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06-19-2013, 10:55 AM | #31 |
Donating YT Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Oakland County MI
Posts: 6,190
| interesting info on all parts, and from what I heard there is a very strong division of beliefs. Anywho, regardless of how much a topic has been beat to death not everyone is aware of that. Sometimes links to old threads are helpful or a simple that has been discussed to death, if you do a search you might get quicker answers goes a long way. So OP there is lot of info on this way beyond what is posted here. No matter what the true answer is I find Parties or Biewers quite adorable. I also like the idea of mixing parties and Biewers that some breeders are doing. IMO a breed that young and that expensive probably does have a relatively small gene pool to work with.
__________________ Lola my amazing little yorkie-pom Donna |
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06-19-2013, 10:59 AM | #32 | |
YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Urbana, IL USA
Posts: 3,648
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Parti/Biewer Difference? - Quality Traditional and Parti Yorkshire Terriers I found this paragraph: IN the USA's demand for more Biewers there was possibly some mixing of breeds done in Germany to supply the demand for the Biewers, The BTCA says they are a mixed breed because they have had DNA tested on 100 Biewers, If this is true that they show up as not a Yorkshire Terrier then indeed some mixes were added which makes them not a true Biewer, The true Biewer (In name Only) tri colored yorkie in Germany came from 2 traditional colored Yorkshire Terriers , How can they be a separate breed? They came from 2 yorkies that carried the gene to produce tri colors. They were not mixes they were JR Champions and they were all Yorkshire Terrier. If it is the case that the Germans may have been supplying mixed breed dogs to meet American demand for Biewers, then that muddies up the situation considerably! And as for the "tri colored yorkie in Germany [that] came from 2 traditional colored Yorkshire Terriers," we only have their word for it, since there was no genetic testing at that time, and you had to take a breeder's word for it that he or she was working with pure lines. Believe me, the MARS test IS scientific and it is the best test available at this time--it is used by veterinary researchers and veterinarians worldwide. Breed identification through DNA analysis will only improve with time, whether it is MARS that does it, or whether some other company starts doing it. Perhaps every Biewer should be tested--it would only add $80 or so to the price, which is a small price to pay for peace of mind, and it would also add to the scientific database of knowledge about this interesting and controversial dog. Also, if people are breeding Biewers with standard color Yorkshire Terriers in order to increase their base of genetic diversity, of course the progeny will become more and more Yorkie-like over time in DNA tests. Personally, I would like to see Biewers maintained as their own separate line by crossing Biewers with Biewers--otherwise, you are going to start losing the personality differences that some people claim also make Biewers distinct from Yorkies (besides their color pattern). BTW, I have no stake in this controversy other than providing the most scientific information (in my judgment) that is currently available. | |
06-19-2013, 11:00 AM | #33 |
YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota
Posts: 458
| No, I have never and will never had my Biewers tested with the MARS test. Why would I? Do they have the Biewer Terrier back on the list of dogs again? I thought they took it off after the lawsuit. The information that group of "ladys" submitted for that so called breed was so tainted I thought they had pulled it. It was such a small collection of dogs used it could hardly be called much of a sample. I do not have Biewer Terriers.. I have/had Biewer Yorkshire Terriers.. I do not breed Biewer to Biewer.. I have learned my lesson! That line of yorkies is far to in bred, to many genetic problems, and still you hear people shouting from the roof tops BREED BIEWER TO BIEWER ONLY!!! MY GRACIOUS!!! What are we trying to prove??? What is the goal??? What can possibly be that important??? Is it REALLY that important to SAY both of my dogs can trace back to Mr Biewers original YORKIE!! I mean really?? so what if my dog has bad digestion, seizures, teeth, liver ??? I understand ALL yorkies have these same issues.. BUT, when you have such a limited gene pool to begin with.. where do you go when you know these problem exist??? How long can you stick your head in the sand before you can no longer breath?? Is if fair to bring the puppies down with you? I breed back to Yorkies, I also breed to Parti yorkies.. I am ALWAYS honest.. Yes, I believe some of my dogs were directly related to the dogs used in the group these "lady's" submitted for the Biewer Terrier data.. if they actually submitted samples from the dogs they said they did, which of course I question because I question everything that these people say and do. I no longer have any of those Biewers as I have had to spay/ neuter all of my dogs because of genetic issues that I did not want to pass on to future generations. Diana
__________________ Greenwood Biewers |
06-19-2013, 11:07 AM | #34 | |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,631
