I'm getting a dna test done. Then what??

[lynzy420]

What Pstinard said...please attach a copy of the results.

Great post Nancy1999 and Yorkiemom1...as usual.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by joyziegirl

Boy are you so right in what you have to say. If two Yorkies bred together can produce a smooth coat Yorkie that is so far away from the breed standard, you know something in the lines is causing it. Mars is not 100% right. So I look at Minnie as being in that 10% mismatched category, that lead them to call her a fullbred Yorkie. They never seen a picture of Minnie, maybe they should. I bet they would be quick to want to get the egg off their faces, because it really makes their test look very foolish.

Considering that dogs have between 19,000 and 20,000 genes, and it only would only take a mutation in one or two of them to make a Yorkie not look like a Yorkie, there is nothing foolish at all about these test results and the MARS test in general--the foolishness lies in not knowing the limitations of the test and what the results do or do not mean.

Consider that there are disreputable breeders who are trying to create "new" and "exciting" colors in Yorkies by mating them with other breeds to get the color from the other breed, and then mating them back to Yorkies to transfer the color to a dog that "looks" like a Yorkie, but may actually be 25% some other breed. People will "ooh" and "aah" over that dog and swear up and down that it's a Yorkie because the size is right, the muzzle shape is right, the ears are right, the hair texture and length is right. But a MARS test will reveal that the dog is 25% some other breed, and there would have been no other way of finding that out if it weren't for DNA testing.

The point is, Minnie might be an off type due to one or two genes, and there are probably a lot of dogs that look more like a Yorkie than Minnie does, but are not purebred Yorkies, and that is not the fault of MARS, Inc. MARS is VERY customer-friendly, and if Jen has any questions about the results of Minnie's test and wants to email them a photo of Minnie to get an explanation of how Minnie could test as a Yorkie but look so different, I'm sure they would be happy to work with her further.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by joyziegirl

Boy are you so right in what you have to say. If two Yorkies bred together can produce a smooth coat Yorkie that is so far away from the breed standard, you know something in the lines is causing it. Mars is not 100% right. So I look at Minnie as being in that 10% mismatched category, that lead them to call her a fullbred Yorkie. They never seen a picture of Minnie, maybe they should. I bet they would be quick to want to get the egg off their faces, because it really makes their test look very foolish.

Just because Minnie does not look like what we believe a yorkie should look like, it is the fault of this company and test? People who blame the company that have no idea what the test is and clearly do not know that there are many many yorkies who do not fit our mold of what we think the breed looks like. Don't blame Mars...blame the greedy breeders....the ones who have NO idea what they are doing or don't care and put money first on their list. Reputable breeding does not make money for the breeders.....disreputable does.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Considering that dogs have between 19,000 and 20,000 genes, and it only would only take a mutation in one or two of them to make a Yorkie not look like a Yorkie, there is nothing foolish at all about these test results and the MARS test in general--the foolishness lies in not knowing the limitations of the test and what the results do or do not mean.

Consider that there are disreputable breeders who are trying to create "new" and "exciting" colors in Yorkies by mating them with other breeds to get the color from the other breed, and then mating them back to Yorkies to transfer the color to a dog that "looks" like a Yorkie, but may actually be 25% some other breed. People will "ooh" and "aah" over that dog and swear up and down that it's a Yorkie because the size is right, the muzzle shape is right, the ears are right, the hair texture and length is right. But a MARS test will reveal that the dog is 25% some other breed, and there would have been no other way of finding that out if it weren't for DNA testing.

The point is, Minnie might be an off type due to one or two genes, and there are probably a lot of dogs that look more like a Yorkie than Minnie does, but are not purebred Yorkies, and that is not the fault of MARS, Inc. MARS is VERY customer-friendly, and if Jen has any questions about the results of Minnie's test and wants to email them a photo of Minnie to get an explanation of how Minnie could test as a Yorkie but look so different, I'm sure they would be happy to work with her further.

[pstinard]

As an addendum to my last post, I'd like to add that Minnie is indeed an off type, and far from the breed standard for Yorkshire Terriers (even if it is due to only one or two genes), and it would wise for Minnie's breeder to stop breeding Minnie's parents. But Minnie is special and beautiful in her own way, and the fact that she tests as a purebred Yorkie even though she doesn't look like one and has generated so much comment and interest makes her even more special and unique.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by joyziegirl

Boy are you so right in what you have to say. If two Yorkies bred together can produce a smooth coat Yorkie that is so far away from the breed standard, you know something in the lines is causing it. Mars is not 100% right. So I look at Minnie as being in that 10% mismatched category, that lead them to call her a fullbred Yorkie. They never seen a picture of Minnie, maybe they should. I bet they would be quick to want to get the egg off their faces, because it really makes their test look very foolish.

Did they say that Minnie was in that 10% mismatched category?

[lynzy420]

I, after all this from the OP and the breeder etc., would still like to see the results attached here. Not that I doubt, especially now that a geneticist has actually explained in more detail combined with the knowledge of what unethical, puppymills, and those breeders making money off the backs of "designer" breeds...are doing...I'd still like to see the results and the numbers, more so actually.

[lynzy420]

Pstinard, have you seen the results for yourself? Wondering if your sharing knowledge (thankful that you are) based on your studies or from the actual results that you have viewed?

