Parti Yorkie vs Biewer

[NGessner]

" I know that Mrs. Pruett's Vet invested a lot of time and energy to help the BTCA and I don't think she would appreciate being called a criminal."


GOSH ROCHCHESTER!!! Please explain where, when, how anyone has called anyone a criminal????? That is your word!! This is a very good demonstration of how misinformation has gotten spread around about the Biewer.

And yes Chachi some Biewers have had seizures. But the seizures are not isolated to the Biewers as some would have you believe. Plus not all seizures are genetic as they are now realizing.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

All documented cases have been from Biewer to Biewer breedings but One. Some were from dogs brought straight from Germany. The one that was not a full Biewer to Biewer breeding was a "carrier" female (Biewer mother/yorkie father) bred BACK to a Biewer father (not one of mine and I thought a different enough line.. ha!).. I thought those pups would be safe, but I was wrong.. I have learned that I can NEVER go back to a Biewer with any of my dogs that have ANY Biewer in them.. or I just wait for the shoe to drop and another poor dog to suffer.

Yes.. the Yorkies have seizures too.. but in no where NEAR the numbers we are seeing in the Biewers. My friend has been breeding yorkies for 30 years and could count on one hand the number of yorkies she's HEARD of with seizures.. not the case with the Biewer population that's for sure!



Diana

Thatts why I wondered too because you dont really hear of seizures with the yorkies. With the yorkies it is liver shunt

[silverjoy]

Originally Posted by NGessner

" I know that Mrs. Pruett's Vet invested a lot of time and energy to help the BTCA and I don't think she would appreciate being called a criminal."


GOSH ROCHCHESTER!!! Please explain where, when, how anyone has called anyone a criminal????? That is your word!! This is a very good demonstration of how misinformation has gotten spread around about the Biewer.

And yes Chachi some Biewers have had seizures. But the seizures are not isolated to the Biewers as some would have you believe. Plus not all seizures are genetic as they are now realizing.

Speaking of seizures....My 4 year old male Biewer,Brinkley,(biewer to biewer breeding) had his first seizure last night. Scared the he!! out me. It lasted about 90 seconds from start to finish.
His sister(I do not own) started down this road last year. Heartbreaking

[GreenwoodBiewer]

The Biewers did have a few cases of LS also, to their credit, the Biewer clubs jumped right on that problem and do a very good job on testing for it. Most clubs require testing of all their dogs prior to breeding and many test the pups before placement (although I believe the Bile acid tests aren't really valid until at least 16 weeks?)

The incidence of LS was showing up in a particular line of Biewers for the most part, although of course it can crop up any where, any time.

My only thought is that the LS issue was easier to control, because it was in fewer lines. The seizure issue is in the MAJOR lines.. the ones so many of the big breeders have. To admit it would be disaster for them and for their clubs and for their future. It would.. SHOULD put and end to Biewer to Biewer .. in the HOPE of saving these dogs they all say they love so dearly. JMO of course.. but instead of talking about it.. they shut the door, ignore it, say we are lying or making things up and remove all traces of us trying to bring the information out.. too bad. But of course, no one else has any problems.. all of their dogs are perfectly healthy!!!

Diana

[BWRTerrierFan]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

All documented cases have been from Biewer to Biewer breedings but One. Some were from dogs brought straight from Germany. The one that was not a full Biewer to Biewer breeding was a "carrier" female (Biewer mother/yorkie father) bred BACK to a Biewer father (not one of mine and I thought a different enough line.. ha!).. I thought those pups would be safe, but I was wrong.. I have learned that I can NEVER go back to a Biewer with any of my dogs that have ANY Biewer in them.. or I just wait for the shoe to drop and another poor dog to suffer.

Yes.. the Yorkies have seizures too.. but in no where NEAR the numbers we are seeing in the Biewers. My friend has been breeding yorkies for 30 years and could count on one hand the number of yorkies she's HEARD of with seizures.. not the case with the Biewer population that's for sure!



Diana

Documentation rather than hearsay. There are far more Yorkies in existence than Biewers and NLE and GME are rather common in Yorkies and other toy breeds, especially females. There is plenty of data to confirm this. Yorkies are afflicted with seizures quite often. Claiming that only Biewer to Biewer breeding holds seizures is just nonsense. There are good Biewer breeders that have not produced seizures, just because you have don't make a blanket statement like that. Thats EXACTLY the problem with misinformation out there, its not backed up by factual documentation, its opinion and foolish people see it and assume its fact because they read it on a forum, ridiculous. Cavalier King Charles have Syringo running through the lines, Dalmations deafness, Westies have cushings, should they also be bred with other breeds in their foundation to help the breed?? Obsurd.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by silverjoy

Speaking of seizures....My 4 year old male Biewer,Brinkley, had his first seizure last night. Scared the he!! out me. It lasted about 90 seconds from start to finish.
His sister(I do not own) started down this road last year. Heartbreaking

I'm so sorry Lisa!!