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06-19-2013, 11:09 AM | #35 |
YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota
Posts: 458
| Sorry, I was writing my post while you were writing yours. I WISH there was a good test, really I do, however.. for good results, you would need good data FIRST! The original data used to create the Biewer profile was not good.. I don't believe there was 100 dogs.. they SAID they used 100.. questionable at best! And, if they were all Biewers.. also, questionable.. with the results they were getting you have to wonder WHAT they used as there test samples?? I'm all for science and believe me, if it was a test using anyone else's data OTHER than the BTCA'S I'd be all for it.. I dare say everyone would be. But, it still wouldn't get me to breed Biewer to Biewer.. Health First is my motivation.. nothing else matters in my book. Diana
__________________ Greenwood Biewers |
06-19-2013, 11:21 AM | #36 | |
I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 37,147
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__________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427 | |
06-19-2013, 11:24 AM | #37 | |
YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota
Posts: 458
| Quote:
The YTCA will still not accept these "off colored" yorkies, but the AKC was able to prove, through DNA that the parti pups came from traditional parents, just like in Heir Biewers case. It is no different. The Biewer pups, born from traditional parents are yorkies. In Germany, they are still bred to yorkies, not only to other Biewers. In the same litter you will have some dogs registered as Biewers, some as yorkies, all based on their COLOR! In Germany, that color can make them their own BREED, here... of course it can not. Diana
__________________ Greenwood Biewers | |
06-19-2013, 11:24 AM | #38 | |
YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Urbana, IL USA
Posts: 3,648
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Yes, Biewer Terriers are back on Wisdom Panel's list of breeds detected: Biewer Terrier | Wisdom Panel I wasn't aware of the lawsuit, so if you have links to information about that I'd be interested in reading it--I like collecting as much information as possible before I form an opinion. I believe that the Wisdom Panel has about 100 Biewers in its DNA collection--that's in comparison with about 300 standard color Yorkshire Terriers. I'm just throwing that out as interesting information. Clearly, they need more samples of all breeds to add to their database to improve their accuracy. I do respect your honesty, I appreciate the problems that arise when working with a limited gene pool, and I understand why you bred Biewers to Yorkies in order to broaden the gene pool. And I'm sorry that you had to spay/neuter your breeding stock because it had accumulated too many unhealthy traits. I didn't come here to judge or condemn, I just came here to learn and also to provide what information I know. Thanks for helping me out! | |
06-19-2013, 11:27 AM | #39 | |
YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota
Posts: 458
| Quote:
I'm sorry if you got confused. Diana
__________________ Greenwood Biewers | |
06-19-2013, 11:33 AM | #40 | |
YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Urbana, IL USA
Posts: 3,648
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06-19-2013, 11:36 AM | #41 |
I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 37,147
| Then say that dont insinuate they can be shown AKC which is what people think of when it comes to showing not these other registrys you have named that who knows who they are
__________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427 |
06-19-2013, 11:40 AM | #42 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: USA
Posts: 7,652
| My Biewer(s) Mia 1: Floppy ears, deaf, very very pink skin, heart defects, spotted like a dalmation with the in addition to the "standard" marks...She lived a year Mia 2: Floppy ears, very very very pink skin, long and tall, beautiful but schizophrenic, I swear she is hyper as hyper can be. My Yorkies: Miss Mini: Puppy Mill dog...however; disposition is absolutely typical yorkie. Vincenzo: Picture perfect Yorkie in every way! Vincenzo:
__________________ The Above advice/comments/reviews are my personal opinions based on my own experience/education/investigation and research and you can take them any way you want to......Or NOT!!! |
06-19-2013, 11:57 AM | #43 | |
YT Addict Join Date: May 2012 Location: secaucus, nj
Posts: 483
| Quote:
I think I've done enough to reach my own conclusion - even if I never mated 2 tri-colored dogs myself. FOR ALL BIEWER or PARTI-YORKIE NEWBIES: It's not that difficult to follow. You can reach your own conclusion for yourself too. I don't think any corner should take the bully pulpit. It's easy enough for people who can read & navigate the web to figure out. It's not rocket science -- just people & dogs and everything's posted online somewhere. Tracey | |
06-19-2013, 12:07 PM | #44 | |
YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota
Posts: 458
| Quote:
I'm sorry if you are unaware of all the other venues open for people to show their dogs. There are opportunities available other than just the AKC and people actually have fun. Diana
__________________ Greenwood Biewers | |
06-19-2013, 12:09 PM | #45 | |
YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota
Posts: 458
| Quote:
Diana
__________________ Greenwood Biewers | |
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