Dare I start a question about puppymills...here goes

[MikaTallulah]

[MikaTallulah]

This is what I know- I have yet to meet a reputable breeder who actually makes money on their litters. They all have full time jobs &/or spouses with full time jobs. They are attempting to further the breed and will probably always be loosing money.

It can easily cost $10,000 to show and title a female. I know Golden retriever breeder who spend have spent close to $21,000 before the first pups even leaves their house at 8 weeks. If they only have 10 pups and see all the pups at pet quality for 1200- The entire litter income would be $12000. Some females are only able to have 1 litter due to complications for their first delivery or may only have 1 pup- Rare but it does happen. It would require at least 4 litters for them to break even overall.

Breeding is a labor of love.

[Geoffreysmom]

There are over 5 million healthy dogs Euthanized in the US every year. There are more than 600 million unwanted dogs on the planet. Yorkies are a favorite of Puppy Mills, Backyard Breeders....and any other kind of Breeder because they are small, inexpensive to feed....and people are willing to pay fortunes for them. Just look on YouTube some videos of Puppy Mills or Puppy Auctions and it will break your heart. If we all love our dogs....and our Yorkies...like we say we do...we can't ignore this. We should quit breeding dogs until we can take care of the ones we have. I rescued my little guy that was abandoned in the snow by a bunch of drug addicts. We love him to bits. Everyone has to wake up!

[Geoffreysmom]

In the US and Canada there are millions of unwanted dogs murdered (euthanized) every year. If we love dogs as much as we say we do .....we have to be aware this is happening and do something about it. Breeding to 'make a few bucks' when there are so many dogs in need of homes is heartless. For every dog bought from a Breeder.....one dog is murdered. Little dogs, Purebreds, senior dogs. There are just too many dogs....and if we don't care enough to do something....who will?

[yakkwak]

Hi. Let me just address the part about making money. There's NOTHING wrong with someone wanting to make money from breeding. It's HOW they make their money that is the issue. If optimal treatment to the dogs is compromised just to increase profits, then that is not moral (don't use the word ethical - that word is often misused on this and many sites - look up the definitions). If a breeder can turn a profit while simultaneously preserving optimal health and standard of care, then that is great. IMO, someone who bashes profit-making alone for its own sake is just ignorant. However, from what I understand, it is extremely, extremely difficult to provide adequate level of care and turn a profit at the same time. Very few moral breeders end up doing for profit, rather they do it for the love of the breed. The "greeders" are the ones that don't care about the dogs. With regard to the word, "teacup", and other similar words, people need to generalize to help identify the immoral breeders and, in doing so, sometimes, capture those with purer hearts, along with the evil ones. Don't know of another way around that one, however.

[Sunnydayz]

I myself don't believe you will be making much money when breeding properly. I once had a male and female chow, when my female went into heat, I separated them immediately. Unfortunately my male literally chewed a hole through my back door while I was at work and got into the house to get to her. To make the best of the situation, she had the pups and I immediately had them both fixed. By the time I payed all the vet care and everything raising the pups to 12 weeks old, it cost me more than what I made :-) I just wanted healthy happy puppies and was not worried about making money, rather I was more worried that the pups were super healthy and went to the right homes. I probably could have sold them for much more than I did, as the dad had 27 champion generations before him, but I never had any intention of breeding.

On the word micro or teacup, I have issues with this, as I rescued Gizmo from such a breeder. He was in a hypoglycemic coma from being starved, from the breeder not only breeding tinies, but also starving the pups to stunt their growth, and he almost died just to fit those descriptions. It took many vet visits and care to save him, and get him healthy. Thankfully now at 6 months old he is just over 4 lbs and perfectly healthy so far and on track to be of normal size. There is no such thing as a teacup or micro.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by amyazer

yes but open frontanels are not a bad thing dogs can live there whole life with them and be healthy... everything else well yes thats why alot of vets here say mixing a two breeds together is healthier

Taken from: Fontanelle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of the more serious problems that can affect canines is known as an "open fontanelle," which occurs when the skull bones at the top of the head fail to close. The problem is often found in conjunction with hydrocephalus, which is a condition in which too much fluid is found within and around the brain, placing pressure on the brain and surrounding tissues. Often the head will appear dome-shaped, and the open fontanelle is noticeable as a "soft spot" on the top of the dog's head. The fluid-filled spaces within the brain, known as ventricles, also become swollen. The increased pressure damages or prevents the development of brain tissue

.

