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Old 04-18-2010, 10:08 AM   #46
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My point is that AKC endorses commercial breeding facilities for the income. I do not know and maybe you can provide to me where AKC has dropped puppy mill kennels? As long as AKC is involved with the Hunt Corporation they are part of the problem.
There have been many threads here on AKC suspensions, but for legal reasons those lists are no longer easily available. Too many sue-happy breeders. Yes, the AKC is a business; it's not a non-profit organization, like the YTCA, for example. The AKC definitely needs improving, and that's why I would like to see more than just large commercial breeders calling the shots, pet owners and reputable breeders should unite.

I don't know if you are aware of it, but the Canadian equivalent of the AKC, the Canadian Kennel Club is in serious financial trouble, and is asking it's members and breed clubs for donations. I seriously hope this doesn't happen with AKC. I imagine if they start hurting financially, they will have less money to do inspections, and when the USDA knows that a breeder is AKC registered, that aren't as likely to do frequent inspections, so it's a double whammy.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:16 AM   #47
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AKC's income is not dependent on Hunt Corporation (whole seller). And I'm not defending Hunt by all means. While registration of dogs do contribute somewhat to their income, dog shows are a bigger contributer.

But, that is not the point. What is being addressed is that if pet owners do register their, pet owners numbers would grow, therefore having an ability to have a voice in the direction AKC takes.

While AKC is not perfect, it is still the most desirable in upholding the purebred dog. Where others such APRI, UKC, CKC requirements have no where near the standards.
Sorry but you will never get me to think it is okay what AKC does with volume breeders and it is not ok in my opinion.

I really do not see pet owners having a voice in the direction AKC takes until I see the Parent Clubs having more pet owners have a voice in their clubs. How many pet only members do you have in the YTCA? I think someone fully educated but does not breed/show could still offer a lot to the club.

I still see AKC as the registry I would use but I think people need to fully understand what they are about and not have blinders on. AKC is a not for profit organization that spends millions of $$$ every year for the show breeders. I just feel they should also be protecting the dogs...this is where their income comes from and I read the "Dog Press" and I read their kennel reports. You can only hide behind "we are only a registry" for to long.

I really wish pet owners would become fully educated about the whole system and demand changes to state & federal laws to protect the dogs...not just breeders.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:21 AM   #48
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There have been many threads here on AKC suspensions, but for legal reasons those lists are no longer easily available. Too many sue-happy breeders. Yes, the AKC is a business; it's not a non-profit organization, like the YTCA, for example. The AKC definitely needs improving, and that's why I would like to see more than just large commercial breeders calling the shots, pet owners and reputable breeders should unite.

I don't know if you are aware of it, but the Canadian equivalent of the AKC, the Canadian Kennel Club is in serious financial trouble, and is asking it's members and breed clubs for donations. I seriously hope this doesn't happen with AKC. I imagine if they start hurting financially, they will have less money to do inspections, and when the USDA knows that a breeder is AKC registered, that aren't as likely to do frequent inspections, so it's a double whammy.
I read AKC's lists of suspension and it is not that many mills compared to breeders who who don't keep records or show people who don't play by the rules.

I also know the AKC's budget...give me a break..last count they only had like 7 inspectors ...but AKC rakes in millions every year.

I am fully aware of the Canadian Kennel Club and their problems. I went to their website but apparently they don't want outside people to review much of their programs.

Oh and AKC is a non-profit organization.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:31 AM   #49
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I read AKC's lists of suspension and it is not that many mills compared to breeders who who don't keep records or show people who don't play by the rules.

I also know the AKC's budget...give me a break..last count they only had like 7 inspectors ...but AKC rakes in millions every year.

I am fully aware of the Canadian Kennel Club and their problems. I went to their website but apparently they don't want outside people to review much of their programs.

Oh and AKC is a non-profit organization.
Lol, I thought they were a for profit organization! I'm not arguing the point that the AKC is not without it fault, I just think it's the only registry that can be trusted at all at this point.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:38 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by livingdustmops View Post
I really do not see pet owners having a voice in the direction AKC takes until I see the Parent Clubs having more pet owners have a voice in their clubs. How many pet only members do you have in the YTCA? I think someone fully educated but does not breed/show could still offer a lot to the club.

.
Yes, there is a % pet owner members in the YTCA. One does not have to be a breeder/exhibitor to qualify for membership. We also, have members that only work rescue, or pet legislation and have never bred before and/or not even owned pet. The membership is open to anyone that is willing to comply with what the mother club stands for and it's not about dog showing.

As matter of fact we would love to recruit people such Nancy. These people have the welfare of the breed at heart and are willing to do something about it.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:41 AM   #51
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Lol, I thought they were a for profit organization! I'm not arguing the point that the AKC is not without it fault, I just think it's the only registry that can be trusted at all at this point.
Please just take the time to read their annual report. It will open up your eyes to some of the issues I have with them and also their board meetings. I applaud they don't hide anything but I do believe they could do more to help dogs in this country. I have watched their legislation for the last 10 years and they have always voted for the breeders and the heck with the animals.

You also might want to subscribe to

THE DOG PRESS - THE #1 SOURCE FOR UNALIGNED DOG NEWS BY & FOR BREEDERS, EXHIBITORS, JUDGES, HANDLERS, BREED & KENNEL CLUBS & AKC, UKC DOG REGISTRIES

I have no problems that AKC is the registry that I would use but at this stage of the game I don't know if I could fully trust them. I have seen them do to many things over the years to protect some very poor breeders. I strongly believe everyone looking to buy a dog should get to know the breeder first as you and Mary have stated. I would never buy based on just AKC's name alone.

