Parti Yorkie vs Biewer

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Sami_girl

Thank you for this. My "breeder" called my dog a Biewer and docked her tail...too short at that. They were basically step up from back yard breeders and I do not believe would know the difference between Biewer and Parti. I did see the parents though and there were traditional Yorkies. So she must be a Parti??

Is your dog registered with the AKC as a Yorkshire Terrier? If so, it's safe to call her a Parti Colored Yorkshire Terrier, or Parti for short.

[Sami_girl]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Is your dog registered with the AKC as a Yorkshire Terrier? If so, it's safe to call her a Parti Colored Yorkshire Terrier, or Parti for short.

No, there were no papers.

[Rochester]

Wasn't the BTCA once the BYTCA? Didn't they have the largest membership with members owning dogs from just about every breeder in Germany? Each breeder went to their Vet and the Vet sent in the blood samples. Are you saying that the Vets lied when they sent in the blood samples? Didn't they do the Mars test to actually prove Mr. Biewer's story to be true? Why then would the study be flawed? I believe that quite a few members that were included in that study have quit the BTCA and joined the bbca so ask them if they lied when THEY submitted samples. The BTCA dropped the Yorkshire because the Mars test proved the dog was mixed. How was this test suppose to be tainted?
Mr. Biewer never owned Streamglen Richard. He sold his RARE, BLACK AND WHITE YORKIES for today's price of $10,000 to $15,000. If he would have told people that he was developing a new breed he couldn't sell them for $10.00, so of course he would say the were purebred.

[bchgirl]

In 1975 Mr. Biewer purchased a pair of adult dogs from Streamglen. Streamglen Richard (M) and Streamglen Flora (F). Richard was shown and championed in Germany.

The vast majority of btca members owned Kobolden lines from Manuela Glasser.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Sami_girl

No, there were no papers.

In that case, you may never know whether your dog descended from Biewer or Parti lineage, or how purebred it is, but it is definitely safe to say that your dog carries the piebald coat color allele introgressed into the Yorkshire Terrier breed. That covers all bases. But I would be willing to grant you honorary Parti Colored Yorkshire Terrier status for sticking with this thread this far. Anyway the most important thing is that your dog is loved .

[NGessner]

Originally Posted by Rochester

Wasn't the BTCA once the BYTCA? Didn't they have the largest membership with members owning dogs from just about every breeder in Germany? Each breeder went to their Vet and the Vet sent in the blood samples. Are you saying that the Vets lied when they sent in the blood samples? Didn't they do the Mars test to actually prove Mr. Biewer's story to be true? Why then would the study be flawed? I believe that quite a few members that were included in that study have quit the BTCA and joined the bbca so ask them if they lied when THEY submitted samples. The BTCA dropped the Yorkshire because the Mars test proved the dog was mixed. How was this test suppose to be tainted?
Mr. Biewer never owned Streamglen Richard. He sold his RARE, BLACK AND WHITE YORKIES for today's price of $10,000 to $15,000. If he would have told people that he was developing a new breed he couldn't sell them for $10.00, so of course he would say the were purebred.

GOSH IRIS!!! I am a little confused-- The blood samples collected by our vets were sent to Dr. Ellison, Gayle Pruetts vet not direct to MARS. The results of the initial tests were returned to Gayle Pruett. Gayle Pruett in turn interpreted the results of the tests. Flaws--- ask Mrs. Pruett!!!

As far as Streamglen Richard, please refer to INGRUS for list of some of the puppies sired by the Friedheck kennel(Mr. Biewer) STREAMGLEN RICHARD - World Pedigree DataBase Biewer Yorkshire Terrier, Biewer Yorkshire Terrier Pedigree DataBase.

If everyone would stick to the facts instead of heresay and gossip, then the Biewer Breed might stand of chance of true recognition. Lets stop throwing innuendos and slurs on the people not here to defend what their intentions and goals were.

[BWRTerrierFan]

The information on Ingrus is flawed and NOT reliable. Some of the entries are not correct as I have seen this for my own eyes. I have compared actual pedigrees to information posted on this site and it does not always match. Again, before DNA pedigrees were an honor system and the pedigrees from Germany cannot be held as fact.

