Michael Vick Defended By Woopi Goldburg

[La Princesa]

Originally Posted by drawlins27

Let's be very careful not to make this an issue about race. White, black, purple, blue, it makes no difference in this particular argument. The argument was that he grew up in the south, a culture where there is dog fighting. People of all races fight dogs here.

Punishing him will not stop others from doing it, but he must face the penality for his actions. I agree that the issue is bigger than him, but he has brought the issue into the spotlight.

I am glad he has bought it to the spotlight and I am glad for people like Whoopi who constantly cross over cultural boundaries and are not afraid to keep it in the spotlight until a change comes about.

You can send all the hate mail you want about Whoopi but keep in mind with her stance and love for people and animals she can be one person who is able to put money into a real specific program to help stop this specific violence toward animals.

[ARCHIE]

Originally Posted by La Princesa

You say this as if he is the only one doing it.. there are MANY kids doing it today and they need help learning how wrong it is. Its easy to blame one man but even more difficult to be part of a solution

One man is not being blamed at all. All those who were involved with Vicks
are being blamed. Vicks confessed his guilt. If Vicks could be a role model
to the young as an athlete he can also be a role model for WHAT NOT TO
DO to the young kids who get involved with this kind of horror.
Perhaps they will learn from his conviction. Something gained afterall.
Anyone who is caught in dog fighting, drug dealing or any other illegal
activity must be made to pay for their illegal involvement. Woman, man, old, young, black, white whatever, you do the crime you have to expect to pay the time. That's the law.
Sorry if your upset by what is happening to Vicks but he did it to himself.
No one made him do this horrendous act. It was his choice and his choice
alone. Everyone has their different opinions on any subject and this is mine.
I do hope something good can come out of this. Perhaps the young who are
or thinking about getting involved into this type of activity will now think
twice before doing so.

[jp4m2]

Originally Posted by La Princesa

people are giving you thumbs up but remember this is not something he started doing when he turned pro.. he has been doing it and was exposed to it at an early age.. just like kids with violent video games.. you can become numb to whats really going on, and there are studies to back that up... we need to take steps to stop this behavior early so that these young men who are in this can have a better perception why its wrong. Take a step back and please look at the evolution of this.. as we can see from all of this discussion it must me easy to point finger at al adult and and gripe about horrible of a crime it is, than take the time to educate the little ones in your neighborhood before they get caught up in such horrible activities...

I'm going to jump in here with my Nikes on....I agree some what in your theory, kids need the proper guidance from birth, what their exposed to growing up is sometimes regarded as "normal " to them,.... but

The lengths people will go to to avoid responsibility is so amazing to me, we are all becoming "Victims of Some Kind of Abuse/ChildhoodTrauma Club" these days...

From what I've read Vick did not do this as a child. He started this as an adult.People do bad things because they get "good vibes" from doing them. This is not a disease or a result from any "confusion" on his part of what is acceptable by society. This is a character issue, plain and simple.

Everything he did was by a conscience choice... right, wrong, moral, immoral, compassionate, or selfish. Do what you want then justify. I for one
will never believe this man didn't know any better. He did these horrific things for five years! I bet he knew enough to only tell certain individuals about what he was doing off the field. We have a responsibility to choose our behaviors. He was not under some uncontrollable force which he couldn't escape...

If you still want to offer him a free pass on this all I have to say on that is.....Everyone must overcome something....that simply is life....To suggest that your history is your destiny and that we are created by our past is an insult to the capacity of human beings to overcome obstacles....What happens in our childhoods is not our faults, but how we handle it is our responsibility....

[SevenGirl]

Originally Posted by drawlins27

Personally, I don't buy into the excuse of its his culture and he didn't know any better.

I grew up in the south where there was dog fighting and cock fighting going on but I still know that it is wrong and morally reprehensible. It was a personal decision he made to engage in this type of behavior. He knew it was wrong or he wouldn't have tried to hide it or lie about it. In the whole nature vs nurture debate, I believe that its a combination of the two that makes a person who they are. But there comes a time when you have to stop blaming your environment and take some responsibility for your own actions.

I absolutely agree.

Michael Vick is a man who has been blessed with an athletic gift and has been given everything under the sun because of it---too bad a bit of compassion was left out.

Time for the excuses to stop.

[drawlins27]

Originally Posted by jp4m2

To suggest that your history is your destiny and that we are created by our past is an insult to the capacity of human beings to overcome obstacles....What happens in our childhoods is not our faults, but how we handle it is our responsibility....

Whoa, nice quote! I might need to frame that and hang it in my office.

