Smart A$$

[chachi]

The other problem with spanking is the angry parent that is doing it cant adaquately judge when enough is enough

[Lil Sis]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I respect your opinions.

However, I don't agree that there is a right way to hit a child. In my world, that statement couldn't exist. Just as, there is no right way to hit a dog. Hitting, popping, swatting - whatever anyone wants to call it - it's an inappropriate physical act that you're passing on to others. And that 'other' internalizes being hit, and it is something buried deep in their psyche - and may cause problems now, and later in life.

Also, you're saying find "what works" -- well, a hit may "work" for the PARENT in stopping a behavior. However, those hittings may NOT be working for that child's inner esteem - and that child has NO way of knowing this or expressing that intellectually, at this age. As a result, *that* will effect him greatly as he develops intellectually, later.

There is no way to justify hitting a child. To have such a larger physicality over a small child, and then to use that advantage to hit, and instill fear and obedience? To me, that's victimization, not parenting.

A child should never have to fear being hit, from their PARENTS. Parents are supposed to be a child's ultimate safe haven. Fear of being hit is not a safe haven.

I think a little fear of parent is good. I don't mean in that there is a fear of being harmed.. but fear that if the right thing is not done there is a price to pay. I have a little "fear" of my boss-- fear of having to be called down for a meeting. It makes me be on time to work, and to be follow the rules. Why don't we speed when driving? Fear of a ticket-- otherwise I would speed for sure.
I am sure my girls got home by curfew because they knew what would happen if they didn't (grounding) and they were just a little afraid of what I would do... not that I would hit them or hurt them. Embarrassing is a great tool with teens

Originally Posted by My lil friend

I respect your opinion and you have put it vey nicely.
When I said find what works I was stating for each child,that is why I took the time to put what worked for each of mine. I was not stating for this second. Each child is different,even if they life under the same roof.
My children have NEVER feared me,nor have they feared what my reaction would be to their foolishness. The attitude of "Mom is going to absolutely go off the deep end" is not here as well. Because I came from a home where screaming,slapping and ingeneral out of control was the norm. I have made it my goal in life to make sure that wasn't what went on under my roof,because this is NOT parenting. This is just existing under the same roof,it is not creating a family unit.
So again, I try to not criticize if there is actual parenting going on. Discipline in any form that is out of control (even timeout can be out of control) is not discipline but abuse. Sitting a child in a chair for EVERYTHING and for to long is still not discipline.

I agree with a lot you are saying. If you broke the "chain" of "abuse" by raising you children differently I am so proud of you.
Hitting -- yelling-- hurting in anyform is not discipline it is punishment!!!!

I agree.. even timeout can be abusive if too long and for too many reasons

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

A child should never have to fear being hit, from their PARENTS. Parents are supposed to be a child's ultimate safe haven. Fear of being hit is not a safe haven.

This is what I said . I didn't say fear in general. I'm talking about fear of hitting, in any of its forms.

Originally Posted by Lil Sis

I think a little fear of parent is good.

I don't disagree with this, mostly. I'd probably go for respect of authority rather than fear.

But again, I fully believe, without any doubt, that a child should NEVER fear being hit by a parent. Physical aggression or even implying a child should fear their physical safety with their parents, is not something that can ever be justified. When a parent hits, they've crossed one of the most important physical boundaries of that child, a boundary that should be nurtured, not violated.

[Jacksmom052709]

Wow - just wow... I go from reading a post about having a pup in a store and the owner being approached by Ms. VIP to allowing children in restaurants.... Of course I didn't read all 15 pages of posts, but look at how that leap went....

[Lil Sis]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

This is what I said . I didn't say fear in general. I'm talking about fear of hitting, in any of its forms.



I don't disagree with this, mostly. I'd probably go for respect of authority rather than fear.

But again, I fully believe, without any doubt, that a[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"] child should NEVER fear being hit by a parent.[/COLOR] Physical aggression or even implying a child should fear their physical safety with their parents, is not something that can ever be justified. When a parent hits, they've crossed one of the most important physical boundaries of that child, a boundary that should be nurtured, not violated.

yes.. true.. you have a good point. Your wording is a bit better than mine
I think we are saying the same just in a different way.

