Michael Vick Defended By Woopi Goldburg

[La Princesa]

Originally Posted by diggy4

whether this be a learned behavior or something he thougth was "cool" and decided to give it a try is this. Michael Vick is paid millions of dollars a year to be a NFL player...with those millions you also are put in a leadership role. That man was millions of kids hero....my son for one....He has the Vick Jersey, cards, and when they play back yard football he always wanted to be Vick, he has the Vick football cleats. He did not fight one dog or even a few dogs and think holy S**t this is wrong. This was an on going behavior he DECIDED to involve himself in. He has had plenty of oppprtunities to be taught this is VERY wrong and NOT acceptable on any level. He went to College (Virginia Tech), he spends LOTS of time with non-violent men (team mates) so I dont care if he was raised in this environment or not he had the education and every opportunity in the world to STOP the VIOLENCE he didn't. Sorry but I dont buy the he is a product of his environment....I was born in a VERY small minded community in a Southern State and to this day it is a dry county (no alcohol sold within the county lines) and there is not 1 family of color within those county lines either. To this day the area is filled with racists pigs, and products of environments just as I was...So would it be okay if I was racist?? Instead I am the opposite. I moved to just outside Detroit...I send my kids to school proudly with many kids of many cultures and they LOVE it. He should have been a leader....NOT a follower but like mom said you can lead a horse to water but ya cannot make it drink.

great example .. My question is i bet the whole town didn't think the same way u did. I bet yu have family and friend that still don't like black folk. so its not like ur whole town had an epiphany and said in one accord, THIS IS WRONG WE NEED TO CHANGE! nope it doesn't happen like that. They are still even products of their environment, just like my family who still turn their nose up at every white person. I don't go back and curse them and talk negative about them, I encourage them in a positive manor that hatred because of a color is wrong. it happens admit it and continue to be a part of the solution to that problem..

If i was on the other side and was dog fighting, i wouldn't stop it and all your negative comments would fuel me into thinking i can do what i wanna do, and u cant tell me i cant.. but if you came to me in a different manor you would more of a positive effect of me and my thinking. Hate on top of hate does not make the world a better place.

[diggy4]

Originally Posted by La Princesa

great example .. My question is i bet the whole town didn't think the same way u did. I bet yu have family and friend that still don't like black folk. so its not like ur whole town had an epiphany and said in one accord, THIS IS WRONG WE NEED TO CHANGE! nope it doesn't happen like that. They are still even products of their environment, just like my family who still turn their nose up at every white person. I don't go back and curse them and talk negative about them, I encourage them in a positive manor that hatred because of a color is wrong. it happens admit it and continue to be a part of the solution to that problem..

If i was on the other side and was dog fighting, i wouldn't stop it and all your negative comments would fuel me into thinking i can do what i wanna do, and u cant tell me i cant.. but if you came to me in a different manor you would more of a positive effect of me and my thinking. Hate on top of hate does not make the world a better place.

Listen this is turning into a preaching session and first you dont even know what race I am or what I live in or how I affect people. I did not say one negative thing about one person except Michael Vick. Now you need to admit he did wrong, he was given every tool in life...a hell of a ot more than I was and he chose not to use it. I am not trying to change the world I am discussing the OP and how I feel about it from my experiances. See My point was I lived in a small minded town...ALL BY MYSELF I chose to get out and be different Noone raised me to do this, hell they were showing me the opposite. Please don't think I implied that the whole town came together and and the town all changed. NO it's still there still believing in small minded things. I GOT OUT. I didnt fall for the this is how it is.

Hate on top of Hate??? who is hating?? why did you say that to me?? I am the furthest thing from a hater there is. I said with no education and a product of society I would give a little understanding.....MICHAEL VICK IS NOT THAT, He has a degree from VT He played in the NFL he has seen the world, he KNOWS dog fighting is wrong. I am not taling about a child here I am talking about a man who has been given a talent we cannot even touch....he has a wealth of $$, he has a college degree, and you think he wasnt taught right????? He did a sucky thing and got caught!

