Parti Yorkie vs Biewer - Page 4 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

chachi · 06-19-2013, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstinard

And I was writing a reply when you wrote this

. I agree, if you're going to develop a breed-specific test, you need to test a wide variety of dogs. But at the same time, they need to conform to some kind of standard. I would love to see the test results for Biewers that come from other groups and from other parts of the US. I'll leave it at that. Please post information about that law suit you mentioned if you have it. Thanks!

It is the BTCA Who believe the biewers are a separate breed and had them Mars tested. Greenwoodbiewer is giving an opinion from one club only and they havent did any genetic testing to prove their theory. We used to have BTCA members on here in the past and if you want to read some posts from them put biewers in the search bar and search old threads. There is alot of controversy surrounding the biewers as you can see

GreenwoodBiewer · 06-19-2013, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstinard

And I was writing a reply when you wrote this

. I agree, if you're going to develop a breed-specific test, you need to test a wide variety of dogs. But at the same time, they need to conform to some kind of standard. I would love to see the test results for Biewers that come from other groups and from other parts of the US. I'll leave it at that. Please post information aboulaw suit you mentioned if you have it. Thanks!

I really don't know anyone personally that has tested their Biewers.. I have heard of Parti people who have used the test to see if their Parti was a Yorkshire. As of right now the results are not admissible in court.

As far as the mentioned lawsuit, it was not specifically about the MARS test, I only know that for awhile, the Biewer Terrier was removed from the list and was unaware that they put it back up.

Diana

bchgirl · 06-19-2013, 12:47 PM

MARS never removed biewer terrier from their website. It had been listed under the test for mixed breeds but seems now their products have all changed into a singular one.

GreenwoodBiewer · 06-19-2013, 01:10 PM

actually, I believe it was gone for awhile.. people said they couldn't find it.. I went and looked for it when they asked me too.. and I couldn't find it either. I really don't know why it wasn't listed but it wasn't anywhere on the site.. I don't know for how long or the reasoning behind it.. just know it was not there when I looked.

I was secretly hoping they had a "Eureka' moment.. but I guess that's not the case since it's back again ha.. such a pity

Diana

BWRTerrierFan · 06-19-2013, 01:28 PM

The story of the "original" Biewers is filled with holes. The FACT is that the whole story is based on a story passed on from person to person. Before DNA pedigrees were an honor systems from which many of the German imports had falsified papers. Sad as it may be it is true. The MARS testing has been tried over and over and it does give an accurate result with a very small margin of error contrary to what some say, even those who admit to never doing it or even knowing anyone who has. No one can definitively say their dogs are direct descendents of the Biewers dogs because many of the lines out of Germany had "doctored" papers and the biggest Biewer registry in Germany that people like to reference will register Yorkies, Biewers, Biros and Golddust and allows all of them to cross so this is not credible. The original Biewer and its truth is and will be a mystery. through the years yorkies were bred with "Biewers" and other breeds and new genes entered the gene pool resulting in what is known today as "Biewers" and the BTCA, regardless of the nay sayers, has used the research study and the MARS test to help have the breed recognized as a PURE BREED in America byt the American Rare Breed Assoc. in South Africa by the KUSA and in Brasil by the CBKC. I have done my research for a very long time and I have been in dogs for 26 years and I am quite convinced that Biewer Terriers are not Yorkies. Crossing Biewers and yorkies gets you a mixed breed. plain and simple. Now there are Biros and golddusts?? What next? Biewer Terriers DO NOT produce these new colors, why not?? Beacuse they are a breed not a variety of yorkie. Sorry to those who will dispute me but I need no more proof, this is a breed.

pstinard · 06-19-2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynzy420

My Biewer(s)
Mia 1: Floppy ears, deaf, very very pink skin, heart defects, spotted like a dalmation with the in addition to the "standard" marks...She lived a year

Mia 2: Floppy ears, very very very pink skin, long and tall, beautiful but schizophrenic, I swear she is hyper as hyper can be.

My Yorkies:
Miss Mini: Puppy Mill dog...however; disposition is absolutely typical yorkie.
Vincenzo: Picture perfect Yorkie in every way!

Vincenzo:

Hi Lynzy,

I'm sorry to hear about the health of your Biewers

. For a point of reference, were these BTCA Biewers, or Biewers derived from more recent crosses to Yorkies? I'm just trying to absorb as much information as possible.

pstinard · 06-19-2013, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvlee

I DO understand that your diatribe is part of the over all controversy with the Biewer. I HAVE read the prior YT posts dealing with this issue where a lot of breeders on ALL sides tossed a lot of mud around. I HAVE read about the people who falsified award records in 2010. I HAVE visted and read through all the different "clubs" & registries. I HAVE also already read about the controversy with DNA testing. And probably everything else having to do with this would be, soon to be or already is an independent breed.

I think I've done enough to reach my own conclusion - even if I never mated 2 tri-colored dogs myself.

FOR ALL BIEWER or PARTI-YORKIE NEWBIES: It's not that difficult to follow. You can reach your own conclusion for yourself too.