Thank you for coming forward. It is not easy I know, but it is appreciated. I'm sorry you and your little Brinkley had to go through this.. I hope he doesn't have too many more of them. My guess is he'll not have another for about 6 months. Most of the time, they don't get a lot worse but stay at about this same intensity and he may never need medication. I know of only a few that get to the point of needing meds. Most just get through them and act like nothing is wrong after a few minutes.. I pray that is what happens for Brinkley.

Call if you ever need too

Diana

[silverjoy]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

I'm so sorry Lisa!!

Thank you for coming forward. It is not easy I know, but it is appreciated. I'm sorry you and your little Brinkley had to go through this.. I hope he doesn't have too many more of them. My guess is he'll not have another for about 6 months. Most of the time, they don't get a lot worse but stay at about this same intensity and he may never need medication. I know of only a few that get to the point of needing meds. Most just get through them and act like nothing is wrong after a few minutes.. I pray that is what happens for Brinkley.

Call if you ever need too

Diana

Thank you Diana.

Mariah sends

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by BWRTerrierFan

Documentation rather than hearsay. There are far more Yorkies in existence than Biewers and NLE and GME are rather common in Yorkies and other toy breeds, especially females. There is plenty of data to confirm this. Yorkies are afflicted with seizures quite often. Claiming that only Biewer to Biewer breeding holds seizures is just nonsense. There are good Biewer breeders that have not produced seizures, just because you have don't make a blanket statement like that. Thats EXACTLY the problem with misinformation out there, its not backed up by factual documentation, its opinion and foolish people see it and assume its fact because they read it on a forum, ridiculous. Cavalier King Charles have Syringo running through the lines, Dalmations deafness, Westies have cushings, should they also be bred with other breeds in their foundation to help the breed?? Obsurd.

By documented, I mean someone specifically called us, or told us that their dog had a seizure and we traced the pedigrees and found specific links to specific dogs. I would not call that hearsay.


Diana

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by silverjoy

Thank you Diana.

Mariah sends

Thanks Lisa.. I bet Mariah is a doll! Is she still a lover..

[silverjoy]

Yes. She is lover and a PISTOL!

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by silverjoy

Yes. She is lover and a PISTOL!

PERFECT!!!!

Diana

[Rochester]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

Now, back to the MARS test.. IF the test had used a cross section of Biewers to get the markers against which all of the dogs were to be measured maybe the testing would have some validity.. However,. this was not the case. The dogs used to create the marker were from one group of people, one specific group of dogs. The samples were "submitted" by someone claiming to be a vet (who was not). Tainted test, tainted results FOREVER! Unless and until they totally start over collecting the information to get a good base.. that test is meaningless. MARS themselves have stated over and over again that this test, if taken for dogs from small populations and animals or dogs not bred in the US is note accurate.. if you look in the YT archives , I'm sure you'll find the letter from the MARS people stating such.

OK.. there, My opinion and a few questions too I guess .. always more questions than answers!

Diana

How are the test tainted and how are the results tainted?

[pstinard]

Jumping back in to the conversation, I wasn't able to get a direct reply from HealthGene on how they test for the presence of the piebald gene in Biewers and Parti Yorkshire Terriers, but HealthGene did refer me to Dr. Schmutz's 2009 paper on MITF and white spotting in dogs, and I found the answer buried in Table 2 of that paper. Here is the link to the paper:

MITF and White Spotting in Dogs: A Population Study

Table 2 lists the genotypes of 151 dogs from breeds in which individuals with random spotting were homozygous for the SINE insertion in the MITF gene. Two Biewers tested homozygous for the SINE insertion.

According to Dr. Schmutz's paper:

The SINE insertion 5′ of MITF-M first described by Karlsson et al. (2007) was associated with white markings in many and diverse breeds in this study, suggesting that it is an “old” mutation. There is considerable debate about the age of particular breeds. However, the Chinese Shar-Pei, Akita, and other Asian dogs are typically considered to be among the oldest breeds (Parker et al. 2004). The SINE insertion has been found in individuals with white markings in these breeds.

Since breed standard Yorkshire Terriers are solid colored and do not carry the piebald allele (the MITF gene with the SINE insertion), it had to have been bred in from some other dog breed to create the Biewer. Case closed.

[SnowBlueYorkies]

In December of 1976 Wildweir Kennels( Joan Gordon and Janet Bennett) had a tri-color puppy born from two traditional color yorkies. She said her sister and her had heard of it in England but it was the first one they had gotten in a litter They registered him with AKC as Wildweirs Triplicate "Trippy" because of his tri-colors. Their was no Streamglen in his pedigree.
This was 8 years before Mr. Biewers Tri- colors were born and Mrs Gordon said that the tricolor was imported into Germany from England.

Joan Gordon of Wildweir Kennels wrote that yorkies can be born tri-colored in her book in 1976 (The Complete Yorkshire Terrier) Page 205. This was written years before anyone ever heard of what is now called a Biewer.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Welcome Deb...

Diana