the Civil War
Communism

I was thinking something along the same concept...what about in cultures where there is constant fighting and killing..does that make it o.k? Maybe we should put Woopi and Vick in a room together, make them fight and see how they like it.

[jp4m2]

Originally Posted by La Princesa

great quote but easier said than done...

IMO....The only difference in the people who get sucked into that kind of destructive life and the ones who don't are the ones with a strong will, determination, courage, commitment, morals, and a good character.....nothing worth while is easy, if we only had to do the easy stuff in life not much would get done.....
We certainly wouldn't have surgeons, chemists, doctors, engineers etc...etc. if they quit because it got hard, sheer will .... sure your background can put you at a disadvantage but it surly isn't a life sentence of doom and it can be over come.....how bad do you want it?

The free pass comment came from reading the other sports figures making comments such as: dog fighting is a sport...it's no different than hunting.....dogs get into fight all the time....
These kinds of comment are an indication that Vick shouldn't be prosecuted for this....

LaPrincesa, I've seen several of your posts mentioning how your personally helping in your community to stop these kinds of things from happening, how exactly are you doing that, are you working undercover?

[jp4m2]

Originally Posted by diggy4

whether this be a learned behavior or something he thougth was "cool" and decided to give it a try is this. Michael Vick is paid millions of dollars a year to be a NFL player...with those millions you also are put in a leadership role. That man was millions of kids hero....my son for one....He has the Vick Jersey, cards, and when they play back yard football he always wanted to be Vick, he has the Vick football cleats. He did not fight one dog or even a few dogs and think holy S**t this is wrong. This was an on going behavior he DECIDED to involve himself in. He has had plenty of oppprtunities to be taught this is VERY wrong and NOT acceptable on any level. He went to College (Virginia Tech), he spends LOTS of time with non-violent men (team mates) so I dont care if he was raised in this environment or not he had the education and every opportunity in the world to STOP the VIOLENCE he didn't. Sorry but I dont buy the he is a product of his environment....I was born in a VERY small minded community in a Southern State and to this day it is a dry county (no alcohol sold within the county lines) and there is not 1 family of color within those county lines either. To this day the area is filled with racists pigs, and products of environments just as I was...So would it be okay if I was racist?? Instead I am the opposite. I moved to just outside Detroit...I send my kids to school proudly with many kids of many cultures and they LOVE it. He should have been a leader....NOT a follower but like mom said you can lead a horse to water but ya cannot make it drink.

Glad some one else gets it....common sense tells me he was only in this for the thrill of the kill, he already had money....

[La Princesa]

Originally Posted by jp4m2

IMO....The only difference in the people who get sucked into that kind of destructive life and the ones who don't are the ones with a strong will, determination, courage, commitment, morals, and a good character.....nothing worth while is easy, if we only had to do the easy stuff in life not much would get done.....
We certainly wouldn't have surgeons, chemists, doctors, engineers etc...etc. if they quit because it got hard, sheer will .... sure your background can put you at a disadvantage but it surly isn't a life sentence of doom and it can be over come.....how bad do you want it?

The free pass comment came from reading the other sports figures making comments such as: dog fighting is a sport...it's no different than hunting.....dogs get into fight all the time....
These kinds of comment are an indication that Vick shouldn't be prosecuted for this....

LaPrincesa, I've seen several of your posts mentioning how your personally helping in your community to stop these kinds of things from happening, how exactly are you doing that, are you working undercover?

I really didn't wanna discuss it here that is why i didn't elaborate. first off when this first broke out I called everyone from my hood all my cousins to check and make sure that they knew what was going on. I don't know any of them that actually participate for a fact but i do know a certain area where arrest were made in my relatives old neighborhood. I made sure to give them all a speech about animal cruelty and how it was wrong. I felt that that was the least i could do because some of these guys just don't have someone that knows better telling them whats right from wrong. I have planned from the beginning to make my boys therapy dogs so training is really important to me. Many kids who know people who own dogs or own dogs themselves have don't have trained dogs, or any have dogs they keep outside in the cold cold winter because they never trained the dog when they got it. i know because that is how i grew up.Many don't realize how easy it ca be to take time to train a dog basic things that can will keep both owner and a beloved pet happy inside a home no matter how big the dog is. Since i was planning on volunteering at my old job Children's hospital, as well as a few assisted living places, I thought why don't I call up my sons old Principal, and well as my old principal and see if i can bring my dogs in once they get certified. I did just that and I figure that once the children can see how good a pet can be and how easy it is to train a few tricks then they will remember that for their own pets in the future and the more kids i reach the more likely I will touch the heart of a potential kid who will be enticed by friends to harm an animal. I can tell them about how wrong harming animals can be and maybe they will look into my dogs eyes and know that its wrong too. Maybe those one or two kids that i reach will have the will and strength to say no or speak up and tell someone its wrong.

See for this i don't have to belong to peta and i don't have to do some undercover crap. I just have to be upfront and be myself and just take time out of my busy schedule and give a little back to the community and hope that my effort makes i difference.
this is why it strikes me funny to see everyone pointing fingers and complaining and not trying to do their part to change things. It doesn't take much to be a small part of the solution.

[La Princesa]

Originally Posted by Rae Rae

I was thinking something along the same concept...what about in cultures where there is constant fighting and killing..does that make it o.k? Maybe we should put Woopi and Vick in a room together, make them fight and see how they like it.

then it would be ok for us to also put you in that room and fight as well since you have a different way of thinking than me as well. . Just because someone doesn't think the same way as u doesn't mean u should say such a cruel things, especially since u brought up the question "does it make it ok?"