Dare I start a question about puppymills...here goes

[ChibiLuv]

if you are looking for a mix breed dog please look into rescue.
I got my dog from a breeder who bred mixes, I saw my pups mom and she had a great website and was a very nice lady. She was not mean to the dogs and they lived in good conditions but she is and was a backyard breeder. She was making 'designer dogs' for money and did not do health or genetic testing. As a result I have a yorkiepoo who has several health issues, a couple very severe. His medical care probably cost me over $5,000 since I have had him (6 years). I love him and would do it again but it is not something I would recommend. A good breeder does what they do in the best interest of the dogs and of the breed. In the end go with what you think is right but you have a wealth of knowledge and experience at your disposal here at YT, take your time and research.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by amyazer

the issue was discussed but it not dead because i still have questions as i long as im not fully convinced i will continue to ask questions

All questions were answered on that thread if you re-read it entirely. You have all of the answers but it seems like you just want to keep asking the same things over and over. If that thread didn't lay it all out for you over and over, then nothing anyone can ever say here will. This thread is just a re-do it seems to keep the issue going.

And really, it's not anyone's job here to convince you of anything - just post the info and let your and all readers make informed decisions. If you aren't convinced, okay. So be it. I hate to tell you but this thread isn't going to change your mind either.

[amyazer]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

All questions were answered on that thread if you re-read it entirely. You have all of the answers but it seems like you just want to keep asking the same things over and over. If that thread didn't lay it all out for you over and over, then nothing anyone can ever say here will. This thread is just a re-do it seems to keep the issue going.

And really, it's not anyone's job here to convince you of anything - just post the info and let your and all readers make informed decisions. If you aren't convinced, okay. So be it. I hate to tell you but this thread isn't going to change your mind either.

I read it but i never discussed in the other thread the questions i have about breeders that may breed for money but dont treat thier dogs badly...and there are some questions n answers here that arent on the other thread...if you have a issue with me asking questions even if they are similar to the other thread's questions then dont answer i made this thread for a discussion about things im curious about if it bothers you why are you answering?

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by amyazer

I read it but i never discussed in the other thread the questions i have about breeders that may breed for money but dont treat thier dogs badly...and there are some questions n answers here that arent on the other thread...if you have a issue with me asking questions even if they are similar to the other thread's questions then dont answer i made this thread for a discussion about things im curious about if it bothers you why are you answering?

In order to make a profit breeding you either have to seriously jack up the prices of the pups or cut corners. Most bybs and puppy mills choose to cut corners like no health testing, no genetic testing, no making sure the breeding dogs are the best example of the breed, not getting the xrays or health care both the mom and puppies need, also by getting rid of the pups before 12 weeks and by not knowing the lines of the dogs your breeding. Reputable breeders who breed to better the breed rarely make a profit and when they do its not much.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by amyazer

I read it but i never discussed in the other thread the questions i have about breeders that may breed for money but dont treat thier dogs badly...and there are some questions n answers here that arent on the other thread...if you have a issue with me asking questions even if they are similar to the other thread's questions then dont answer i made this thread for a discussion about things im curious about if it bothers you why are you answering?

It's all there on the other thread for you to read anytime - all about breeders and who felt what about the different types, their motives, their treatment of their dogs, why one shouldn't buy from certain ones, etc. All covered.

If you aren't convinced about what was detailed over and over on the other thread about breeders and what breeders' programs are wisest to support and why, that's up to you. I maintain nothing said on this thread is going to change your mind from that thread.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

She keeps saying this but my research has yet to find a reliable source that says that is true. I am pretty sure it was made up by people or the breeders of mixes.

There is a term called hybrid vigor which is an increased vigor or other superior qualities arising from the crossbreeding of genetically different plants or animals. It is used in the breeding of some animals to produce superior offspring. Offspring may to be larger and have other desirable traits, however, hybrid vigor refers to breeding a different species to each other, dogs are the same species just different breeds and too genetically similar to benefit from hybrid vigor. Also, many of the same ailments trouble most of the toy breeds, so breeding them together wouldn’t have any advantage. "So, the next time you hear about hybrid vigor and how mutts are healthier, remember this: hybrid vigor as related to dogs is a myth."


For more information see: Hybrid Vigor

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by Hrossen11

Also, remember you are on a purebred website, so you will have strong advocates for pups that should meet the standard set for this breed.