You said approach it in a different manor....so the cops should have walked up and said you bad Michael...now don't do it again as they drug the rape machines out of the house and dug the dead dogs out of the shallow graves???? Common...I happen to be a VERY positive person and give all kinds of chances to people everyday. I do consider the source in every person I deal with. But I will tell you this I do not consider race when talking to a person as we are all the same in my eyes, and I DO NOT fall for "he didnt know better" when it pertains to Michael Vick.

Maybe I took your post wrong and if I did my bad....but it sounded to me like I was full of negative and thinking all wrong......Sorry I just dont think i am.

[jp4m2]

This thread seems to have turned a corner like so many others....the personal attacks are not necessary.....

Assumptions are being made and some of them are offensive ....

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by diggy4

Listen this is turning into a preaching session and first you dont even know See My point was I lived in a small minded town...ALL BY MYSELF I chose to get out and be different Noone raised me to do this, hell they were showing me the opposite. Please don't think I implied that the whole town came together and and the town all changed. NO it's still there still believing in small minded things. I GOT OUT. I didnt fall for the this is how it is.

I don't think she was implying anything negative about you--I think maybe you misunderstood. I think she was just trying to point out that you claim you KNOW how people can be brainwashed and choose not to make better for themselves, yet you deny that was what happened in Vick's case. Doesn't everyone have a choice to change and get out? Yes, but as you have stated, not everyone chooses to take it and make that change.

Originally Posted by diggy4

I said with no education and a product of society I would give a little understanding.....MICHAEL VICK IS NOT THAT, He has a degree from VT He played in the NFL he has seen the world, he KNOWS dog fighting is wrong. I am not taling about a child here I am talking about a man who has been given a talent we cannot even touch....he has a wealth of $$, he has a college degree, and you think he wasnt taught right?????

So do they teach Dog Fighting 101 now? They have specific classes where you learn morals and ethics and how to be a good person? I don't think so. A pretty diploma from a good university, nice career, God given talent and lots of $$$ does not teach someone right from wrong or make them ethical. So sorry, but the 'he had an education' excuse doesn't work for me.

Originally Posted by diggy4

Maybe I took your post wrong and if I did my bad....but it sounded to me like I was full of negative and thinking all wrong......Sorry I just dont think i am.

For what it's worth, I don't think you were made out--by yourself or anyone esle to look like you are nothing but negative. The only thing you have made yourself out to be is 1) passionate about your opinion, and 2) someone with an opinion of your own with the capability of expressing it. No harm there.

[drawlins27]

Originally Posted by jp4m2

This thread seems to have turned a corner like so many others....the personal attacks are not necessary.....

Assumptions are being made and some of them are offensive ....

I agree, I'm a bit offended about something that has been said as well.

How did race even come into this discussion? This issue has nothing to do with race so let's please keep it out of the thread. Its only going to make this whole thing go OT and get ugly.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by drawlins27

I agree, I'm a bit offended about something that has been said as well.

How did race even come into this discussion? This issue has nothing to do with race so let's please keep it out of the thread. Its only going to make this whole thing go OT and get ugly.

I was offended by a term referring to race pages ago...that has been used several times. But I ignored it because I vowed not to 'let it go there.' I agree--that topic needs to be dropped ASAP!!!

Oh, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle all the waaaaayyyyyyy.....

[diggy4]

Okay I see your point about what she was saying, I still dont agree with lotsof it but I do see it. When I say he has a degree though I mean he is out of that brain washing environment and around people who know dog fighting is wrong not that they teach it in school I mean no longer a product of an environment Not dog fighting 101. And yes I do feel certain ethics are taught in college. responsibility, consequence, and most of all accountability. I am not bringing a whole culture or group into this, all I have did is share my personal experiance, and how I feel Michael Vick was given every tool to get out of that brainwashing he supposidly suffered from and he did not choose to use it. Now if the kid next door to me got busted maybe a totally different story. All I am trying to talk about is Michael Vick and if seemed I had another intention...my apologies....and I do see where I took her post partly wrong as I thought being I was quoted, she meant it towards me. Where I came from doesnt matter I dont expect everyone to see it my way, Im jusy one opinion and yes I am very passionate about it when it comes to animal suffering no matter what the reason.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by diggy4