[BWRTerrierFan]

Also, majority of the dogs in the study were not only Kobolden, many were Art of High Class among others. Please stick to the facts.

[NGessner]

Originally Posted by BWRTerrierFan

The information on Ingrus is flawed and NOT reliable. Some of the entries are not correct as I have seen this for my own eyes. I have compared actual pedigrees to information posted on this site and it does not always match. Again, before DNA pedigrees were an honor system and the pedigrees from Germany cannot be held as fact.

GOSH GAYLE!!!! No one stated that the INGRUS information is cerified. It is simply a souce of information and collection of data. For the time being it is a wonderful collection of information from all over the world. There are bound to be errors and misinformation. At least it is a starting point to gather information on the breed. Now is we only had people that are really interested in gathering facts to improve the data base information instead of attacking the credibility of the collection of data. " Since we are all working for the betterment of the breed"

[BWRTerrierFan]

Originally Posted by NGessner

GOSH GAYLE!!!! No one stated that the INGRUS information is cerified. It is simply a souce of information and collection of data. For the time being it is a wonderful collection of information from all over the world. There are bound to be errors and misinformation. At least it is a starting point to gather information on the breed. Now is we only had people that are really interested in gathering facts to improve the data base information instead of attacking the credibility of the collection of data. " Since we are all working for the betterment of the breed"

I'm sorry but you are incorrect, I am not Gayle although contrary to what the Parti people and "Biewer Breed" people think, based on the MARS information and advances of the BIEWER TERRIER I feel she has done more important things for the breed than anyone else...my opionion and I don't care what nasty rebuttals anyone has. And I am as interested in gathering FACTS about this breed as anyone else so why would I use a "starting point" that you yourself admits has errors and misinformation? As far as i'm concerned the ancestry and information about the beginnings of the breed are faulty and full of question marks and hearsay and I don't put much emphasis on it, instead I choose to seek information that can be verified, information that is current and FACT based.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

What they are or how they got to this point really is a moot point now almost.. what SHOULD matter is What is being produced and the health of these dogs!!

We have a silent problem out there.. silent because people have been told to "keep quiet".. "stay still".. or "look the other way".. We have over 40 (I believe) cases where people have been brave enough not to stay quiet.. they have shared their information and we have followed their pedigrees. There are common names, common links. There are lines out there with this issue, this issue of seizures. There are definite lines to worry about, and lines not to mix together. There is information available but no one will talk about it.. no one is willing to share information, they would rather say "All is well" and ignore the problem. I have been told there are a few "clean" lines out there.. I don't know I haven't had the good fortune to have found any of them in any of my dogs... they maybe out there but these dogs are so tightly bred it would be difficult at best to find them. IMO

So, let's just keep breeding Biewer to Biewer and keep producing these cute little bundles of fluff without a care in the world, and then if/when there is a problem.. just everyone SHHHHHH!

In the end, who is hurt? ask Cleo, Mercedes, Lady, Fancy, Briella, Nobel, Fairy, Fellio, ... and the list goes on.

Diana

[BWRTerrierFan]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

What they are or how they got to this point really is a moot point now almost.. what SHOULD matter is What is being produced and the health of these dogs!!

We have a silent problem out there.. silent because people have been told to "keep quiet".. "stay still".. or "look the other way".. We have over 40 (I believe) cases where people have been brave enough not to stay quiet.. they have shared their information and we have followed their pedigrees. There are common names, common links. There are lines out there with this issue, this issue of seizures. There are definite lines to worry about, and lines not to mix together. There is information available but no one will talk about it.. no one is willing to share information, they would rather say "All is well" and ignore the problem. I have been told there are a few "clean" lines out there.. I don't know I haven't had the good fortune to have found any of them in any of my dogs... they maybe out there but these dogs are so tightly bred it would be difficult at best to find them. IMO

So, let's just keep breeding Biewer to Biewer and keep producing these cute little bundles of fluff without a care in the world, and then if/when there is a problem.. just everyone SHHHHHH!

