Deposit/bad Checks???? - Page 3 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Bruce's_Mom · 10-11-2006, 09:10 AM

All may not be lost...Did the check say deposit or anything of the like in the memo line? Deposits can be treated in 2 ways generally (1) as a true deposit to be held in escrow, or (2) as a surety from the buyer that they are going to buy--> think of it this way every contract in order to be valid must (1) have an offer showing that you are willing to enter into a binding agreement; here your offer to sell for $1800 (2) an acceptance the buyers manifestation of intent to accept your offer, the giving of the $500. Now she cannot back out of that contract for the most part, unless there is a legal reason to void or rescind the contract...I would not try to argue this however if you went to small claims...BUT every jurisdiction in the country regcognizes something called Promissory Estoppel. What that means is that when someone makes you a promise (including writing a check, gauranteeing to buy a pup) and you act in reliance on that promise to your detriment, but they fail to come through, you are entitled to the benefit of the bargain or they are estopped from failure to perform. I would guess in this case it would be limited to the consequences of the bad check. It is maybe worth a shot, small claims court does not cost a whole lot, and this person is so irresponsible sounding that they may just not show up in which case right or wrong you would get a default judgement.

SweetCuteness · 10-11-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tophersmom

just wanted to add that I agree also with lovedorkyyorkies...I'm questioning as to how she would be allowed to put a stop payment on a cheque after 4 days. I thought that the time period to be able to do that was shorter. Each bank must be different, I guess.

oops...sorry about posting this twice...i hit the wrong button!

There is no time limit for placing a stop payment on a check. The only limitation is that the check has not been presented for payment. If it has, there is no way for the bank to stop the funds from moving.

SweetCuteness · 10-11-2006, 09:32 AM

I worked for a bank for many years. In the office that I worked in, we dealt with a lot of legalities and complaints. Unfortunately, you would be the one that would be responsible for the fees - even if you tried to take her to small claims court. They would see it as your responsibility to make certain that the funds have cleared before you try to spend the money.

It does suck to be burned like that - similar things have happened to me as well. In the future, just so you know, checks can clear in a day now - so if you deposit the check into your account the same day that it's given to you, you might have a lesser chance of this happening. Or maybe a contract stating "non-refundable deposit"?

Sorry you had this happen to you.

I don't know what bank you bank with, but if you sit down and explain the situation to the branch manager, they'll most likely at least reverse SOME of the fees on their side for you.

SnowWa · 10-11-2006, 12:34 PM

I would be so made that I would be spitting up nails.....

But - I can say that I never write checks against any personal check that someone has given me - until it clears. The only exception to this might be a check from my daughter or sister, etc.

I'm sure you'll never do this again...

And - I see nothing wrong with personal checks and accepting them -- if you're willing to wait until they clear before you complete any transaction.

Sorry - and again --- I would be mad too. But I guarantee it would never happen to me again...

Carol Jean

yorkieangel · 10-11-2006, 03:17 PM

I'm sorry but the whole post seems crazy to me.
You said you wrote a bunch of checks that bounced....WHY? You mean you just started writing checks when you knew her money had not cleared yet???? It seems you were the one writing bad checks ...Not her. She did a STOP PAYMENT but you were writing checks without money in your account with the HOPE her check would clear before yours bounced?????

i also don't understand why NOW you are calling her a bad person and saying how horrible she was for wanting to crate her dog 12 hours aday..... but you thought that was fine when you were getting $1800.

Maybe I'm reading something wrong here... I just don't know??????

AllyKenyon · 10-11-2006, 04:09 PM

We have had a few bounced checks in the past and our bank still understands some circumstances and waives the fees for us alot. we are lucky i guess...i think out of all the bounced checks we have only had like 3 or so that we have had to pay the fees for...i guess our bank isnt to worried about gettin your money as they are helpin you out a little. this sucks that you had to deal with this

makemepretty · 10-12-2006, 03:52 AM

Anyone who is thinking about using paypal for payments:

Paypal only covers payments made with a CC. If you use funds already in your account or from a bank transfer, it is NOT protected. I had an ebay scare and read everything I could on the site. They can only protect your money if payment is made from a charge card. Sometimes they'll cover up to $1,000 but that's if it falls in a small amount of guide lines. Just wanted to let you know because I almost lost $2,000...never pay with available funds in your account.

lksdolls · 10-12-2006, 06:05 AM

I didn't read all the posts so if this was said before, I apologize. You should never, and I repeat NEVER consider using funds from a check until it has been cleared by your bank which is usually 7 to 10 days.

