My baby is missing I need help!

[Donna Jean]

Originally Posted by Galatea

Without the consent of the owner or renter of the house, the police cannot search or enter the house without a search warrant signed by a judge. They can even hear barking - it doesn't matter - they can't enter.

If the occupants are tipped off that someone is looking for the dog they can move that dog before the police get a search warrrant. The cops may not have legally sufficient reasonable suspicion to believe the dog is there until after they have gone to the house, but then they have to get the search warrant if they don't get consent to search. In that time, the dog can be moved.

Thank you Galatea for coming on line. I think we should get the search warrents before we go to the houses. Can you get a search warrent without the name of the person who is renting the house, and can you get a blank search warrent signed to get into the grandmothers house when her or if her son is willing to give her address. Just on the say so of a young boy who idintified Zeke as their dog Tahoe, who lives with their grandmother?

[Galatea]

Sorry it wouldn't let me edit to make it more clear so here is my edit:

Without the consent of the owner or renter of the house, the police cannot search or enter the house without a search warrant signed by a judge. They can even hear barking - it doesn't matter - they can't enter. If the dog is in plain site in the house and they are at the door, and Zeke is ID'd, then they can enter and seize the dog without the warrant. If the dog goes into the yard - front or back and is in plain site and is ID'd then they can seize the dog from either yard, but not the house.

If the occupants are tipped off that someone is looking for the dog they can move that dog before the police get a search warrrant. The cops may not have legally sufficient reasonable suspicion to believe that Zeke is there until after they have gone to the house, heard a dog bark, and seen suspicious behavior from an occupant (this assumes they haven't seen the actual dog and it hasn't been ID'd) In that scenario, the cops still have to get the search warrant if they don't get consent to search. In that time, the dog can be moved.

[Galatea]

The police have to get the search warrant - you can't. All they need is reasonable suspicion to believe the dog is at a specific address and is being held illegally - they make a declaration and then a judge determines whether the suspicion is legally sufficient. A judge may or may not believe a kid saying the dog looks like Tahoe is enough. It is up to the judge. The warrant attaches to the address, not the people at the address, so it doesn't matter who is or isn't there. They don't need a name, just an address.

[Donna Jean]

Originally Posted by Galatea

Sorry it wouldn't let me edit to make it more clear so here is my edit:

Without the consent of the owner or renter of the house, the police cannot search or enter the house without a search warrant signed by a judge. They can even hear barking - it doesn't matter - they can't enter. If the dog is in plain site in the house and they are at the door, and Zeke is ID'd, then they can enter and seize the dog without the warrant. If the dog goes into the yard - front or back and is in plain site and is ID'd then they can seize the dog from either yard, but not the house.

If the occupants are tipped off that someone is looking for the dog they can move that dog before the police get a search warrrant. The cops may not have legally sufficient reasonable suspicion to believe that Zeke is there until after they have gone to the house, heard a dog bark, and seen suspicious behavior from an occupant (this assumes they haven't seen the actual dog and it hasn't been ID'd) In that scenario, the cops still have to get the search warrant if they don't get consent to search. In that time, the dog can be moved.

Thank you that is all very clear. I am asking if we can get a search warrant before going to the house on suspicion that the dog could be there or at the grandmothers, of whom we do not have an address, unless the Son is willing to give it to us. Will the Judge sign a search warrent without an address, in knowledge that the son has the address and when it is give, we will fill out the address of the search warrant that the judge has signed. Or do we have to have the name of the grandmother and her address before we can get the search warrent. If that is the case, they would surley be tipped off, and of course move the dog, and at that point the search warrant would be usless.

[Donna Jean]

Originally Posted by Donna Jean

Thank you that is all very clear. I am asking if we can get a search warrant before going to the house on suspicion that the dog could be there or at the grandmothers, of whom we do not have an address, unless the Son is willing to give it to us. Will the Judge sign a search warrent without an address, in knowledge that the son has the address and when it is give, we will fill out the address of the search warrant that the judge has signed. Or do we have to have the name of the grandmother and her address before we can get the search warrent. If that is the case, they would surley be tipped off, and of course move the dog, and at that point the search warrant would be usless.

Also can you get a search warrent for the house without knowing the names of the people who live there?

[Galatea]

Judge needs an address. Cops can find that out through their investigation, confirm the address and then execute the warrant.

All search warrants are very clear about the property address and the exact description of what can and can't be earched is all in the warrant

[Galatea]

Yes. See above. They need the address. They must have reasonable suspicion that that address attaches to the people that may be holding the dog illegally.

[Galatea]

Please note that the cops may not get off their butts and get a warrant and try and handle it without getting one - they just may go to the door. You have no control over that.