I will say this, I have friends that are "touchers" you know the type, they poke you when they are talking ect. I don't like it. I think some times a "poke" on the fanny is a way of a parent making a point.
Now.. like I said I think the only way to change a person who was raised to hit is education! There are many cultures that believe in physical punishment. So there are bad parents who don't care, bad parents who just don't know better.
Think of the people that we were complaining about in stores.. most were not educated people. I guess education (and I am not talking BS, AS, BA, AA or PHD here guys- I talking life education, compassion) is what will change people.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Jacksmom052709

Wow - just wow... I go from reading a post about having a pup in a store and the owner being approached by Ms. VIP to allowing children in restaurants.... Of course I didn't read all 15 pages of posts, but look at how that leap went....

It happens here, it's funny how discussions can leap all over - but that's the nature of it...YT allows it as much as possible, esp if it's a healthy conversation.

Originally Posted by Lil Sis

yes.. true.. you have a good point. Your wording is a bit better than mine
I think we are saying the same just in a different way.

I will say this, I have friends that are "touchers" you know the type, they poke you when they are talking ect. I don't like it. I think some times a "poke" on the fanny is a way of a parent making a point.
Now.. like I said I think the only way to change a person who was raised to hit is education! There are many cultures that believe in physical punishment. So there are bad parents who don't care, bad parents who just don't know better.
Think of the people that we were complaining about in stores.. most were not educated people. I guess education (and I am not talking BS, AS, BA, AA or PHD here guys- I talking life education, compassion) is what will change people.

Yes yes yes yes yes. Agree.

I like the idea of grasping a hand firmly and forcing a child to focus on your eyes and tell them what they're doing wrong, even if it doesn't work or sink in; something along those lines will work eventually - unless the child has brain chemistry issues or is autistic etc...that's a whole 'nother issue.

Completely agree on education, the kind you're talking about!

[Wylie's Mom]

I meant to say...I'm really happy that no one is getting upset over this discussion. Parenting is such a sensitive topic, understandably .

I don't think there is a Good Parent or a Bad Parent - I think it's more like, there is a Parent (just biology there) or a Better Parent (all ranges of such) (who likes to evolve as a parent).

[Woogie Man]

I probably should just keep my mouth shut, but I mostly agree with My Lil Friend about this. It's hard to put into just a few words, but yes, I believe that spanking can be done in an appropriate way.

We raised 2 boys that have grown to be men I am proud of. They have generous loving hearts, were never bullies, were good students, etc.. They did both get a few spankings, from me, in their younger years, though.

I was brought up in a different time and got more spankings than I felt I should have. My Mom was the disciplinarian and she was pretty tough with it. I won't say abuse...it wasn't that, but I knew I would do things differently. Honestly, though, in that time, what she did was pretty typical.

What I did differently was: first....I never used anything but an open hand applied to the behind. Also, neither of mine EVER got a spanking without several warnings first. When I did actually spank them, it was without anger and was never excessive. And, really, spankings were few and far between.

Spanking, to me, should not be the first thing a parent looks to. Time spent nurturing and teaching kids is by far the what should be most used. I wouldn't rule out spanking entirely, though. To each his own but I don't like inferences that equate spanking with abuse. It CAN be abusive, but so can neglect and failing to properly teach life's lessons to our children. We are not their parents to JUST love them, but to raise them to be responsible adults. Children, unlike our pets, grow up and move on to make their place in the world. We have to get them ready for that.

I don't agree that spanking should be used to 'startle' a kid. That's punishment coming out of the blue. I wouldn't want to live wondering when the next one was coming. The whole idea of corporal punishment is that 'certain' things may have that consequence, but it should not be a surprise to the child.