Can you tell me why you think the above is in some way not a big deal? Forgive me if someone else posted the same information, but that particular post of yours stood out to me.
Most of the features mentioned above are characteristics people look for. I think it's called "hello kitty" look by some. So, a greeder, backyard breeder, or "person who just happened to breed dogs for some extra cash and so far has been lucky not to have sick dogs" may go for this look because it's desired. Simple basic economics right? Supply and deman right? So they try it once. Healthy puppies. Yay! Maybe I can try it again. Double yay! No sick puppies. Maybe I can do it a third time and finish paying off my car. Triple yay! So far so good. Oh wait.... A pup died because of some genetic issue (that we may not discuss based on your first post). But the puppy lived fine for 4 years so really, not my problem anymore. See the problem?

Most new puppy owners tend to look at their pup they have in front of them. If in that moment, nothing tragic happens, the breeder gets rave reviews for the cute puppy. I know I'm guilty of the same thing. As soon as Kaji came home I posted a ton of pictures and was singing the breeders praises because Kaji was home and he was fine. Then I found the fleas, and the LP, and his anxiety, the skin issues... Did you know that dispositions can also be inherited? Its been 4 years since Kaji came home. To this day, he will randomly be anxious, and wet the floor like he's scared of me. If you didn't know me and my puppy and saw that, wouldn't you think that maybe I beat him or am abusive in any way? The first year I had him, there were nights I felt like the most disgusting, vile, Absolute worst person in the world because my dog feared me when All i wanted was to love him. Do you see another problem?

[Teegy]

Originally Posted by rubymoon2072

teacup is a marketing tactic. its a way to get more money. no such thing. from what i have learned here you breed to better the breed. so mixing say yorkie and maltese for instance for your designer morkie is not bettering the breed. also from what i have read here if you are doing things correctly you wont make a ton of money overnight. the health of the mom and dad and babies should come first. im sure others will give you much more insight.

good points

[Teegy]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

Not exactly true. Someone who advertises Teacup can be a Puppymill or a BackYardBreeder/Unethical Breeder/Greeder.

Yes A puppymill can be a puppymill without advertising teacups. Some puppymills don't even advertise they just sell to brokers only and auctions.

A legal puppymill is licensed by the USDA an illegal is just that illegal they often have a high volume/ some low volume business, they cage their animals, often several kennels high, and with no contact other than to feed or clean (when they bother). They live in deplorable conditions, often times.

There is nothing wrong with selling an incidental Tiny, its when they breed for tiny that makes it unethical...intentioanally breeding potentially unhealthy babies/tinies is wrong...that's like humans intentionally trying to produce blonds, males, etc...selective breeding, not standard breeding is wrong.

Does this help my dear Amy? I'm really glad to see you are educating yourself but keep going girlie...I know your getting there!

Knew you'd be here!!

[Teegy]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

Your breeder is playing Russian roulette with the dogs she is breeding. Many congenital diseases don't show up for years.

For instance, Chiuahah's are prone to open fontanel, Portosystemic liver shunts,luxating patellas, atlantoaxial subluxation and dental problems.

She then mixes them with:

Maltese- who are prone to Portosystemic liver shunts and MVD, Neurological problems such as Little White Shaker syndrome, PDA Shunts, luxating patellas, legs-calve perth disease, collapsed trachea, open fontanels and hydrocephalus..