[joyziegirl]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Considering that dogs have between 19,000 and 20,000 genes, and it only would only take a mutation in one or two of them to make a Yorkie not look like a Yorkie, there is nothing foolish at all about these test results and the MARS test in general--the foolishness lies in not knowing the limitations of the test and what the results do or do not mean.

Consider that there are disreputable breeders who are trying to create "new" and "exciting" colors in Yorkies by mating them with other breeds to get the color from the other breed, and then mating them back to Yorkies to transfer the color to a dog that "looks" like a Yorkie, but may actually be 25% some other breed. People will "ooh" and "aah" over that dog and swear up and down that it's a Yorkie because the size is right, the muzzle shape is right, the ears are right, the hair texture and length is right. But a MARS test will reveal that the dog is 25% some other breed, and there would have been no other way of finding that out if it weren't for DNA testing.

The point is, Minnie might be an off type due to one or two genes, and there are probably a lot of dogs that look more like a Yorkie than Minnie does, but are not purebred Yorkies, and that is not the fault of MARS, Inc. MARS is VERY customer-friendly, and if Jen has any questions about the results of Minnie's test and wants to email them a photo of Minnie to get an explanation of how Minnie could test as a Yorkie but look so different, I'm sure they would be happy to work with her further.

Thanks for pointing those valuable things out. And I agree with you wholeheartedly. But really what good is a test if it tells us something is something it doesn't look like. I myself as a hobby breeder and have been involed with breed creation, would have never sold Minnie as a fullbred Yorkie. If anything I would have kept her for six months, had her spayed and placed in a pet home. To be honest with you any breeder that is willing to sell a puppy that is so off center from the rest, well lets just say that it comes back to bite you in your a$$ets.

[Lil Sis]

This is really interesting... a lot of "food for though" . I love biology and used to love the gentic studies (way back in the day lol) so I think I understand most, but not all that could have happened.

We live in an amazing time that we have all this information... it is just so cool.

One the pup is born it is a little life, and I am glad she will have the care and love she is due.

[lynzy420]

Great informational thread, how bout some tags folks.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

Pstinard, have you seen the results for yourself? Wondering if your sharing knowledge (thankful that you are) based on your studies or from the actual results that you have viewed?

Hi Lynzy, I haven't seen Minnie's results for myself. I've read widely, though, and I looked at the sample results for purebred dogs that are posted on the Wisdom Panel website, so I know what to look for. I would LOVE to see Minnie's results, especially, the part where they compare her sample to other Purebred Yorkies in their database--that way we can see whether she falls in the middle of other Yorkies, or whether she is on the fringe, where something fishy is more likely to be going on. To me, the 90% accuracy means that Minnie is at least 90% Yorkie (and probably more). Truly, that's the best that any DNA genetic testing can offer right now. And the fact that Minnie's vet took the DNA sample means that it is less likely to be contaminated or degraded, and the accuracy is likely to be greater. If you look at MARS Inc.'s Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/DoggieDNA), they invite people to submit photos of their dogs along with the testing results for the public to view, so they have nothing to hide. They also get a number of people with questions about the results, and they answer every single post with a comment of how to contact them so they can answer their questions.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by joyziegirl

Thanks for pointing those valuable things out. And I agree with you wholeheartedly. But really what good is a test if it tells us something is something it doesn't look like. I myself as a hobby breeder and have been involed with breed creation, would have never sold Minnie as a fullbred Yorkie. If anything I would have kept her for six months, had her spayed and placed in a pet home. To be honest with you any breeder that is willing to sell a puppy that is so off center from the rest, well lets just say that it comes back to bite you in your a$.

Thanks joyziegirl, and I get your point. Minnie definitely doesn't look like a purebred Yorkie, and she shouldn't have been sold as one, especially with the breeder saying that her coat would grow in later--that alone was deceptive. I am confident of Minnie's results (that she carries 90% or more Yorkie genes), and to me this shows that it only takes one or two bad genes to completely throw a wrench into a breeder's program. And I also think that the tests prove that Minnie is not a Chorkie or some other mixed breed, she is just a poorly bred Yorkie. And I'm not saying that to be mean to Minnie, because as I said, she is unique and special.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

Great informational thread, how bout some tags folks.

This thread would be perfect if Jen could post Minnie's results. I will PM her and ask if she can do it, or if I can help her do it.

[gemy]

I like many here, was very surprised at the test results. But I do have some questions floating around in my head. Exactly who are the Yorkies that make up their (Mars) comparative database? Registered Yorkies with what registry?

Did they (Mars) cross reference or somehow obtain the DNA results from AKC that does have DNA information on purebred Yorkies?

As a breeder, of a Rare Breed that is relatively new, I would expect to get some very small % of non BRT if I was to do a Wisdom Panel test - but then again, I doubt very much if they have many BRT's in their database.

I do agree with some other posters here, that the breeder should refrain from mating that particular pair again.

I also think that the breeder given a pup that seemed so far off the breed standard would have DNA'd the parents to make sure that pup was from those parents. If the answer was yes, then well and good, and at least a comment from the breeder to the buyer about how far off standard this puppy was.

It is quite sad to see so many Yorkies that look so far off standard.

What is important is that Minnie is in a good home.