I don't think any corner should take the bully pulpit. It's easy enough for people who can read & navigate the web to figure out. It's not rocket science -- just people & dogs and everything's posted online somewhere.

Tracey

Yes indeed, I'm reading all this information too. I read about the DNA tests and the falsified records, and I'm the verge of forming an opinion. I'm just waiting for the last few pieces of the puzzle. My question is, when I've formed my opinion, should I state it, or keep it to myself

? I'm inclined to state it, but if I do, I'll back it up with evidence and give my reasoning.

chachi · 06-19-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstinard

Yes indeed, I'm reading all this information too. I read about the DNA tests and the falsified records, and I'm the verge of forming an opinion. I'm just waiting for the last few pieces of the puzzle. My question is, when I've formed my opinion, should I state it, or keep it to myself

? I'm inclined to state it, but if I do, I'll back it up with evidence and give my reasoning.

State it ive read alot of biewer threads and Im curious

gemy · 06-19-2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstinard

Yes indeed, I'm reading all this information too. I read about the DNA tests and the falsified records, and I'm the verge of forming an opinion. I'm just waiting for the last few pieces of the puzzle. My question is, when I've formed my opinion, should I state it, or keep it to myself

? I'm inclined to state it, but if I do, I'll back it up with evidence and give my reasoning.

You don't need our opinion to do one thing or the other. The issue as you should have seen is and has been pretty divisive as a hot topic.

Those that care to put their passion aside, and to try to understand the science, might get their world view expanded. And those that want only to understand only their fixed point of view, will remain fixated on that.

It truly is the KISS principle. That is an ancient term I know which defines my age

pstinard · 06-19-2013, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemy

You don't need our opinion to do one thing or the other. The issue as you should have seen is and has been pretty divisive as a hot topic.

Those that care to put their passion aside, and to try to understand the science, might get their world view expanded. And those that want only to understand only their fixed point of view, will remain fixated on that.

It truly is the KISS principle. That is an ancient term I know which defines my age

As you know, my opinion will be based on science, but I'll try to keep it simple. And I won't base my opinion on any particular agenda or fixed point of view, because I don't own a Biewer or have any close friends who own Biewers. But I have to admit that they are as cute as buttons! How is that for full disclosure?

bchgirl · 06-19-2013, 03:00 PM

I don't believe in the "science" of MARS testing for any breed or mix. Period. I never tested my biewers...but know others which did when the test was originally offered. Saluki came back as a result and basset hound in another. The test can only determine within 3 generations. I've seen some biewers with large ears...but not basset hound size. This was one test result. There are others just as off the wall.
MARS also communicated the test is fallible to AKC. Scroll down to page 4 regarding a request by the parent club of Norwich terriers.
https://images.akc.org/pdf/board_minutes/0712.pdf

I know people which knew the two breeds behind their mixed breed litters...and the results were no where close.

luvlee · 06-19-2013, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstinard

As you know, my opinion will be based on science, but I'll try to keep it simple. And I won't base my opinion on any particular agenda or fixed point of view, because I don't own a Biewer or have any close friends who own Biewers. But I have to admit that they are as cute as buttons! How is that for full disclosure?

What do you know? I've reached the same conclusion, so far, as you! The Biewer is an adorable dog!

In full disclosure, I have a little guy reserved for me in Virginia right now.

And I will say that when I was looking for one, I found that the prices were comparable no matter how the pup was registered and whatever "club" affiliation the breeder had.

I think they're pricey because they are so darn cute!

Tracey

bchgirl · 06-19-2013, 04:10 PM

My puppies are priced no more than any reputable show breeder of any breed asks. I show in the venues in which I'm allowed under AKC judges, I health test my breeding pairs, my puppies have liver panels done along with regular screenings, my contract is more generous than most, I stand behind my breedings. I'm doing all I can... to produce healthy puppies.
And yes they are pretty dang cute too.

BWRTerrierFan · 06-19-2013, 04:42 PM

The MARS test that must be performed is the the Wisdom Panel PROFESSIONAL Unrivaled Dog Breed Detection & Accuracy - Wisdom Panel Professional which is a blood draw NOT the cheek swab test. The cheek swab test does not compare the same markers as the blood test. The cheek swab test will have some odd results however the blood draw test is quite accurate. While many people say they have not used it or they have a friend who did etc., I can say I personally have tried it on Biewers as well as mixes to test the accuracy for my own knowledge and it was 100% spot on for each of the tests I performed.

BWRTerrierFan · 06-19-2013, 04:46 PM

The MARS test which must be used is the WISDOM PANEL PROFESSIONAL which is a blood test, NOT the cheek swab test. The Blood test is quite accurate and I say this with my own personal first hand experience. I tested Biewers as well as some mixes to check the accuracy of the test and it was 100% spot on! The cheek swab test is not the same as the blood test.

