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Old 03-30-2014, 08:47 PM   #1
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Default WHY so much effort to save this dog?

http://news.yahoo.com/campaign-save-...204712494.html

Yes, I get it, the adults messed up bad in this situation, BUT... this dog did THAT much damage to a kid and people are petitioning NOT to have it put down? I don't get it. Why?

That dog mauled the child. It wasn't a nip, or even just a "bite"... his face suffered a lot of damage. Apparently the owner also states that the dog killed her other dog last year? Not that human aggression and dog aggression are alike in the slightest BUT...

There are sooo many dogs, including other pit bull-type dogs, in shelters that do not have bite records, have bite inhibition, and do not maul kids.

This is when I think that there is too many wacko's who think every dog can and must be saved. This dog had 40,000 ppl petition, and raised thousands of dollars... just why?? I am as much of a dog and animal lover & advocate as the next, but that money could go to vetting perfectly friendly dogs with no such history who are up for adoption.

I do think the babysitter of the child and the owner of dog should both be held responsible for this. Yes the child was on the dogs property, which was completely and utterly irresponsible, but no dog with the capability of doing this to a child should be allowed to continue to live IMO.

The current owner of the dog did not even want it saved, and was going to euthanize. So this is now a dog, without a home, that is being saved and will have strict regulations - teeth removed, muzzle, etc.

Normally I would be in favor of the dog, honestly and I will be the first to say that dogs bite sometimes and it doesn't make them vicious at all... but this wasn't just a "Bite" but an attack that will lead to "months and possibly years of reconstructive surgery."

Put that effort into the thousands of stable dogs that need help.

Sorry, rant over.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:57 PM   #2
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I read about this lady week and I don't get it either. That dog is dangerous and sadly sometimes dangerous dogs need to be PTS for everyone's safety.
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Old 03-30-2014, 09:17 PM   #3
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Wow that article is confusing. I think the person (Villa) who said it killed her dog is a neighbor/random person who was there.

I agree, I don't understand why there's such a push to save dogs like this. It would be one thing if the owner still wanted it and was willing to do whatever to keep it.

I also don't understand why there's such a push to spend thousands and force months of suffering on a very badly injured animal (not talking things like leg surgery or a liver problem, more like badly burned cats).

Neither side is helping pit bulls (the they're all evil side and the they're totally innocent they just have a bad rap side).
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Old 03-30-2014, 09:25 PM   #4
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Wow that article is confusing. I think the person (Villa) who said it killed her dog is a neighbor/random person who was there.

I agree, I don't understand why there's such a push to save dogs like this. It would be one thing if the owner still wanted it and was willing to do whatever to keep it.

I also don't understand why there's such a push to spend thousands and force months of suffering on a very badly injured animal (not talking things like leg surgery or a liver problem, more like badly burned cats).

Neither side is helping pit bulls (the they're all evil side and the they're totally innocent they just have a bad rap side).
I agree with this! And do think that the "pit bulls are always innocent/it's how they were raised" people do just as much harm as the "all pit bulls are evil killing machines" people.

I hate to say it but I've watched Pit Bulls & Parolees on Animal planet sometimes, and while I enjoy watching it, sometimes I question Why? When I see some dogs forced to live in the small cages, for years and years... some of them are permanent residents at the sanctuary because of bite histories, or whatever... gosh, I just feel like sometimes they'd be better off being PTS. What kind of a life is that if they have no chance of adoption at all? Unfortunately I think some people get into this mentality that they have to save them all, and get in over their heads.
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Old 03-30-2014, 11:20 PM   #5
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I agree with this! And do think that the "pit bulls are always innocent/it's how they were raised" people do just as much harm as the "all pit bulls are evil killing machines" people.