I see here on YT what some wish for those that abuse animals and such. Pretty nasty sometimes. Did you ever think that that person might have done differently had they received a better upbringing? Though some of those folks may have been abused as a child, many likely had no discipline or guidance. Too little discipline can have the same effect as too much, IMO. I believe it's reflected in our society today, too. Not spanking is a recent phenomena in our society and so is the breakdown of respect, lack of a work ethic among many and general moral relativism. Hmm...might there be a connection?

OK, that's my thoughts. I respect others opinions, but I'd like to have mine respected, too.

[CouversMom]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Hitting - lightly, moderately, or severely is still hitting - no matter how anyone tries to position it. I would never hit anyone (and never have) unless they were fatally attacking my family, my pets, another human being, or another animal.

I could not agree with you any more!! This is why I love you Making your child fear you is not good parenting.

[lisaly]

Before I got to read further, the thoughts that went through my mind as I read about parenting and spanking were those more eloquently expressed by Ann than I could have written. I don't personally have children, but I speak from my own experiences in my childhood and my experiences as an adult and as a teacher. I know many loving people who I consider great parents who gently spanked their children, but it's not a method I could ever consider. Spanking reinforces fear and sometimes violence, and I don't think either of them ever encourages a person to do the right thing. I am very soft-spoken with my students, yet I am asked why I rarely have issues with discipline with my "kids." There is so much that can be gained by a gentle touch to ease someone's fears or to get their attention, and even a small hug can do so much. When you treat people and even children with respect, you can reach them far deeper than you can with fear. I've taught high school students for twenty six years, but I also taught elementary school children for six years when I first began my teaching career. Not all children can be reached this way, but positive reinforcement works far more than negative reinforcement. I work with students with learning disabilities, ADD, ADHD, Autism, Asperger's Syndrome, and emotional problems, and I can usually reach them by gaining their respect and by showing them respect. Having people fear you teaches them nothing about being kind and respectful individuals.

I personally will go to the ends of the earth for someone I respect, who treats me with respect, and who believes in me. I never want to let someone like that down, so I will try and work much harder for him. Fear is never a motivator for me; it actually can paralyze me in some respects. As a child there was nothing I wouldn't have done to please my mother and I only received a great deal of love from her. The slightest look of displeasure would have upset me to no end because I respected her so much. I was never hit once by her. My father was someone who I feared, and although I never did anything wrong or hit by him, I was still afraid. Although I was never disrespectful with him, I had far less respect for him than I felt for my mother. He occcasionally hit my sisters, but it was never in a way anyone would consider abusive. However, the mental scars left are great for my sisters. I'd like to think I fully escaped them, but I doubt I could have completely. I am very, very fortunate that I also learned from my mom about how being loving and treating people with respect leaves a far greater impact on bringing about positive behaviors. I believe that you need to be with people, particularly with children, the way you'd like them to act. If you want them to treat others with kindness, you should model that kindness. I wouldn't say it's always perfect in my experience with the "kids" in my life, but few students I've worked with have failed to respond to kindness, respect, and love.

[Furbaby Friend]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I probably should just keep my mouth shut, but I mostly agree with My Lil Friend about this. It's hard to put into just a few words, but yes, I believe that spanking can be done in an appropriate way.

We raised 2 boys that have grown to be men I am proud of. They have generous loving hearts, were never bullies, were good students, etc.. They did both get a few spankings, from me, in their younger years, though.

I was brought up in a different time and got more spankings than I felt I should have. My Mom was the disciplinarian and she was pretty tough with it. I won't say abuse...it wasn't that, but I knew I would do things differently. Honestly, though, in that time, what she did was pretty typical.

What I did differently was: first....I never used anything but an open hand applied to the behind. Also, neither of mine EVER got a spanking without several warnings first. When I did actually spank them, it was without anger and was never excessive. And, really, spankings were few and far between.

Spanking, to me, should not be the first thing a parent looks to. Time spent nurturing and teaching kids is by far the what should be most used. I wouldn't rule out spanking entirely, though. To each his own but I don't like inferences that equate spanking with abuse. It CAN be abusive, but so can neglect and failing to properly teach life's lessons to our children. We are not their parents to JUST love them, but to raise them to be responsible adults. Children, unlike our pets, grow up and move on to make their place in the world. We have to get them ready for that.