06-19-2013, 12:47 PM	#48
bchgirl Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: at da beach Posts: 15,444 Blog Entries: 2	MARS never removed biewer terrier from their website. It had been listed under the test for mixed breeds but seems now their products have all changed into a singular one. __________________ Deb, Reese, Reggie, Frazier, Libby, Sidney, & Bodie Trace & Ramsey who watch over us www.biewersbythebay.com Last edited by bchgirl; 06-19-2013 at 12:48 PM.

06-19-2013, 01:10 PM	#49
GreenwoodBiewer YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 458	actually, I believe it was gone for awhile.. people said they couldn't find it.. I went and looked for it when they asked me too.. and I couldn't find it either. I really don't know why it wasn't listed but it wasn't anywhere on the site.. I don't know for how long or the reasoning behind it.. just know it was not there when I looked. I was secretly hoping they had a "Eureka' moment.. but I guess that's not the case since it's back again ha.. such a pity Diana __________________ Greenwood Biewers Last edited by GreenwoodBiewer; 06-19-2013 at 01:11 PM.

06-19-2013, 03:00 PM	#56
bchgirl Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: at da beach Posts: 15,444 Blog Entries: 2	I don't believe in the "science" of MARS testing for any breed or mix. Period. I never tested my biewers...but know others which did when the test was originally offered. Saluki came back as a result and basset hound in another. The test can only determine within 3 generations. I've seen some biewers with large ears...but not basset hound size. This was one test result. There are others just as off the wall. MARS also communicated the test is fallible to AKC. Scroll down to page 4 regarding a request by the parent club of Norwich terriers. https://images.akc.org/pdf/board_minutes/0712.pdf I know people which knew the two breeds behind their mixed breed litters...and the results were no where close. __________________ Deb, Reese, Reggie, Frazier, Libby, Sidney, & Bodie Trace & Ramsey who watch over us www.biewersbythebay.com Last edited by bchgirl; 06-19-2013 at 03:02 PM.

06-19-2013, 04:10 PM	#58
bchgirl Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: at da beach Posts: 15,444 Blog Entries: 2	My puppies are priced no more than any reputable show breeder of any breed asks. I show in the venues in which I'm allowed under AKC judges, I health test my breeding pairs, my puppies have liver panels done along with regular screenings, my contract is more generous than most, I stand behind my breedings. I'm doing all I can... to produce healthy puppies. And yes they are pretty dang cute too. __________________ Deb, Reese, Reggie, Frazier, Libby, Sidney, & Bodie Trace & Ramsey who watch over us www.biewersbythebay.com

06-19-2013, 01:28 PM	#50
BWRTerrierFan Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: USA Posts: 22	The story of the "original" Biewers is filled with holes. The FACT is that the whole story is based on a story passed on from person to person. Before DNA pedigrees were an honor systems from which many of the German imports had falsified papers. Sad as it may be it is true. The MARS testing has been tried over and over and it does give an accurate result with a very small margin of error contrary to what some say, even those who admit to never doing it or even knowing anyone who has. No one can definitively say their dogs are direct descendents of the Biewers dogs because many of the lines out of Germany had "doctored" papers and the biggest Biewer registry in Germany that people like to reference will register Yorkies, Biewers, Biros and Golddust and allows all of them to cross so this is not credible. The original Biewer and its truth is and will be a mystery. through the years yorkies were bred with "Biewers" and other breeds and new genes entered the gene pool resulting in what is known today as "Biewers" and the BTCA, regardless of the nay sayers, has used the research study and the MARS test to help have the breed recognized as a PURE BREED in America byt the American Rare Breed Assoc. in South Africa by the KUSA and in Brasil by the CBKC. I have done my research for a very long time and I have been in dogs for 26 years and I am quite convinced that Biewer Terriers are not Yorkies. Crossing Biewers and yorkies gets you a mixed breed. plain and simple. Now there are Biros and golddusts?? What next? Biewer Terriers DO NOT produce these new colors, why not?? Beacuse they are a breed not a variety of yorkie. Sorry to those who will dispute me but I need no more proof, this is a breed.

06-19-2013, 04:42 PM	#59
BWRTerrierFan Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: USA Posts: 22	The MARS test that must be performed is the the Wisdom Panel PROFESSIONAL Unrivaled Dog Breed Detection & Accuracy - Wisdom Panel Professional which is a blood draw NOT the cheek swab test. The cheek swab test does not compare the same markers as the blood test. The cheek swab test will have some odd results however the blood draw test is quite accurate. While many people say they have not used it or they have a friend who did etc., I can say I personally have tried it on Biewers as well as mixes to test the accuracy for my own knowledge and it was 100% spot on for each of the tests I performed.

06-19-2013, 04:46 PM	#60
BWRTerrierFan Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: USA Posts: 22	The MARS test which must be used is the WISDOM PANEL PROFESSIONAL which is a blood test, NOT the cheek swab test. The Blood test is quite accurate and I say this with my own personal first hand experience. I tested Biewers as well as some mixes to check the accuracy of the test and it was 100% spot on! The cheek swab test is not the same as the blood test.