In the end, who is hurt? ask Cleo, Mercedes, Lady, Fancy, Briella, Nobel, Fairy, Fellio, ... and the list goes on.

Diana

I will agree with you on the fact that health is paramount and seizures are an issue to focus on however, Yorkies are plagued with the same issue as well as Maltese and breeding Biewers to Yorkies is no "safer" then Biewer to Biewer especially if you feel these dogs are Yorkies. Seizures are an issue in toy breeds period and not isolated to Biewers. Breeding Biewers to Yorkies just creates diluted Biewer genes and diluted Yorkie genes both carrying seizure genetics. Every breed known today has its issues and these very breeds can be traced back to a small group of individual dogs. In Germany the biewers were intermingled with Yorkies and god knows what else so the gene pool is diverse contrary to what some will dispute. More diverse than the foundations of most established breeds we know today. IMO the bigger problem is the constant he said she said, fighting and smearing that goes on in this breed that has cut off the possibility of breeders from both sides of the fence coming together to expand and improve the breeding pool but it is very clear to me that that isn't happening anytime soon. Too many of the people breeding these dogs are more interested in cashing in on a trend or smacking down a fellow breeder so they can sell more of their own dogs. I have been in dogs, multiple breeds, for more than 25 years and I have never seen such disgraceful behavior among breeders than I have within this breed. Everyone is in a race to nowhere! No one is exempt either. I have done my research and I feel from what information is out there and from the dogs I own that this is a breed outside the yorkie and it will eventually be seen that way. Hopefully the people will then finally come together for the breed and not themselves. I have avoided this forum because of the fighting I have heard about and and now I see why. ridiculous people!

[Rochester]

Originally Posted by NGessner

GOSH IRIS!!! I am a little confused-- The blood samples collected by our vets were sent to Dr. Ellison, Gayle Pruetts vet not direct to MARS. The results of the initial tests were returned to Gayle Pruett. Gayle Pruett in turn interpreted the results of the tests. Flaws--- ask Mrs. Pruett!!!

As far as Streamglen Richard, please refer to INGRUS for list of some of the puppies sired by the Friedheck kennel(Mr. Biewer) STREAMGLEN RICHARD - World Pedigree DataBase Biewer Yorkshire Terrier, Biewer Yorkshire Terrier Pedigree DataBase.

If everyone would stick to the facts instead of heresay and gossip, then the Biewer Breed might stand of chance of true recognition. Lets stop throwing innuendos and slurs on the people not here to defend what their intentions and goals were.

I am not Iris, but I agree with BWRterrierfan about Gayle. The samples went to Mars and the results went to Dr. Ellison. Dr. Ellison them gave them to Gayle Pruett as she was the president of the BTCA. There was no need to interpret anything as the results were written just as the results are when you get them back directly from Mars. How can that be flawed. Did you yourself take in something other than a Biewer? That is the only way the results can be flawed. Are you saying that the Vets are dishonest? I know that Mrs. Pruett's Vet invested a lot of time and energy to help the BTCA and I don't think she would appreciate being called a criminal.

[chachi]

So seizures are showing up in the lines of biewers? Is that in biewer to biewer breedings or is that showing up in all the lines

[GreenwoodBiewer]

All documented cases have been from Biewer to Biewer breedings but One. Some were from dogs brought straight from Germany. The one that was not a full Biewer to Biewer breeding was a "carrier" female (Biewer mother/yorkie father) bred BACK to a Biewer father (not one of mine and I thought a different enough line.. ha!).. I thought those pups would be safe, but I was wrong.. I have learned that I can NEVER go back to a Biewer with any of my dogs that have ANY Biewer in them.. or I just wait for the shoe to drop and another poor dog to suffer.

Yes.. the Yorkies have seizures too.. but in no where NEAR the numbers we are seeing in the Biewers. My friend has been breeding yorkies for 30 years and could count on one hand the number of yorkies she's HEARD of with seizures.. not the case with the Biewer population that's for sure!



Diana