In todays day and age I don't understand why they don't require DNA on every dog registered..why not? If someone says it is too expensive then they are probably breeders that I would not want to buy a dog from...they are into profit.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:47 AM   #52
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Just sickening.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:48 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by livingdustmops View Post
Please just take the time to read their annual report. It will open up your eyes to some of the issues I have with them and also their board meetings. I applaud they don't hide anything but I do believe they could do more to help dogs in this country. I have watched their legislation for the last 10 years and they have always voted for the breeders and the heck with the animals.

You also might want to subscribe to

THE DOG PRESS - THE #1 SOURCE FOR UNALIGNED DOG NEWS BY & FOR BREEDERS, EXHIBITORS, JUDGES, HANDLERS, BREED & KENNEL CLUBS & AKC, UKC DOG REGISTRIES

I have no problems that AKC is the registry that I would use but at this stage of the game I don't know if I could fully trust them. I have seen them do to many things over the years to protect some very poor breeders. I strongly believe everyone looking to buy a dog should get to know the breeder first as you and Mary have stated. I would never buy based on just AKC's name alone.

In todays day and age I don't understand why they don't require DNA on every dog registered..why not? If someone says it is too expensive then they are probably breeders that I would not want to buy a dog from...they are into profit.
While you have brought up valids points and most of which I agree.

Let's not lose sight of what this thread is about. Supporting the reputable breeder, not buying from Puppy Mills, BYBers, Classifieds or internet. It's baby steps......
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:55 AM   #54
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Baby steps are fine but this story has been published here many times and so few members understand the full story. I think they should. Being naive does not help the dogs..the only thing that does is, responsible, reputable breeders who care along with pet owners who can help educate the public to what is really going on.
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:02 AM   #55
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While you have brought up valids points and most of which I agree.

Let's not lose sight of what this thread is about. Supporting the reputable breeder, not buying from Puppy Mills, BYBers, Classifieds or internet. It's baby steps......

I'm so glad that Nancy and others took the time to provide education about the realities of puppy mills. I wish I knew 10 years ago about puppy mills. Instead, I was the ignorant buyer. I waltzed right into a pet store, paid for Barney, and two weeks later received a call about "errors with paperwork" and I was instructed to "bring the dog back for the right one" -- oh big mistake there. I still was pretty ignorant but not really liking how the sale went down...to make a long story short, we ended up with Daisy for free.

The costs of two puppy mill dogs and poor breeding have been significant and the list is too long to enumerate here except to say that sometimes ignorance and convenience are far from bliss..

When we were ready to buy our Teddy a year and a half ago, we did not even consider a pet store, broker, or newspaper ad. We did look online, but something didn't feel right. I contacted YTCA breeders and went that route. Teddy came from a home with love, and was bred responsibly and for the betterment of the breed - the only way it should be done.

Let's keep supporting reputable breeders.
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:16 AM   #56
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Nancy...wow...this will need to be a sticky somewhere, don't you think? Let me know where you think it should be. I hope you are feeling okay after making this video, it must have been very difficult to put together - but the positive ripple effect it will have on humans and animals will hopefully buffer some of the after effects from putting it together.

You have done something amazing here, and it's indelible. Thank you.
Just a suggestion but is there any way we could make it that new members have to read this link before they can join?
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:27 AM   #57
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There have been many threads here on AKC suspensions, but for legal reasons those lists are no longer easily available. Too many sue-happy breeders. Yes, the AKC is a business; it's not a non-profit organization, like the YTCA, for example. The AKC definitely needs improving, and that's why I would like to see more than just large commercial breeders calling the shots, pet owners and reputable breeders should unite.

I don't know if you are aware of it, but the Canadian equivalent of the AKC, the Canadian Kennel Club is in serious financial trouble, and is asking it's members and breed clubs for donations. I seriously hope this doesn't happen with AKC. I imagine if they start hurting financially, they will have less money to do inspections, and when the USDA knows that a breeder is AKC registered, that aren't as likely to do frequent inspections, so it's a double whammy.
The AKC has been assertive in gaining funding. Not all are in favor of the things that they do do. But they have to be profitable. I feel like are. There are many places for them to get money from.

They appear to be financially strong. However, think about all of the liters that aren't registered. Just 10 yrs ago the AKC & USDA were tied up w/ together. Every liter in a Puppymills was registered w/ the AKC. Now they don't get as much from them. Those new breed registers hurt their profits greatly. I say those as if there are on every corner. lol. Is there more than one?

If they struggle financially. I think they will open up to registering mixed breeds or something to capture the folks they're losing to the newer registry. Inspection isn't an option, it's the law. It seems like the mills would have to pay for them anyway, right? Are they free to the mills?
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:50 AM   #58
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Thank you Nancy.

I had to make myself finish the video. It was very hard to watch and the tears will not stop. I had never seen anything like that. I knew that puppymills existed but didn't really have an image to go with the name. I will never get those sad eyes out of my head.
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:04 PM   #59
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Thank you Nancy.

I had to make myself finish the video. It was very hard to watch and the tears will not stop. I had never seen anything like that. I knew that puppymills existed but didn't really have an image to go with the name. I will never get those sad eyes out of my head.
Thank you for taking the time to watch it, I know it is very hard to watch, and I want everyone to go away with this with one thought. I will not enable a bad breeder!
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Old 04-18-2010, 05:19 PM   #60
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You know, I've seen many of these videos before and they never cease to disgust me. What was amazing to me in this video is that some of those dogs still had some spirit left in them, despite a horrible existence. There was one in particular that still had mischief in his eyes.

It's good to see this get a reaction from so many. There are countless animals suffering this fate. I would encourage all YTers to visit the animal welfare and protection forum and also the news forum regularly if they're truly interested in this and other issues. Take what you learn and use it to educate others.

After watching this, it's obvious just how much that doggy in the window really costs.
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