This is YORKIEtalk. Aren't we here because we have a yorkie, wanted a yorkie, or just love yorkies? There are lots of forums out there for most of the different breeds, and then there are general dog forums, like dogster.

So, if we're here cos of our love for yorkies...we want to protect the yorkie breed.

I grew up in Sheffield, Yorkshire, England. My Nan raised yorkies. Most of my own childhood photos, include a yorkie (or 2, or 3 ). I grew up, had kids and I bought a yorkie for my family, that looked just like the yorkies I grew up with. I'd like for my grandkids to be able to have a yorkie that looks like the one my kids grew up with. They only way that will happen is if the breed is preserved, to the standard that has been set. That way my grandchildren's yorkie will look like the yorkies my Nan raised.

To the OP...your breeder breeds mutts, so she obviously has no interest in preserving the Yorkshire Terrier for future generations to enjoy. And where is she getting these AKC registered dogs that she's mixing??? Obviously not from a reputable breeder, as no reputable breeder would sell a dog on full registration to just anyone to breed. A great breeder has a lot invested in his/her line, so they don't just hand it over to anyone to use. So your breeder must be getting her pups from other BYB and/or puppymills.

[ChibiLuv]

Ok let me try and answer one of your questions

Originally Posted by amyazer

Now i may get alot of angry comments for this next statement but is it possible for a breeder like my breeder to just want to make money from a puppy but not abuse or not ,not take care of her animals?
wouldn't that just be considered a plane breeder? What's so wrong with selling a puppy?.

Yes, many breeders get into breeding to make money or as a hobby. While many people don't have a problem with this I personally do and many people who work with rescue do because if they are making money then they are not doing the proper genetic and health testing and often they care less about who they give the dogs to, basically any one with a checkbook will do. This is why we get so many of these designer dogs in the shelter, people are not fully educated about them or they did not get what they were expecting or they had small children but the breeder sold them a toy breed anyways. Go to your city shelter and just see how many cute fluffy mixed breed dogs are there and you will see why so many of us are so passionate about this issue. I work at a no-kill shelter where we currently have 5adorable yorkie mix dogs. We get in Chihuahua and Lhasa apso mixes all the time.
I understand where you are coming from- I too loved my breeder for the longest time. Heck I wanted my next dog from her until I found this site and learned and my dog started having health issues (which didn't show up until he was 3 years old)
If less people sold puppies less puppies would be euthanized do to overcrowding- and yes sorry to ruin your guys day but they do euthanize puppies, even cute fluffy adorable and adoptable ones. This is why we only advocate the breeding of akc registered purebreds by reputable breeders who will not make any money off these dogs or use flashy marketing terms like 'teacup' or 'micro- mini' . If you want a mutt or do not care about purebred status please support a local shelter or a breed rescue.

[Teresiana]

Originally Posted by amyazer

I read it but i never discussed in the other thread the questions i have about breeders that may breed for money but dont treat thier dogs badly...and there are some questions n answers here that arent on the other thread...if you have a issue with me asking questions even if they are similar to the other thread's questions then dont answer i made this thread for a discussion about things im curious about if it bothers you why are you answering?

If I'm understanding correctly, your original questions as to the difference between a puppymill & a BYB have been answered. So has the reason why "teacup" is associated with puppymills and BYB's. So now you're interested in understanding why breeders who mix breeds for profit are not respected as much as strictly purebred breeders. I think that's what your getting at.

The reason is, a reputable breeder's goal is to "better the breed", to create the perfect example of their breed. That's why they study their lines & do so much health/genetic testing. If a breeder has a litter of puppies, she may feel as those one or two of those puppies will live up that perfect potential...if she's lucky. She will keep these dogs & continue to use them in her breeding program to continue her goal of "bettering the breed". Nothing is wrong with the other puppies from the litter. They may just not be "perfect" & fit exactly into the standard the breeder is striving to achieve. Maybe they're too small or too big, or a bit of their hair is the wrong color. These are the puppies that the breeder offers to her clients.

When a breeder mixes 2 breeds for profit, their goal is to make money - not to better the breed. She may treat her dogs well & pamper them kings and queens. But by simply mixing two (or more) breeds, purebred advocates may feel she is showing disrespect to many many years of blood, sweat & tears. Down the line, the breed they struggle so hard to perfect, ends up getting distorted & the majority of the breed seen in public is no longer "standard". Also, since this breeder's goal is to make money, she may cut corners in her breeding program. She may not do adequate health testing...and that will eventually surface in one of her puppies. If this puppy grows up to have a major health problem, or doesn't stay as small as the buyer had hoped, it may end up in a rescue or shelter. There are so many dogs in shelters that come from situations like this. A puppy from a reputable breeder does not end up in a shelter. Reputable breeders keep in touch with their clients & if for some reason their client has to give up the dog, the breeder will either take the dog herself - or find the perfect home.

