Here we go again, and again...

[kjc]

Okay, banning is not a good option. Then, permits, ownership fees, saftey and control classes, puppy and dog care classes for owners of any large dog capable that's not fair... for all dog owners. I would submit to testing, classes, fees, whatever if my neighbors had to go too... at least then they may be made aware of the damage their dogs could do, and steps they need to take to contain and control their animals, like fencing and such. And they need to be taught that they, as owners, are responsible for any damage their dog may do.

I chose Yorkies bc I don't want 6 foot, lidded chain link fencing in my yard to contain my dogs. I don't want to have to be responsible for children/adults/cats/dogs being maimed or killed. I don't want to be dragged down the street when my dog sees what he thinks is prey. When my Yorkie sees a squirrel, I can hold her back (most times, JK). That is why I choose to own Yorkies, and not a large breed dog. Plus they eat less and poop less and puke less. And I trust them more not to turn on me, than I would any big dog. I want companionship, not a liability.

I have to push my stepdaughter in her wheelchair out to the bus every morning and bring her back in the house every afternoon. One day, the neighbor's Rottie was out on walkabout. Biggest (intact) Rottie I've ever seen in my life. I had to stand between him and my SD. I am sick of this crap. Even though I know now he's a big baby, I did not know that the first time we met. And I can not trust any dog around my SD (except therapy dogs).

And, correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that the small dog attacks were brought on by an approach by the victim? Every attack I mentioned by big dogs was not instigated by the victim (at least not knowingly). Dogs trained to fight dogs... then something is very wrong with them when they attack humans (brain cells gone wacky). The dog that came after me I had previously met and petted at least 6-8 times over the course of 2 years.

And one last problem... why are these fighting type dogs overrunning the shelters across the country? Overpopulation by unscrupulous breeders. The vet I used to work for is starting a mobile SN clinic to drive through the city streets and find intact animals and try to convince the owners to S/N on the spot for free.

And to clarify, I live in Baltimore County, where the little girl was mauled. There was a dog fighting ring busted right up the street from where I live 15 years ago. Drove by the place everyday, never noticed anything going on. Never even heard dogs barking. The problem is maybe worse in the city, but it's really happening all over.

[Ellie May]

Ontario's pit bull ban did very little good and now they are kinda backed into a corner. What now, ban the breed that they assume has the next highest bite potential?

Pit bull ban hasn?t cut dog bites - thestar.com

I don't see a problem with handling classes, but keeping in mind that I would have to submit to the same with my small dog, I'd then be against it. Remember what handling means to most trainers...choke collars, prong collars, etc. - even on Yorkies. So then we have a whole new debate about what owners have to go and to what extent they have to listen after being trained, etc.

And I don't know about other areas of the country, but here the largest population of pit bulls is in Detroit. Pit fighting here is huge. These people don't register their dogs, so how would they be tracked to come to training...? Police could go door to door, but there are some places in Detroit where that is just not going to happen.

I think stricter laws should be in place for those caught dog fighting because a lot of the pit bulls here are bred it. I also don't think most dogs should just be chained up outside. That's a good way to cause aggression.

I don't think there is a solution that would make everybody happy, but banning a breed is unfair.

[yorkieusa]

Originally Posted by kjc

Okay, banning is not a good option. Then, permits, ownership fees, saftey and control classes, puppy and dog care classes for owners of any large dog capable that's not fair... for all dog owners. I would submit to testing, classes, fees, whatever if my neighbors had to go too... at least then they may be made aware of the damage their dogs could do, and steps they need to take to contain and control their animals, like fencing and such. And they need to be taught that they, as owners, are responsible for any damage their dog may do.

I chose Yorkies bc I don't want 6 foot, lidded chain link fencing in my yard to contain my dogs. I don't want to have to be responsible for children/adults/cats/dogs being maimed or killed. I don't want to be dragged down the street when my dog sees what he thinks is prey. When my Yorkie sees a squirrel, I can hold her back (most times, JK). That is why I choose to own Yorkies, and not a large breed dog. Plus they eat less and poop less and puke less. And I trust them more not to turn on me, than I would any big dog. I want companionship, not a liability.

I have to push my stepdaughter in her wheelchair out to the bus every morning and bring her back in the house every afternoon. One day, the neighbor's Rottie was out on walkabout. Biggest (intact) Rottie I've ever seen in my life. I had to stand between him and my SD. I am sick of this crap. Even though I know now he's a big baby, I did not know that the first time we met. And I can not trust any dog around my SD (except therapy dogs).

And, correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that the small dog attacks were brought on by an approach by the victim? Every attack I mentioned by big dogs was not instigated by the victim (at least not knowingly). Dogs trained to fight dogs... then something is very wrong with them when they attack humans (brain cells gone wacky). The dog that came after me I had previously met and petted at least 6-8 times over the course of 2 years.

And one last problem... why are these fighting type dogs overrunning the shelters across the country? Overpopulation by unscrupulous breeders. The vet I used to work for is starting a mobile SN clinic to drive through the city streets and find intact animals and try to convince the owners to S/N on the spot for free.

