Parti Yorkie vs Biewer

[seastheday]

WOW is all I can say. After reading these posts as they come up I am appalled at how nasty and hostile it has gotten. It started with a simple "biewer v parti" inquiry from someone who was considering getting one or the other. How it became a war between the states is beyond me. We adopted our Yorkie and our Biewer during the winter. They are three months apart. Biewer to Biewer breeding - Yorkie to Yorkie breeding. We have owned dogs for 42 years, both rescues and purebreds (if there is such a thing) including a Yorkie. All I can say is these posts have taken all the fun out of raising and training our new puppies. Now I am going to sit here and wait for my Biewer to have a seizure and my Yorkie to need a liver shunt - WOW is all I can say. Think I will delete any more emails that come up regarding this post....and no, I am not putting my head in the sand - just disappointed that what should have been an informative thread has turned into a fiasco.

[chachi]

Do we have to make this thread ugly. I am really enjoying learning on this thread. I never fully understood why one group breeds only biewer to biewer and one group breeds biewer to yorkie and parti, Now I understand exactly why also alot about the genetics of the biewer. Pretty good for a yorkie owner

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by chachi

Do we have to make this thread ugly. I am really enjoying learning on this thread. I never fully understood why one group breeds only biewer to biewer and one group breeds biewer to yorkie and parti, Now I understand exactly why also alot about the genetics of the biewer. Pretty good for a yorkie owner

[jeane]

I agree/ I have learned the difference between the 2 but I do have one question? are biewers as healthy as a regular yorkie ?

[luvlee]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

By documented, I mean someone specifically called us, or told us that their dog had a seizure and we traced the pedigrees and found specific links to specific dogs. I would not call that hearsay.


Diana

Yeah, but that's just an anecdotal comparison. It's not a statistic that can be used to to compare the number of biewers with seizures to the number of yorkies with seizures.

It's SOME information but not statistically relevant. Sorry.

[luvlee]

I don't know how this thread turned into a heated battle.

The thread was really interesting when it discussed Biewer genetics. This discussion could not be had a few years ago. And we're so fortunate to have some people posting with a genetics background to explain it.

Now, for Biewer breeders, the science behind how the Biewer originated may be irrelevant at this point.

But for me, the average person who's about to adopt a Biewer, I find the information fascinating.

I'd like to know more - but I think WE ALL can be nicer to one another and just agree to disagree....

Tracey

[jeane]

I do find all the information very educational and I appreciate it

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by chachi

Do we have to make this thread ugly. I am really enjoying learning on this thread. I never fully understood why one group breeds only biewer to biewer and one group breeds biewer to yorkie and parti, Now I understand exactly why also alot about the genetics of the biewer. Pretty good for a yorkie owner

I agree. I try to keep out of the arguments (unless it's something I think can be resolved by rational, scientific thought) and try to learn as much as possible from all camps. For me, this thread has been extremely informative--I've learned something new every day just by researching this topic.

[pstinard]

Here is another fascinating research paper on DNA coat color testing in dogs that specifically references the Yorkshire Terrier:

Coat color DNA testing in dogs: Theory meets practice

It is behind a pay firewall, so I will quote the relevant parts:

These data illustrate that owners may be using coat color testing to help them understand the appearance of pups of unexpected coat colors in their litters. Using DNA testing will therefore help them to eliminate carriers of undesired alleles from future breeding. However, in some cases, dog breeders are actually trying to create a line of dogs with a new coat color. An example of this is the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier, where random white spotting caused by a SINE insertion in MITF [11], is now selected for. The presence of the e allele in 9 of the commercially tested Yorkshire Terriers (Table 1), suggests that the random white spotting, called particolor in this breed, has likely been introduced from a breed where the e allele occurs commonly.

So according to this study, Biewers carry the piebald allele at the MITF gene, and Parti Yorkshire Terriers carry the "e" allele at the E (technically called the MC1R) gene. And BOTH were introduced from other breeds, because the likelihood of the exact same mutation arising independently in the Yorkshire Terrier is astronomically small. That article is a GOLDMINE of information, and I am going to curl up and read through it more carefully tonight. It also references people testing their Yorkies for the presence of the "b" (brown, or chocolate) allele at the B (technically called TYRP1) gene, and I need to see if this was introduced from other breeds as well--since they were testing for specific variations of the "b" allele found in naturally brown breeds, it's very likely that chocolate color in Yorkies came from some other breed. What a mess! DNA doesn't lie, folks!

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by luvlee

Yeah, but that's just an anecdotal comparison. It's not a statistic that can be used to to compare the number of biewers with seizures to the number of yorkies with seizures.

It's SOME information but not statistically relevant. Sorry.

I was asked what documented was.. that is what I explained. nothing more, nothing less. I didn't give out any statistical information

Diana.

[Sami_girl]

Originally Posted by pstinard

In that case, you may never know whether your dog descended from Biewer or Parti lineage, or how purebred it is, but it is definitely safe to say that your dog carries the piebald coat color allele introgressed into the Yorkshire Terrier breed. That covers all bases. But I would be willing to grant you honorary Parti Colored Yorkshire Terrier status for sticking with this thread this far. Anyway the most important thing is that your dog is loved .

Thank you for your kind words!

[NGessner]

Originally Posted by DBlain

Wow

from what I have seen and read the Biewers are fun loving happy balls of fluff and energy, to me that's a good thing since I would not want a stuffed animal that pees and poop. I also get the sense that the posters/owners of them feel lovingly the same way. I am assuming some on this thread of breeders of Biewers, which is so cool, I love that breed, but geeeeeze hopefully I am wrong, but it almost sounds like some posts are condescending towards new owners of that breed. Biewers are expensive pups, $1,500 to $2,000.00 for a pet quality, so I would think anyone spending that kind of money on a dog would learn everything they could about the breed. While I am sure they would not know near what a breeder would I would think they would have been educated enough by their breeder to answer a few basic questions. It would be nice of those that felt they are in the know to tell us what they know instead of pointing out how little others might know.

Also for those that feel intimidated buying from show breeders I understand why you might feel like that

Not all breeders charge $1,500.0 - $2,000.00 for pet puppies. The higher the price for a pet does not measure quality. It is smart to learn as much as possible about a breed and are they compatible with your expectations. Do they fit in with your life style.

[Wylie's Mom]

Regarding the nastiness on this thread - it needs to stop immediately.

We basically have 3 choices - we can close this thread thereby ending what started as a good discussion, we can ban and suspend some people, or we can behave in such a way that makes the previous 2 options moot. It's that simple; your choice.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Regarding the nastiness on this thread - it needs to stop immediately.

We basically have 3 choices - we can close this thread thereby ending what started as a good discussion, we can ban and suspend some people, or we can behave in such a way that makes the previous 2 options moot. It's that simple; your choice.

I can learn something from EVERYONE, so please, let's choose option 3!!!

[NGessner]

Originally Posted by pstinard

I can learn something from EVERYONE, so please, let's choose option 3!!!

I agree!! This is a learning experience. Hope we can all benefit from this.

So Pstindard , since you have now had time to curl up read and sleep on it are your final conclusions that the Biewer is ID'd by the piebald allele at the MITF gene and the Parti has the "e" allele at the E gene??

Does this then make them separate breeds from each other and separate from the Yorkie???
Are they each a separate breed???
Does the "e"allele separate the Parti from the Yorkie breed or just designate them as Yorkies of a different color???

I think I have many more questions, but just a few at a time...