Yorkies- luxating patellas, liver shunts, mvd, collapsed tracheas, legs-calve perth and so on...

And Lasha Apso's - ip dysplasia, patellar luxation, juvenile renal disease, intervertebral disc disease and eye problems such as progressive retinal atrophy, dry eye, and glaucoma.


See the over lap?

totally agree with you, generally someone who is mixing breeds are in it for the cash without a doubt and build fables on why their dogs are the best. I saw a dreadful show called "pick a puppy" some chicka was telling people that her cross bred maltese yorkie maltipoo something else dogs were the best of all breeds, yorkies have horrid tempers and breeding in a lovely mixed malteser and something else gives you a perfect dog.
I highly doubt she did any genetic testing and I don't recall mention of medical issues of any kind. The show made me ill and a friend had told me to watch it because they thought I'd love it. Ya I loved the old lady who had been breeding Scotties for decades and interviewed the heck out of the people who came to see her, she likely turned them down, because they didn't get a Scottie

[Teegy]

Originally Posted by Geoffreysmom

There are over 5 million healthy dogs Euthanized in the US every year. There are more than 600 million unwanted dogs on the planet. Yorkies are a favorite of Puppy Mills, Backyard Breeders....and any other kind of Breeder because they are small, inexpensive to feed....and people are willing to pay fortunes for them. Just look on YouTube some videos of Puppy Mills or Puppy Auctions and it will break your heart. If we all love our dogs....and our Yorkies...like we say we do...we can't ignore this. We should quit breeding dogs until we can take care of the ones we have. I rescued my little guy that was abandoned in the snow by a bunch of drug addicts. We love him to bits. Everyone has to wake up!

[Teegy]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

This is YORKIEtalk. Aren't we here because we have a yorkie, wanted a yorkie, or just love yorkies? There are lots of forums out there for most of the different breeds, and then there are general dog forums, like dogster.

So, if we're here cos of our love for yorkies...we want to protect the yorkie breed.

I grew up in Sheffield, Yorkshire, England. My Nan raised yorkies. Most of my own childhood photos, include a yorkie (or 2, or 3 ). I grew up, had kids and I bought a yorkie for my family, that looked just like the yorkies I grew up with. I'd like for my grandkids to be able to have a yorkie that looks like the one my kids grew up with. They only way that will happen is if the breed is preserved, to the standard that has been set. That way my grandchildren's yorkie will look like the yorkies my Nan raised.

To the OP...your breeder breeds mutts, so she obviously has no interest in preserving the Yorkshire Terrier for future generations to enjoy. And where is she getting these AKC registered dogs that she's mixing??? Obviously not from a reputable breeder, as no reputable breeder would sell a dog on full registration to just anyone to breed. A great breeder has a lot invested in his/her line, so they don't just hand it over to anyone to use. So your breeder must be getting her pups from other BYB and/or puppymills.

[Teegy]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I think maybe you need to go to your breeders home and take a look around before you start singing her praises. Can you tell me you have seen her dogs? Where he dogs are living? and how she is actually treating the dogs? If not then you can't really say she is a good breeder. Many many back yard breeders and puppy mills will make there websites look great and fill there pages with lies because they don't care about anything but the money. I wish we had some compassion of website vs what is really there. I have seen some really great websites but behind that website is a shed full of cages stacked on cages and just filth. A person will 100% lie just to sell a dog it has happened many times. Unless I talked to every one of her past purchasers then I would never believe all of her dogs have been healthy. Why would you want to breed a mix when there are millions being killed in shelters every day yes millions and why would a breeder want to contribute to that?

This is a point I strongly agree with. I befriended and visited my breeder for weekends long before deciding to get a dog from her, got to hear and see her deal with potential adoptive parents and discuss the proper care and quirks of the breed. I think many people on here would encourage anyone looking for a pup or retired dog to follow what Lovetodream is suggesting.