I hate to say it but I've watched Pit Bulls & Parolees on Animal planet sometimes, and while I enjoy watching it, sometimes I question Why? When I see some dogs forced to live in the small cages, for years and years... some of them are permanent residents at the sanctuary because of bite histories, or whatever... gosh, I just feel like sometimes they'd be better off being PTS. What kind of a life is that if they have no chance of adoption at all? Unfortunately I think some people get into this mentality that they have to save them all, and get in over their heads.
I like that show but even Tia says they all cant be saved because of bad breeding some cant be rehabilitated
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:37 AM   #6
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I agree with you on this one. It could be how mickey was tethered to one spot and he become very protective of his area...but to me he sounds extremely dangerous. its a lose lose situation either way and the babysitter should have know better than to allow that boy anywhere in that yard. I would have never even brought the child in that yard knowing the history on that dog. sad.
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:55 AM   #7
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I like that show but even Tia says they all cant be saved because of bad breeding some cant be rehabilitated
Just like there are dogs that are specifically bred to be in the show ring there are also dogs specifically bred to fight. It's a very selective effort on both ends. The genetics are studied and dogs are paired together to achieve certain qualities. So when people say it's all in the training I don't buy that argument all. The idea of people breeding dogs to be aggressive makes me so angry and then to take the aggression and train them to be killers just disgusts me.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:30 AM   #8
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I think this case really shows why dogs can't live chained up in a yard. They are intelligent, active animals that need socialization and attention. I think pit bulls are dogs just like any other dog, I don't think Mikey's breed had anything to do with the attack but rather had everything to do with him being chained up. What these advocates should really be fighting for is stricter laws about keeping dogs on chains.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:59 AM   #9
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I would have never even brought the child in that yard knowing the history on that dog. sad.
The only history we know about the dog is it may have killed another dog and there's a good chance the baby sitter didn't know that. The kid may have gone near the dog without problems before.

My neighbor's pit bull has attacked 2 people, a dog, and had killed various small animals. Most people on my street don't know that. The owner also lets small kids pet the dog when he's outside.
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:26 AM   #10
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Here in AZ, this has been ALL OVER the news and everyone is discussing it. Like you, Brit, so many people are confused as to why this particular case is receiving so much attention. I think part of the reason it's receiving so much support for the dog is bc the child went into the dog's territory to take his bone, so some are saying it's not the dog's fault - that the dog was being a dog. So, I think that's where some of the over-the-top support is coming from. I think some of it also may be coming from the belief of some that the humans were negligent and showed some irresponsible behavior, placing some onus on them as well.

To me, this dog sounds dangerous and unpredictable, sadly. I'm not opposed to him going to a sanctuary to live out his life if that's available (ie, like Best Friends Society), but I'm also not opposed to him being PTS if that's what's best for the greater good. By 'greater good', I mean in terms of helping a larger number of other adoptable dogs, rather than perhaps spending a small fortune on this one dog. In my ideal world, we'd be able to both rehab the biting dog, as well as save the many other adoptable dogs. BUT, we don't live in my ideal world.

Fighting/killing dog *can* be rehabbed - Michael Vick's dogs are the perfect example, via Best Friends. BUT, that kind of program simply isn't viable for each and every dog that displays this tragic and deadly behavior.
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:59 AM   #11
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The only history we know about the dog is it may have killed another dog and there's a good chance the baby sitter didn't know that. The kid may have gone near the dog without problems before.

My neighbor's pit bull has attacked 2 people, a dog, and had killed various small animals. Most people on my street don't know that. The owner also lets small kids pet the dog when he's outside.
I actually read on an article that it did kill the babysitters puppy a shepard I believe 7 months old I believe. I thought it was the babysitter's puppy the way I read it but maybe I am wrong on that.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:44 AM   #12
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I agree with you. But I do think the dog should be allowed to live if a professional is willing to take him on. I'm sure my dogs would be capable of similar things if left on a chain for years with just a bone. He is a dangerous dog. No fault of his own. He should be euthanized because there is no good place for him to go and it is a waste of money.

Removal of teeth is not acceptable.

BTW, Tia refused to take him. They are full and the last thing they heed is yet another dog with so many restrictions,
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:09 AM   #13
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I agree with you. But I do think the dog should be allowed to live if a professional is willing to take him on. I'm sure my dogs would be capable of similar things if left on a chain for years with just a bone. He is a dangerous dog. No fault of his own. He should be euthanized because there is no good place for him to go and it is a waste of money.

Removal of teeth is not acceptable.