And to clarify, I live in Baltimore County, where the little girl was mauled. There was a dog fighting ring busted right up the street from where I live 15 years ago. Drove by the place everyday, never noticed anything going on. Never even heard dogs barking. The problem is maybe worse in the city, but it's really happening all over.

Banning worked here - like a charm! They've been banned here for 24 years, if I remember correctly. Bad memory. No more attacks have happened. Just the occasional dog bite that doesn't amount to more than broken skin.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by yorkieusa

Banning worked here - like a charm! They've been banned here for 24 years, if I remember correctly. Bad memory. No more attacks have happened. Just the occasional dog bite that doesn't amount to more than broken skin.

Is that a ban on just Pit Bulls? Think I'll move. Haha.

[gemy]

BSL doesn't work. We have had it for five years, and incidence of dog bites did not drop dramatically.

But there are plenty of problems. The public generally speaking has no idea on how to meet strange dogs. The owners do NOT train their dogs, at least many do not. Once puppy class is done, wow my dog is trained (not).

Just last night we were out walking our big boy Magic, about 100 feet away a man with 2 poodle mixes; they went crazy barking at Magic, pulling on the lead, etc. What did the owner do? Nothing, no corrections at all. Magic was told to ignore, which he did, and went about his business. The owner said wow, your dog is well trained, I said yes he is, and it's a good thing too. You really should try to control your dog's aggressive barking, it is likely to lead to trouble one day.

We have had responsible pet ownership weeks run by the CKC over the past three years, I dont know if it has made a difference or not, to the general public.

I still see folks walking dogs off leash, that are not under the control of their owners. People running up to strange dogs, kids that are clueless about how to greet a dog. The list goes on.

I like the idea of mandatory training to get a dog license and to renew it. Like a driver's test.

[moshes_human]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

As to the idea that it's a replaceable breed, so then there must be another dog like a Yorkie so we can just replace them too...

there is, in fact, something very special about pit bulls. So special that I am drawn to the breed... There isn't another breed that can just replace them. Not even boxers... I would trust a (trained) pit around a child way before I would trust Ellie around a child.

My father in law fell in love with the breed years ago and has been raising them. He has 2 now and really they are some of the most sweetest dogs, they really are. Just big babies who can't stand not to be petted and spoiled. My Husbands all time favorite pet was Sable a pitt. She was loyal and sweet and would have given her life to save his if the need ever arose. She was also super smart and very "human" like.

[Ringo1]

I don't know the answer and feel a little bit conflicted about the whole 'bully breed' thing.

It IS true that a small dog can bite; but most likely, the yorkie is not going to cause a fatality OR do the damage that a Pit, Rot, GSD, etc. can do.

Just when I think we should ban all Pits - I remember Cesar Milan's Daddy. What a wonderful example of what that breed could be.

I think it's because ALL THE WRONG PEOPLE purchase these dogs and they have NO IDEA how to train, handle, exercise, or be good stewards of these animals.

I do not know how to legislate that.

[kjc]

It's not that I don't like the breed, or any breed. We were seriously considering adopting a Bully (PB or a Frenchie) before we found Tink. I had thought about how to manage one in my house with Peek a Boo. In the end, we decided against it. I felt like I would be putting Peek's life at risk, and I didn't want to chance it. Just not worth it to me, and I felt I wasn't up to the task, wasn't Alpha enough all the time. Maybe if I was younger and didn't have back problems and a young adult to care for.

I felt bad because I had a few picked out at the shelter, and was sad not knowing their fate. Then we saw Tink, and adopted her instead. I guess I realized my limitations and I'm glad I did the research.

But now I have to deal with 3 PB/PB mixes whose owners leave them off leash most of the time. And the Mastiff puppy down the street may need a higher fence, or more training. And the lady that was being dragged down the street by her Cane Corso, haven't seen them lately. I think if I did have a PB I wouldn't be as worried (better chance of surviving an attack than a Yorkie).

[kjc]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

I don't know the answer and feel a little bit conflicted about the whole 'bully breed' thing.

It IS true that a small dog can bite; but most likely, the yorkie is not going to cause a fatality OR do the damage that a Pit, Rot, GSD, etc. can do.

Just when I think we should ban all Pits - I remember Cesar Milan's Daddy. What a wonderful example of what that breed could be.

I think it's because ALL THE WRONG PEOPLE purchase these dogs and they have NO IDEA how to train, handle, exercise, or be good stewards of these animals.

I do not know how to legislate that.

Daddy was a purebred American Staffordshire Terrier, .

[hellosunnydays]

It is so unfortunate that children, people, and pets have been maimed and killed by "pit bulls." From posters' anecdotes, it seems that the pit bulls who attacked were typically not contained. I chalk it up to irresponsible pet ownership. I have seen and heard of many pit bulls who were simply chained and left outside with no socialization or training. And I really think that we need more responsible owners who understand the risk for violence that is associated with these breeds, and can properly control their dogs.