Okay I see your point about what she was saying, I still dont agree with lotsof it but I do see it. When I say he has a degree though I mean he is out of that brain washing environment and around people who know dog fighting is wrong not that they teach it in school I mean no longer a product of an environment Not dog fighting 101. And yes I do feel certain ethics are taught in college. responsibility, consequence, and most of all accountability. I am not bringing a whole culture or group into this, all I have did is share my personal experiance, and how I feel Michael Vick was given every tool to get out of that brainwashing he supposidly suffered from and he did not choose to use it. Now if the kid next door to me got busted maybe a totally different story. All I am trying to talk about is Michael Vick and if seemed I had another intention...my apologies....and I do see where I took her post partly wrong as I thought being I was quoted, she meant it towards me. Where I came from doesnt matter I dont expect everyone to see it my way, Im jusy one opinion and yes I am very passionate about it when it comes to animal suffering no matter what the reason.

Aww, look...we CAN all get along! I do get your point, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Very good points about responsibility and accountability being taught in college. SO true!

[diggy4]

I agree...Im over it....Race has nothing to with this. I also got offend at a point and probably why I seem to be coming off so passionate. I should not let it get to me.

[diggy4]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Aww, look...we CAN all get along! I do get your point, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Very good points about responsibility and accountability being taught in college. SO true!

Thank you! and yes we can all get along.... Im really not that bad...I promise lol

[La Princesa]

Originally Posted by diggy4

Listen this is turning into a preaching session and first you dont even know what race I am or what I live in or how I affect people. I did not say one negative thing about one person except Michael Vick. Now you need to admit he did wrong, he was given every tool in life...a hell of a ot more than I was and he chose not to use it. I am not trying to change the world I am discussing the OP and how I feel about it from my experiences. See My point was I lived in a small minded town...ALL BY MYSELF I chose to get out and be different No one raised me to do this, hell they were showing me the opposite. Please don't think I implied that the whole town came together and and the town all changed. NO it's still there still believing in small minded things. I GOT OUT. I didn't fall for the this is how it is.

Hate on top of Hate??? who is hating?? why did you say that to me?? I am the furthest thing from a hater there is. I said with no education and a product of society I would give a little understanding.....MICHAEL VICK IS NOT THAT, He has a degree from VT He played in the NFL he has seen the world, he KNOWS dog fighting is wrong. I am not taling about a child here I am talking about a man who has been given a talent we cannot even touch....he has a wealth of $$, he has a college degree, and you think he wasnt taught right????? He did a sucky thing and got caught!

You said approach it in a different manor....so the cops should have walked up and said you bad Michael...now don't do it again as they drug the rape machines out of the house and dug the dead dogs out of the shallow graves???? Common...I happen to be a VERY positive person and give all kinds of chances to people everyday. I do consider the source in every person I deal with. But I will tell you this I do not consider race when talking to a person as we are all the same in my eyes, and I DO NOT fall for "he didnt know better" when it pertains to Michael Vick.

Maybe I took your post wrong and if I did my bad....but it sounded to me like I was full of negative and thinking all wrong......Sorry I just don't think i am.

I kinda think you missed the point. You said ur small town had one family of color, and usually back people don't refer to themselves as a family of color so assumed that the family of color wasn't yours. The first paragraph was an example of something that people do in a negative way. I made sure that i put some of the guilt of some of the people i loved as well and tell the truth, (they hate white people) so that you could see it was an example and in no way was meant to demean you.Please go back and re-read the post and see that i didnt imply anything it was an example. Someones already brought up a whole list of examples as well like:
Women's liberation
Civil rights movement
Concentration camps
Asian child mutilation
African diamond trade
American liberation from England
the Civil War
Communism

many deal with racism or cultural differences. I do the same but i am explain my examples well. Example how can people think that mutilation of a womans private parts to ensure she is a virgin is right? Well the same way men can think Dog fighting is right. My mom told me something about killing rats on her porch when she was younger like with a stick. She was bought up being strong enough mentally to catch a rat, and actually take it out on the porch with her brothers and sisters and kill it. Certain environments teach you certain things.

I need to admit Vick did wrong? Why would i need to admit he did wrong. That does nothing for me personally, nothing. He admitted he was guilty what more do you want?