BTW, Tia refused to take him. They are full and the last thing they heed is yet another dog with so many restrictions,
Yes she has taken some on there that are lifers and cant ever be adopted out that was the prerequisite when she was allowed to take them on.

When I say rehabilitated I mean taken on trained and able to be adopted back out. I have seen on Pit Bulls and parolees where there have been pit bulls that people have asked Tia to train and she has determined their behavior is too unpredictable and determines they are untrainable. She always says this is because of bad breeding and not because of lack of training. Now I know bad ownership can play a role but alot of these dogs have been bred to fight and that plays a role also
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:08 PM   #14
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I agree with you. But I do think the dog should be allowed to live if a professional is willing to take him on. I'm sure my dogs would be capable of similar things if left on a chain for years with just a bone. He is a dangerous dog. No fault of his own. He should be euthanized because there is no good place for him to go and it is a waste of money.

Removal of teeth is not acceptable.

BTW, Tia refused to take him. They are full and the last thing they heed is yet another dog with so many restrictions,



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Yes she has taken some on there that are lifers and cant ever be adopted out that was the prerequisite when she was allowed to take them on.

When I say rehabilitated I mean taken on trained and able to be adopted back out. I have seen on Pit Bulls and parolees where there have been pit bulls that people have asked Tia to train and she has determined their behavior is too unpredictable and determines they are untrainable. She always says this is because of bad breeding and not because of lack of training. Now I know bad ownership can play a role but alot of these dogs have been bred to fight and that plays a role also

I did not know that about Tia.

And yes, fighting dogs can absolutely be rehabilited BUT dog aggression is completely seperate from human aggression. Typically, dogs that come from fighting rings are amazing w/ people, because they HAVE to be, and have good bite inhibition in order for the people to sometimes get in the middle if need be. They're typically pretty good at not biting human hands, even fighting with a dog. BUT, when you get hoodlums from the cities breeding these dogs, anything can happen, really. Not like they're paying close attention to which dogs may have HA as well as DA.

I am advocate for pit bulls, but dog aggression is often part of their genetic makeup. Not *always* - there are lots of pits who are fine with other dogs, but most pit owners will tell you that crate & rotate once maturity hits is a huge possibility. And these dogs are typically amazing with children & families.

But yes, living on a chain your whole life with little to no human interaction and only a bone could definitely make a dog a bit nutty. I still think the reaction was way over-called for and that is why he should be PTS. While Jackson has never bit/growled at a human, I can't say for sure how he would react to a strange kid coming in to a yard, if he was tied up and not able to get away, and tried to take a high value item. He may very well bite, and that I wouldn't blame him for, but if he mauled the kid (even though he's smaller, so yes, not as much damage would be done), I am not sure what I would do or think. This dog held and shook (i.e. like a dog killing it's prey) so it doesn't seem like simply any normal bite.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:18 PM   #15
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I did not know that about Tia.

And yes, fighting dogs can absolutely be rehabilited BUT dog aggression is completely seperate from human aggression. Typically, dogs that come from fighting rings are amazing w/ people, because they HAVE to be, and have good bite inhibition in order for the people to sometimes get in the middle if need be. They're typically pretty good at not biting human hands, even fighting with a dog. BUT, when you get hoodlums from the cities breeding these dogs, anything can happen, really. Not like they're paying close attention to which dogs may have HA as well as DA.

I am advocate for pit bulls, but dog aggression is often part of their genetic makeup. Not *always* - there are lots of pits who are fine with other dogs, but most pit owners will tell you that crate & rotate once maturity hits is a huge possibility. And these dogs are typically amazing with children & families.

But yes, living on a chain your whole life with little to no human interaction and only a bone could definitely make a dog a bit nutty. I still think the reaction was way over-called for and that is why he should be PTS. While Jackson has never bit/growled at a human, I can't say for sure how he would react to a strange kid coming in to a yard, if he was tied up and not able to get away, and tried to take a high value item. He may very well bite, and that I wouldn't blame him for, but if he mauled the kid (even though he's smaller, so yes, not as much damage would be done), I am not sure what I would do or think. This dog held and shook (i.e. like a dog killing it's prey) so it doesn't seem like simply any normal bite.
That part is very troubling about the story.
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