[BamaFan121s]

Oh for the love of Pete! No one is suggesting that the way he was brought up is an excuse for what it did! Or that it should get him off the hook, or anything else of that nature. Whether it was right or wrong and whether or not he was intelligent enough to make the decision not to do it was not in question. The subject was brought up as one of many possible FACTORS that could have possibly ATTRIBUTED to his decision and WHY he acted the way he did.
The first think I though when I heard about this was "How on Earth could anyone think this is acceptable and anything BUT cruel?" There must be a reason, right? Well, this is a suggesting reason, an underlying basis for his decision. I'm not trying to decide if he was right or wrong. I think he was as wrong as you can get and I too hope they give him the maximum punishment possible. YES, like it or not, there is a gray area...many more contributing factors that relate to the events other than just 'did he do it and was he wrong.'

[La Princesa]

Originally Posted by ARCHIE

One man is not being blamed at all. All those who were involved with Vicks
are being blamed. Vicks confessed his guilt. If Vicks could be a role model
to the young as an athlete he can also be a role model for WHAT NOT TO
DO to the young kids who get involved with this kind of horror.
Perhaps they will learn from his conviction. Something gained afterall.
Anyone who is caught in dog fighting, drug dealing or any other illegal
activity must be made to pay for their illegal involvement. Woman, man, old, young, black, white whatever, you do the crime you have to expect to pay the time. That's the law.
Sorry if your upset by what is happening to Vicks but he did it to himself.
No one made him do this horrendous act. It was his choice and his choice
alone. Everyone has their different opinions on any subject and this is mine.
I do hope something good can come out of this. Perhaps the young who are
or thinking about getting involved into this type of activity will now think
twice before doing so.

I never said i was upset.. where did you get that I am just passionate about helping young black youth in this situation.. I never said he was not guilty. Just because i don't believe in massive negative emails or speaking negatively harsh words about someone I don't know doesn't mean that he is guilt free. Please don't try to put words in my mouth because this situation doesn't really call for it. You all are really naive to think that the young ones involved in this are scared by what happened to Vick. This will continue to happen behind closed doors like it has while you guys pretend that the kids involved where shaken by another back man from the hood going to jail. I seen one friend gunned down in front of my eyes, but that didn't stop anyone from shooting and killing more people. come one people, be a part of a solution.

You guys fail to see my point. there are many mike vicks out there who need help in unlearning this habit. I am happy that I am not one to sit and talk bad about whats going on I a actually doing something about it. Weather its Latinos Caucasians of Black folk I have and will continue to reach out to my own community to educate people on how they should treat animals and pets while you sit and point fingers and ignore the underlying issues. No it may not effect my kid but i am not going to sit back , point fingers and watch it effect other children(teenagers) when I can make a difference.

Am i mad, not in the least but my words are strong huh? Thas what god gave to me as a gift and Imma gonna use it to make sure none of my sons friends ever become a statistic as Vick has.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by jp4m2

To suggest that your history is your destiny and that we are created by our past is an insult to the capacity of human beings to overcome obstacles....What happens in our childhoods is not our faults, but how we handle it is our responsibility....

True, but you can't deny that it also has an unerlying affect on what path we choose to take.
Did he choose a path and was he an intelligent man capable of distinguishing right from wrong? Of course he was!
But to concretely disclude the way you are brought up, what you are accustomed to, etc from being the underlying basis for why you make decisions...? Can't really do that...regardless of how large scale the decision was.

And WHERE did ANYONE say he should be given a free pass for any of this!?!?!?

[La Princesa]

Originally Posted by jp4m2

I'm going to jump in here with my Nikes on....I agree some what in your theory, kids need the proper guidance from birth, what their exposed to growing up is sometimes regarded as "normal " to them,.... but

The lengths people will go to to avoid responsibility is so amazing to me, we are all becoming "Victims of Some Kind of Abuse/ChildhoodTrauma Club" these days...

From what I've read Vick did not do this as a child. He started this as an adult.People do bad things because they get "good vibes" from doing them. This is not a disease or a result from any "confusion" on his part of what is acceptable by society. This is a character issue, plain and simple.

Everything he did was by a conscience choice... right, wrong, moral, immoral, compassionate, or selfish. Do what you want then justify. I for one
will never believe this man didn't know any better. He did these horrific things for five years! I bet he knew enough to only tell certain individuals about what he was doing off the field. We have a responsibility to choose our behaviors. He was not under some uncontrollable force which he couldn't escape...

If you still want to offer him a free pass on this all I have to say on that is.....Everyone must overcome something....that simply is life....To suggest that your history is your destiny and that we are created by our past is an insult to the capacity of human beings to overcome obstacles....What happens in our childhoods is not our faults, but how we handle it is our responsibility....