My local dog parks have banned pit bull type dogs, since in my area at least, there seems to be more irresponsible than responsible put bull owners. I will not be surprised if there are illegal pit bull fighting rings here in the area, and I will not be surprised if some pet pit bulls came from these lines bred for dog fighting. Of if some pet pit bulls came from backyard breeders who were not careful to exclude aggressive pits from their lines.

I have met some responsible pit bull owners and their dogs were so sweet. I did notice that these owners supervised their pet greatly when around people and pets, so these owners did understand the potential for violence and did not let their guard down.

[yorkietalkjilly]

The pitfull used to be described as any dog bred to kill another dog in the fighting pit. Dog fighters pounced on the bully breeds since the Staff and others like it are not too large, gangling or slow or too small to have a lot of brute force. They bred for a dog with a huge bite radius(apparently dog fighters love this quality), that have a terrier's focus and killing instinct, bred it to some Mastiffs to enlarge it some and other breeds until they got what we now know as the pitfull. Those they begin to line breed for extreme aggression and kill instincts. Labs and Beagles and Pomeranians just do not have those disturbing facts in their remote or current lineage as the pit does.

Probably as long as we have humans doing such a disservice to animals as breeding them for their killing/destructive abilities as they are breeding some pits as of this moment and those genes permeating their progeny, we are going to have a likelihood of those dogs' less aggressive littermates placed with other homes where they may be wonderful pets in some hands but it others, can wind up attacking and damaging people and other dogs and cats.

Our legislators and police departments have got to realize the problem is basically a human one and unless we dog lovers press our reps to vote laws that that allow our police officers to put owners of such dogs in jail for a few years, with no quick release in 6 mos., nothing else will probably work. Or they can ban the breeds with the highest human kill/damage rate and a pet owner will have to have a DNA test to prove there is none of that breed in their dog's lineage. I sure hate to keep hearing stories such as the one that started this thread since myself or loved ones could be the next victim of such dogs! When you personalize it, this story become urgent.

I know if I have my Tibbe out in the front yard and I see a small breed approaching, I don't really worry and just gather my baby up in my arms, wait on the porch to watch. If I should see a large dog coming, especially a pitbull, I am going into the house with Tibbe as fast as I can as I know that could be a dog with bad, bad genes and I've got to keep my baby and me safe. It is a sad fact.

[chachi]

Aggressive pitbulls are because of bad owners that dont train or buy them to be viscious and bad breeding. Just watch pitbulls and parolees and pitboss on animal planet and if you have a negative view of pitbulls your mind will change

[lexi43]

I remember a long time ago my friend and I used to visit the Hunter (the tv show) set and Stephanie Kramer had a pit bull named Maggie. The was the sweetest dog I've ever seen. She roamed around the set all day and loved to be petted and once in awhile would sneak a snack from the food tray. I think it's how the dog was trained and treated.
I also remember many many years ago the mail man was attacked by a little Pom and had his neck ripped opened when the Pom jumped up and went for him. I don't dislike any breed of dog but I have to say I wouldn't want to meet up with a Pit Bull in a dark alley.

[Lil Sis]

Originally Posted by moshes_human

My father in law fell in love with the breed years ago and has been raising them. He has 2 now and really they are some of the most sweetest dogs, they really are. Just big babies who can't stand not to be petted and spoiled. My Husbands all time favorite pet was Sable a pitt. She was loyal and sweet and would have given her life to save his if the need ever arose. She was also super smart and very "human" like.

this is the problem... nothing is cut and dry, black or white there are so many areas of gray.
Me, personally, do not like pit bulls or mixes. I am scared of them and have seen too many bad things. My BIL had one many years ago that was very sweet. I think that the Pitt bulls that are making the bad press have been breed to be aggressive - not even the same dog as my bil's molly.

I used to sort of feel that way about dobies, but I have a friend who breeds dobies and I see that (if breed correctly) they are a great dogs. I let them play with my guys with supervision (very close supervision) because you just never know. She has a very hard time selling her pup (used to get $3000 per dog-- show quality) because many people don't want the added expense of the extra home owners insurance and other issue of having a dog that is perceived as aggressive

I had a neighbor who had a dobie puppy and she had it trained to be an attack dog. The stupid lady used to say things like "I told my son (a 7 year old kid) not to play attack with his dog" really lady??? I told her, if her dog ever attacked anyone I would be a witness that she had him trained and knew the dangers. They moved.
I also had a neighbor (different) who had German Shepards, what a great dog. Now... if I was out and saw either breed running toward me off leash.. well heart attack!!

I watched a show on pitt bull rescue on tv-- they were talking about a gene that makes the pitt bulls very aggressive (if I remember correctly it showed up in blue markings?) so it is a breeding problem. And like already said-- the wrong people breed the wrong type of dog for the wrong reasons and we all suffer and the wrong dogs suffer.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Crazy breeders and owners make a vulnerable public.