SnowWa · 10-12-2006, 10:54 PM

agree -- If you write checks prior to a check clearing in your account -- you are writing checks against money that you don't have yet. This is a lesson that a lot of people have to learn the hard way.

So- if a check you deposit to your account receives a "stop payment" or if it "bounces" --- there you are with no funds in your account......

After a deposited check clears - have fun - go spend the money - it's yours!
But not before!!

***** Everyone has the right to stop payment on a check - and more often than not - it is done without calling the party to whom the check was written --- but it would have been nice if she had called you.

Don't be afraid to accept checks - but from now on - before you start spending the money - give them time to clear.......

Carol Jean

yorkykisses · 10-12-2006, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miezzi

I agree that she should have notified you that she was going to put the stop payment on your check. It would have been common descency. But, she should not be responsible for your bank fees.

I am self employed, so I always get checks from people. That is my income. Knowing that any of those checks can bounce, I have a reserve in my checking account that will cover any thing if someone bounces a check on me and I happen to over draft my account. Very rarely happens, but its better to be covered. And yes, I have had stop payments also.

But you should never write checks on money in your account that HAS NOT cleared yet. Its common sense. You should always wait till that check has cleared and it shows up as cashed. Its not rocket science!

IMO, its not good business to go after someone to make them pay for your mistake. Maybe you should keep a reserve on your account from now on.

I totally agree!!!

For one thing I never spend a deposit until AFTER the puppy leaves my home with the new owners! Many things can happen before the puppy is able to leave your home. It you spend the deposit before the puppy leaves and something happens would you have the money to refund the deposit?

Liked mentioned above you should NEVER write checks on money that has NOT cleared your bank. If this is something that you normally practice you should get cash next time.

I also believe that if a person places a deposit on a puppy and something happens that they cannot take the puppy you should refund the deposit. I do not believe that you should keep someone's money if they do not take the puppy.

smmrpm · 10-16-2006, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txshopper73

This is what I do if I receive a personal check from someone (not very often). I go directly to their bank and cash it. That way, no waiting on my part.

Only problem with this is now a lot of banks have gone to charging a $5 or more fee when cashing a check from someone at their bank UNLESS you also have an account there!! I think this is ridiculous and rude!! Especially when it is something like a birthday check or something like that...but in any case I would be offended if I wrote a check to someone who tried to cash it at my bank and got charged $5!!

isevilla · 10-17-2006, 11:50 AM

Just thought I would give my 2 cents on this topic.

I worked for many different banks and for many years here in IL. I also own two businesses.

Unfortunately you are responsible for all the fees that incurred with this deposit. Why you ask? Well as far as the bank sees it you should not assume that the check is going to clear until it actually does. Now adays its a much faster process since theyre processed electronically. It can still take days to clear and for next time wait until it clears before spending the funds. Depending on the person who you talk to is in a good mood or not you may or may not be able to recover those fees. The bank is under no obligation to refund them as they will see it being your fault in the first place.

The other posts about the deposits going into an escrow account is correct as well. Anytime you receive a deposit for a product or merchandise you are selling and require a deposit that deposit must go into an escrow account until the merchandise is fully paid for. Once all is paid in full and the puppy goes home then you can turn around and use the funds. This process protects you and the buyer.

You should always use a contract of some sort and have a disclaimer that the deposit is non refundable after a set amount of days etc to insure that a person just doesnt hold a puppy for a week and then change their mind cause they ran out of money till next payday. this process 1). insures serious buyers 2). your not holding a puppy for someone who is not serious about buying it and lose out on a sale that could have happened while you were waiting. By using the contract the buyer is bound by the deposit and if in this case they cancel their check then you have a right to fight it in small claims court.

Paypal is not as guaranteed as some people think. In most cases paypal will reverse a payment that someone has made in a heart beat first and then follow proceedures later. They will almost always take the side of the buyer over the merchant. It can take up to 14 days to try and get your money back and its not an easy process either.