Did you realize that Vick admitted his guilt and took responsibility. I actually have a cousin who plays pro ball and knows Vick, we spoke about this and he stated that Vick grew up around it and started as a teenager weather he was fighting or watching from the sidelines. I also read it as well.

I aint never said anything about givin him a free pass. Come on now. He admitted his guilty. A persons history has much to do with their destiny, its what you do with you life despite of obstacles that matters the most.. Its easy for you all to say all this but like i said it takes some gutts to actually realize that this is a problem for some cultures and be able to stop more Vick from hurting animals and help more of them become doctors lawyers and even pro football players.

[La Princesa]

Originally Posted by drawlins27

Whoa, nice quote! I might need to frame that and hang it in my office.

great quote but easier said than done...

[drawlins27]

She was just referring to the nature versus nurture debate. Neither one alone can explain why a person behaves the way they do, it is a combination of both. Nature refers to a person's innate qualities while nurture refers to personal experiences.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by drawlins27

She was just referring to the nature versus nurture debate. Neither one alone can explain why a person behaves the way they do, it is a combination of both. Nature refers to a person's innate qualities while nurture refers to personal experiences.

I'm just glad someone else 'gets' what the discussion was about.

[drawlins27]

Originally Posted by La Princesa

Did you realize that Vick admitted his guilt and took responsibility. I actually have a cousin who plays pro ball and knows Vick, we spoke about this and he stated that Vick grew up around it and started as a teenager weather he was fighting or watching from the sidelines. I also read it as well.

Thanks for the insight, its very interesting.

Actually he did first initially deny any involvement. He publicly stated that it was his family who was responsible. And he also pleaded not guilty at first. He only changed his plea after the other three co-defendents agreed to testify against him.

Here is what he said before changing his plea to guilty.

"I'm never there. I'm never at the house," Vick said. "I left the house with my family members and my cousin. They just haven't been doing the right thing. The issue will get resolved. It's unfortunate I have to take the heat behind it. If I'm not there, I don't know what's going on. It's a call for me to really tighten down on who I'm trying to take care of. When it all boils down, people will try to take advantage of you and leave you out to dry. Lesson learned for me"

[diggy4]

Originally Posted by drawlins27

Thanks for the insight, its very interesting.

Actually he did first initially deny any involvement. He publicly stated that it was his family who was responsible. And he also pleaded not guilty at first. He only changed his plea after the other three co-defendents agreed to testify against him.

Here is what he said before changing his plea to guilty.

"I'm never there. I'm never at the house," Vick said. "I left the house with my family members and my cousin. They just haven't been doing the right thing. The issue will get resolved. It's unfortunate I have to take the heat behind it. If I'm not there, I don't know what's going on. It's a call for me to really tighten down on who I'm trying to take care of. When it all boils down, people will try to take advantage of you and leave you out to dry. Lesson learned for me"

whether this be a learned behavior or something he thougth was "cool" and decided to give it a try is this. Michael Vick is paid millions of dollars a year to be a NFL player...with those millions you also are put in a leadership role. That man was millions of kids hero....my son for one....He has the Vick Jersey, cards, and when they play back yard football he always wanted to be Vick, he has the Vick football cleats. He did not fight one dog or even a few dogs and think holy S**t this is wrong. This was an on going behavior he DECIDED to involve himself in. He has had plenty of oppprtunities to be taught this is VERY wrong and NOT acceptable on any level. He went to College (Virginia Tech), he spends LOTS of time with non-violent men (team mates) so I dont care if he was raised in this environment or not he had the education and every opportunity in the world to STOP the VIOLENCE he didn't. Sorry but I dont buy the he is a product of his environment....I was born in a VERY small minded community in a Southern State and to this day it is a dry county (no alcohol sold within the county lines) and there is not 1 family of color within those county lines either. To this day the area is filled with racists pigs, and products of environments just as I was...So would it be okay if I was racist?? Instead I am the opposite. I moved to just outside Detroit...I send my kids to school proudly with many kids of many cultures and they LOVE it. He should have been a leader....NOT a follower but like mom said you can lead a horse to water but ya cannot make it drink.

[Sandysbabies]

Saying it is a southern thing is a cop out. That would be like saying all Mexicans are involved in cockfighting. Its all cruel and senseless and I hope this man gets all he deserves. For one thing I hope he is NEVER allowed to play proball again. His apology does not hold water. He only wants to worm his way back in to the NFL graces. $$$ is the name of the game. He was even in trouble in college. I'm sorry to but to me he could live under a bridge and have a friend with a pitbull that bit him in the ---every morning before breakfast and it would be too good for him. Here's one southerner that thinks he is scum.