I think that these are just some of the reasons why some people on this forum have an issue with breeders who breed mixes & soley for profit.

[amyazer]

THanks all for answering most of my questions i have some answers now...When i buy a puppy next time i will either get a pure bred or go and adopt a mixed breed...for healths sake...sill may have some disagreement about other things

[lisaly]

I have had Yorkies in my life for over thirty years, and even before that, my mom had a Yorkie. Yet I continue to learn each day, and I have learned so much from this wonderful YT community. Keep asking questions and be open to new ideas. That's what's important. From asking questions, listening, and hearing the input of others, we continually grow ourselves.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by amyazer

THanks all for answering most of my questions i have some answers now...When i buy a puppy next time i will either get a pure bred or go and adopt a mixed breed...for healths sake...sill may have some disagreement about other things

Even those of us who are friends outside of the board don't always agree on everything

[theporkieyorkie]

Originally Posted by amyazer

I read it but i never discussed in the other thread the questions i have about breeders that may breed for money but dont treat thier dogs badly...and there are some questions n answers here that arent on the other thread...if you have a issue with me asking questions even if they are similar to the other thread's questions then dont answer i made this thread for a discussion about things im curious about if it bothers you why are you answering?

Most of the reputable breeders I've known have barely broke even...if that. I worked for a Newfoundland Breeder(she co-owned/bred the dog that was the last Newfoundland to win the Westminster) and there is NO WAY she even came close to breaking even. I am guessing it was a tax write off for her and her husband. She did it as what I would consider more of a "hobby"...even though it was more than a full time job, and she did it for the love of the breed.

Even if people were selling puppies at top dollar, unless you are producing them all of the time, with several dogs, I just don't see how much profit can be made. The vet bills on all of the dogs in the kennel, health checks and certifications, food and grooming...and the cost of showing,handling and championing dogs is not cheap. In fact, showing dogs can get very expensive

Even with a BY/Home breeder... they are still vetting their dog while it's pregnant...it could end up having a c-section....it could end up loosing a litter or having a small litter, but the pregnancy vet bills are still the same...the puppies may need to get their tails and dewclaws done plus their first health check up...and if they breed to someone else's male, they are looking at a stud fee or pick of the litter! Plus, it's A LOT of work to have puppies. Unless they are constantly breeding dog and/or not giving them proper vet care, I have difficulty believing that anyone makes a ton of money breeding.

There are so many people in the Detroit area who think they are going to make money off from breeding their pit bulls...and all that happens is the pit bulls end up running the streets or they end up getting put to sleep at the pound.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by amyazer

I see all of everyone's point. Some said backyard breeders are not trying to better the breed only breeding for money fine I can agree with you on that...now what about the betterment of a the breed ,lets use my breeder for the sake of conversation, she never had an unhealthy pup before...she claims she used good lines n all akc...so if there not show dogs n she breeds healthy dogs what more can a regular pet owner ask for?

If your prime motive is to make money or a profit; then it is highly likely the health of the dog(s) will suffer over time How much will you really dish out for emergency care of your dogs .. after all that affects your bottom line! Will you give the injections/shots yourself to save money; and not bother to educate yourself how to keep vaccines?
How much time and training and activity will you do with your dog(s), after all this costs money too, less for your bottom line.

ANd you go down the line, oh I don't actually health test my dogs, never had a problem with any pup before. Health testing is another cost that affects your bottom line.

Also many of these types offer minimal or no actual health guarantee.

Many of these types do NOT follow up with their puppys health over their lifetime; so quite frankly they really don't know what is the long term health of their puppies.

I do not agree with breeding companion animals as your sole source of income.

[MauiGirl]

Originally Posted by amyazer

yes but open frontanels are not a bad thing dogs can live there whole life with them and be healthy... everything else well yes thats why alot of vets here say mixing a two breeds together is healthier

Really? If you really believe this, then you must believe that Zoey is going to be just fine. And... I certainly hope she is. She is such a darling little girl.