[Donna Jean]

Originally Posted by Galatea

The police have to get the search warrant - you can't. All they need is reasonable suspicion to believe the dog is at a specific address and is being held illegally - they make a declaration and then a judge determines whether the suspicion is legally sufficient. A judge may or may not believe a kid saying the dog looks like Tahoe is enough. It is up to the judge. The warrant attaches to the address, not the people at the address, so it doesn't matter who is or isn't there. They don't need a name, just an address.

That is great news!!!!!!!! When shown a picture of the flyer, the child said that is Tahoe Dad, and the dad gave him a wideyed look, and made up some excuses that first his grandmother has Tahoe, than said the grandmother had seen him at the intersection of such and such street, it is posted on the thread about 5 post back. So I don't know where the grandmother lives, and I presume we can not go door to door, down the whole street looking for the house Zeke is in without the address from her Son.

Also is Maureen allowed to go with the policeman to id ZEKE on the spot, or does the policeman have to bring in any small yorkie he sees and have his micro chip checked? Which will prove it is ZEKE

If they go down the street with flyers and just talking to people who live there and they hear a small dog barking that sounds like Zeke can they ask to see the dog, and ask the people if they have proof the dog is theirs?

[Donna Jean]

Originally Posted by Galatea

Please note that the cops may not get off their butts and get a warrant and try and handle it without getting one - they just may go to the door. You have no control over that.

That is sad, what if they put the dog in a blanket so he can't be heard barking, without a warrant the police can not enter that house.

Galatea, do you know how long it takes to get a search warrant if the police will listen to our pleas for one in order to find ZEKE? If we do not have a search warrent when we get to the house than decide to get one because we heard a dog bark but could not see it by the time we got a search warrant they could move the dog to who knows where.

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by Donna Jean

Also is Maureen allowed to go with the policeman to id ZEKE on the spot, or does the policeman have to bring in any small yorkie he sees and have his micro chip checked? Which will prove it is ZEKE

Cops decide if Maureen goes or not and that is up to them and depends on their policies.

The cop does not have a right to simply seize any yorkie he sees and take it to be scanned. That is a violation of the 4th amendment rights of the people at the house. He can do so, IF he has a search warrant or IF the dog is positively ID's as being Zeke.

Originally Posted by Donna Jean

If they go down the street with flyers and just talking to people who live there and they hear a small dog barking that sounds like Zeke can they ask to see the dog, and ask the people if they have proof the dog is theirs?

They can ask all they want. The people have the right to say nothing, not answer, etc.

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by Donna Jean

That is sad, what if they put the dog in a blanket so he can't be heard barking, without a warrant the police can not enter that house.

That is correct. Without a warrant, the dog must be seen inside the house while people are outside of it, positively ID'd in their presence, and then the police can enter and immeidately seize the dog IF they want to. There can't be a delay between the ID and the seizure. They must be present.

Originally Posted by Donna Jean

Galatea, do you know how long it takes to get a search warrant if the police will listen to our pleas for one in order to find ZEKE? If we do not have a search warrent when we get to the house than decide to get one because we heard a dog bark but could not see it by the time we got a search warrant they could move the dog to who knows where.

Warrants in emergencies can be obtained in 30 minutes or less - however, I doubt the police will consider this an emergency.

[Donna Jean]

Originally Posted by Galatea

Cops decide if Maureen goes or not and that is up to them and depends on their policies.How can they ID the dog with out Maureen, he could have had his hair cut, and the policeman would not be able to tell it is Zeke from the picture he has, and if Maureen was there, the dog would come running to her, and for sure she would know her dog in any different haircut. Or he could be really dirty, and the police may not think it is the same dog. Is there any way to demand that Maureen go for the ID of her dog?

The cop does not have a right to simply seize any yorkie he sees and take it to be scanned. That is a violation of the 4th amendment rights of the people at the house. He can do so, IF he has a search warrant or IF the dog is positively ID's as being Zeke. I don't think anyone but Maureen could Positively ID Zeke.


They can ask all they want. The people have the right to say nothing, not answer, etc.

Unless the dog is seen and ID?

[Donna Jean]

Originally Posted by Galatea

That is correct. Without a warrant, the dog must be seen inside the house while people are outside of it, positively ID'd in their presence, and then the police can enter and immeidately seize the dog IF they want to. There can't be a delay between the ID and the seizure. They must be present.



Warrants in emergencies can be obtained in 30 minutes or less - however, I doubt the police will consider this an emergency.

The way these people can move a dog in a matter of minutes how could they consider this NOT an emergency.

Would it help if we had a lawyer along, and if so would you be willing to help us if we paid you?

[Galatea]

Unless the dog is seen and ID?

I don't understand your question.