My advice to you is:

1. Dont mix your business and personal funds in one account
2. Open an account that will be used for deposits, holding, etc and dont use these funds until the sale is completed and the puppy goes home.
3. Make a contract stating that the person is bound by their deposit and that the deposit is non refundable. Also state that if the deposit bounces that they will liable for all fees from both your account and theirs and any associated costs, fees including by not limited to lawyers fees etc. This will definately scare a wishy washy customer away if there are any doubts.
4. Dont ever spend any money until the sale is actually completed and puppy is at their new home. This doesnt mean not to cash or deposit the funds by all means process the funds asap even if you have to go to their bank to cash their check. Leave the funds collecting in your new escrow account. Once the sale if final then move funds to your other personal or business account.
5. Get overdraft protection

These days you have to be so careful with selling anything to anyone. We should no longer assume that people are honest anymore. You have to treat everyone the same and dont let your guard down. Once that puppy is gone its going to be extremely expensive for you to persue anything in court without proper documentation, contracts, etc

Good Luck and I hope you make some changes to your business practices before its too late.

10-11-2006, 09:10 AM	#31
Bruce's_Mom YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 779	All may not be lost...Did the check say deposit or anything of the like in the memo line? Deposits can be treated in 2 ways generally (1) as a true deposit to be held in escrow, or (2) as a surety from the buyer that they are going to buy--> think of it this way every contract in order to be valid must (1) have an offer showing that you are willing to enter into a binding agreement; here your offer to sell for $1800 (2) an acceptance the buyers manifestation of intent to accept your offer, the giving of the $500. Now she cannot back out of that contract for the most part, unless there is a legal reason to void or rescind the contract...I would not try to argue this however if you went to small claims...BUT every jurisdiction in the country regcognizes something called Promissory Estoppel. What that means is that when someone makes you a promise (including writing a check, gauranteeing to buy a pup) and you act in reliance on that promise to your detriment, but they fail to come through, you are entitled to the benefit of the bargain or they are estopped from failure to perform. I would guess in this case it would be limited to the consequences of the bad check. It is maybe worth a shot, small claims court does not cost a whole lot, and this person is so irresponsible sounding that they may just not show up in which case right or wrong you would get a default judgement. __________________ Bruce's Dogster Page http://www.dogster.com/?177273

10-11-2006, 09:32 AM	#33
SweetCuteness I <3 Ferdinand Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,444	I worked for a bank for many years. In the office that I worked in, we dealt with a lot of legalities and complaints. Unfortunately, you would be the one that would be responsible for the fees - even if you tried to take her to small claims court. They would see it as your responsibility to make certain that the funds have cleared before you try to spend the money. It does suck to be burned like that - similar things have happened to me as well. In the future, just so you know, checks can clear in a day now - so if you deposit the check into your account the same day that it's given to you, you might have a lesser chance of this happening. Or maybe a contract stating "non-refundable deposit"? Sorry you had this happen to you. I don't know what bank you bank with, but if you sit down and explain the situation to the branch manager, they'll most likely at least reverse SOME of the fees on their side for you. __________________ Britta ...and Ferdinand too

10-11-2006, 12:34 PM	#34
SnowWa YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: USA Posts: 2,992	I would be so made that I would be spitting up nails..... But - I can say that I never write checks against any personal check that someone has given me - until it clears. The only exception to this might be a check from my daughter or sister, etc. I'm sure you'll never do this again... And - I see nothing wrong with personal checks and accepting them -- if you're willing to wait until they clear before you complete any transaction. Sorry - and again --- I would be mad too. But I guarantee it would never happen to me again... Carol Jean __________________ http://tinypic.com/ipxhmb.jpg A Yorkie is worth a thousand words.

10-11-2006, 03:17 PM	#35
yorkieangel Rescue Angel Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: md Posts: 1,530	I'm sorry but the whole post seems crazy to me. You said you wrote a bunch of checks that bounced....WHY? You mean you just started writing checks when you knew her money had not cleared yet???? It seems you were the one writing bad checks ...Not her. She did a STOP PAYMENT but you were writing checks without money in your account with the HOPE her check would clear before yours bounced????? i also don't understand why NOW you are calling her a bad person and saying how horrible she was for wanting to crate her dog 12 hours aday..... but you thought that was fine when you were getting $1800. Maybe I'm reading something wrong here... I just don't know?????? __________________ Yorkieangel

10-11-2006, 04:09 PM	#36
AllyKenyon Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 168	We have had a few bounced checks in the past and our bank still understands some circumstances and waives the fees for us alot. we are lucky i guess...i think out of all the bounced checks we have only had like 3 or so that we have had to pay the fees for...i guess our bank isnt to worried about gettin your money as they are helpin you out a little. this sucks that you had to deal with this __________________ The Kenyon Family Ally, Ivan, Rylee, & McKinzy Fergie Mangle