One thing i think that everyone is missing is that I am not defending what Vick did I am defending the fact that he is a product of a culture that many in minority communities are aware of but very little is done to correct it until the police get involved. I am Stepping up and saying there is something that we can all do. writing negative emails about whoopi or talking crap about vick is not going to solve the problem. U can try to get whoopi in trouble or spew a few hateful words here and there about vick, but it wont solve the problem of dog fighting and animals being abused.

"If i was on the other side and was dog fighting, i wouldn't stop it and all your negative comments would fuel me into thinking i can do what i wanna do, and u cant tell me i cant.. but if you came to me in a different manor you would more of a positive effect of me and my thinking. Hate on top of hate does not make the world a better place."
^^^I had to learn that for myself. Now that I learn how young black youths react to negative feedback I cant better help them understand in a positive way. The above was not just said to u but to everyone. Two negative will never make something positive unless your dealing with something in mathematical terms.

I don't have any ill will towards anyone personally and stated that from the beginning. I am in fact debating the issue and not the poster. So please stop stressing that I feel any of you are bad people. I don't. I just have a way with words sometimes that shows my passion. I am proud of that. I rather use those words to make a difference and help than try to kick someone when they are down, or pick faults at someone when i have faults as well.

[La Princesa]

about people being offended that race is being bought up.. some cultural things are indicative to certain racial groups. We got Cock fighting in here in Puerto Rico and Mexcio..that deals with the racial groups or Hispanics or Latinos.

Dog fighting :which is prevalent in the south with black men as well as in OMAHA Nebraska with the black community. It also seems to effect from whats been said low income white males.

You must look at who is doing something what race of people do it even with the example of Asian child mutilation you must look at the race of the culture of people who do this in order to understand where it comes from so that you can help prevent this. Say that someone assumed that only football players fight dogs, then targeting one group would not solve the problem because no one took time to get to the route of the problem to see where it came from and the problem would still be out there.

My stance is that you can actually do something about it, even if it means going outside and sitting in your yard and letting young kids just see that dogs are loving creatures u can make a difference.

OR we can do what this thread was made for and just hope everyone sends hate mail to whoopi and so makes sure she conforms and stops saying whats on her mind. Going against the grain and saying something a bit different is no longer allowed. Shame on Whoopi. ""We all know vick was wrong Whoopi, so next time just say Vick was wrong and please dont bother to elaborate on it! When the media takes your quotes out of context dont come crying to us cause people hate you."

right guys?

[diggy4]

Alls cool with me....we may disagree on things but I too meant nothing personal. I have dealt with cultural issues and seen lots of bad things happen and I made it a point to raise my children to be color blind when it comes to skin. I know race has Nothing to do with this but it's been thrown out there and I did want to clear that up.

I guess the only person I was trying to addess Michael Vick...not a group of people as a whole.

I happen to LOVE Whoopi Goldberg and I loved Rosie too! I think media does twist things and leaves us all to interpret and that always leads to disagreements.

I can totally agree to disagree with you on somethings....In the end tho I think we want the same things....The violence towards animals to STOP and to see all of God's creatures (including humans) to be treated with nothing but love. I appreciate your point of views and I did misunderstand your post and took it wrong. I hope you can appreciate my passions as well, if we were all the same the world would be a boring boring place!

[JCarlson2004]

Originally Posted by jp4m2

IMO....The only difference in the people who get sucked into that kind of destructive life and the ones who don't are the ones with a strong will, determination, courage, commitment, morals, and a good character.....nothing worth while is easy, if we only had to do the easy stuff in life not much would get done.....
We certainly wouldn't have surgeons, chemists, doctors, engineers etc...etc. if they quit because it got hard, sheer will .... sure your background can put you at a disadvantage but it surly isn't a life sentence of doom and it can be over come.....how bad do you want it?

I agree.

[crystalsmom]

Originally Posted by diggy4

I can totally agree to disagree with you on somethings....In the end tho I think we want the same things....The violence towards animals to STOP and to see all of God's creatures (including humans) to be treated with nothing but love. I appreciate your point of views and I did misunderstand your post and took it wrong. I hope you can appreciate my passions as well, if we were all the same the world would be a boring boring place!