I don't agree that spanking should be used to 'startle' a kid. That's punishment coming out of the blue. I wouldn't want to live wondering when the next one was coming. The whole idea of corporal punishment is that 'certain' things may have that consequence, but it should not be a surprise to the child.

I see here on YT what some wish for those that abuse animals and such. Pretty nasty sometimes. Did you ever think that that person might have done differently had they received a better upbringing? Though some of those folks may have been abused as a child, many likely had no discipline or guidance. Too little discipline can have the same effect as too much, IMO. I believe it's reflected in our society today, too. Not spanking is a recent phenomena in our society and so is the breakdown of respect, lack of a work ethic among many and general moral relativism. Hmm...might there be a connection?

OK, that's my thoughts. I respect others opinions, but I'd like to have mine respected, too.

I actually think this was well thought out and do not disagree with it. Thank you for sharing Woogie.

I've known many great kids/adults who parents spanked them (not on an abusive level). None of them consider themselves abused or are afraid of their parents.

I think that every child is different and there is also a right and wrong way to go about everything. ::shrug:: Not sure how I will raise my kids if I ever have any (right now that is not something I want, but as the saying goes never say never :P), but it is good to read about different points of view.

I agree 100% that society has deteriorated, but the source of that deterioration has so many contributing factors, I think we'd be hard-pressed to think of them all. It is sad really.

[Taryn0405]

I think it's what works for the child personally. There are people like me, who as a child was terrified of spanking, but if you put me in my room or the "naughty" stool I would have had not have treated it as a punishment and been off in my own little world. With saying that, my brother on the other hand you could have spanked until the cows came home, but if you put him in his room he was a wreck and that was the worse punishment.

My parents spanked, and I didn't grow up violent. And I know if my husband and I could have kids that I would do what my parents did and figure out what punishment worked best with which kid.

I know I'm going to have people disagree with me, but all I know is I have customers come in all the time, and there are some kids that if I acted up like that my mom, in public, would have swated my butt all the way out to the car. And there are times where I want to smack the kid back out to the car. But honestly, we as kids never threw fits are acted bad in public because, to be hoenst, we did fear what my mom could do. No physically but, she was mom and we knew darn well when she gave us the "look" we better shape our butts up.

[McheleM]

Originally Posted by Lil Sis

I think most people discipline like their parents - that is what they know.
I don't think "punishment" should be any form of hitting. By Fla. law child abuse is hitting with an object or closed fist with the intent to hurt. So a smack or pop on the fanny (with all the extra padding it will not hurt the child) is in that "gray" area. I have seen children hurt more by actions and words than any smack on a fanny....

I think it is a shame of the people who have children. You think the rehomeing or lack of vet visit for dogs is sad... look at the abuse of children.

I went the complete opposite. My mom was very heavy handed. My step dad used to have to pull her off of us to keep her from hitting us. I feel my mom was abusive. It wasn't discipline.

I have never raised my hand to one of my kids, and never will, because I am afraid of being like my mother. She didn't know when to stop, and I have chose not to open myself up to the possibility.

[Cha Cha]

I wish I could say spanking didn't have a negative affect on me. I agree what works for one child may not work for another, but spanking was a form of discipline I chose not to use. I have heard that we tend to parent our kids the way we were parented, but I chose to parent mine the way I wanted to be parented but wasnt. Funny, now that my kids are older they give me feedback on my parenting of them and compare me to their friend's parents. It is funny mostly, but I am proud of what they have to say about my parenting and glad that they are not telling me they got underserving spankings, the way I tell about my parents.

[givemecouture]

Originally Posted by Jacksmom052709

Wow - just wow... I go from reading a post about having a pup in a store and the owner being approached by Ms. VIP to allowing children in restaurants.... Of course I didn't read all 15 pages of posts, but look at how that leap went....

LOL I was thinking the same thing, lol! Its like reading a YT diary heehee