10-12-2006, 03:52 AM	#37
makemepretty YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Middleville Posts: 933	Anyone who is thinking about using paypal for payments: Paypal only covers payments made with a CC. If you use funds already in your account or from a bank transfer, it is NOT protected. I had an ebay scare and read everything I could on the site. They can only protect your money if payment is made from a charge card. Sometimes they'll cover up to $1,000 but that's if it falls in a small amount of guide lines. Just wanted to let you know because I almost lost $2,000...never pay with available funds in your account. __________________ http://www.dogster.com/pet_page.php?j=t&i=369717

10-12-2006, 06:05 AM	#38
lksdolls YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 1,105	I didn't read all the posts so if this was said before, I apologize. You should never, and I repeat NEVER consider using funds from a check until it has been cleared by your bank which is usually 7 to 10 days. __________________ Linda and her Baker's Dozen, RIP my angels Reggie & Bo

10-12-2006, 10:54 PM	#39
SnowWa YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: USA Posts: 2,992	agree -- If you write checks prior to a check clearing in your account -- you are writing checks against money that you don't have yet. This is a lesson that a lot of people have to learn the hard way. So- if a check you deposit to your account receives a "stop payment" or if it "bounces" --- there you are with no funds in your account...... After a deposited check clears - have fun - go spend the money - it's yours! But not before!! ***** Everyone has the right to stop payment on a check - and more often than not - it is done without calling the party to whom the check was written --- but it would have been nice if she had called you. Don't be afraid to accept checks - but from now on - before you start spending the money - give them time to clear....... Carol Jean __________________ http://tinypic.com/ipxhmb.jpg A Yorkie is worth a thousand words.

10-17-2006, 11:50 AM	#42
isevilla Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Joliet, IL Posts: 52	Just thought I would give my 2 cents on this topic. I worked for many different banks and for many years here in IL. I also own two businesses. Unfortunately you are responsible for all the fees that incurred with this deposit. Why you ask? Well as far as the bank sees it you should not assume that the check is going to clear until it actually does. Now adays its a much faster process since theyre processed electronically. It can still take days to clear and for next time wait until it clears before spending the funds. Depending on the person who you talk to is in a good mood or not you may or may not be able to recover those fees. The bank is under no obligation to refund them as they will see it being your fault in the first place. The other posts about the deposits going into an escrow account is correct as well. Anytime you receive a deposit for a product or merchandise you are selling and require a deposit that deposit must go into an escrow account until the merchandise is fully paid for. Once all is paid in full and the puppy goes home then you can turn around and use the funds. This process protects you and the buyer. You should always use a contract of some sort and have a disclaimer that the deposit is non refundable after a set amount of days etc to insure that a person just doesnt hold a puppy for a week and then change their mind cause they ran out of money till next payday. this process 1). insures serious buyers 2). your not holding a puppy for someone who is not serious about buying it and lose out on a sale that could have happened while you were waiting. By using the contract the buyer is bound by the deposit and if in this case they cancel their check then you have a right to fight it in small claims court. Paypal is not as guaranteed as some people think. In most cases paypal will reverse a payment that someone has made in a heart beat first and then follow proceedures later. They will almost always take the side of the buyer over the merchant. It can take up to 14 days to try and get your money back and its not an easy process either. My advice to you is: 1. Dont mix your business and personal funds in one account 2. Open an account that will be used for deposits, holding, etc and dont use these funds until the sale is completed and the puppy goes home. 3. Make a contract stating that the person is bound by their deposit and that the deposit is non refundable. Also state that if the deposit bounces that they will liable for all fees from both your account and theirs and any associated costs, fees including by not limited to lawyers fees etc. This will definately scare a wishy washy customer away if there are any doubts. 4. Dont ever spend any money until the sale is actually completed and puppy is at their new home. This doesnt mean not to cash or deposit the funds by all means process the funds asap even if you have to go to their bank to cash their check. Leave the funds collecting in your new escrow account. Once the sale if final then move funds to your other personal or business account. 5. Get overdraft protection These days you have to be so careful with selling anything to anyone. We should no longer assume that people are honest anymore. You have to treat everyone the same and dont let your guard down. Once that puppy is gone its going to be extremely expensive for you to persue anything in court without proper documentation, contracts, etc Good Luck and I hope you make some changes to your business practices before its too late.