Here we go again, and again...

[yorkietalkjilly]

Whatever you want to call them, it is the dog with the bully features of a powerful body and wide, strong bite that resemble a pitfull that is doing the most of the damage. If the human carnage crosses into many bully breeds and all of them are attacking, "it is what it is", as all the athletes say now days. If your premise is correct, then a lot of bully dogs are terribly vicious and doing great damage. And we have a bigger problem than ever.

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Whatever you want to call them, it is the dog with the bully features of a powerful body and wide, strong bite that resemble a pitfull that is doing the most of the damage. If the human carnage crosses into many bully breeds and all of them are attacking, "it is what it is", as all the athletes say now days. If your premise is correct, then a lot of bully dogs are terribly vicious and doing great damage. And we have a bigger problem than ever.

What i meant by that post is that a lot of those dogs probably don't have any bully in them at all. Lots of dogs fit the general pit bull requirements but are totally different mixes or purebreds. Labs, Vizslas, Rhodesians, Catahoulas, Ridgebacks, Boxers, Mastiffs, Entlebuchers, Plott hounds, Beagles, and all the mixes of these breeds have been mistaken for pit bulls or pit bull mixes.

[kjc]

Another important point is that Pitties and others tend to grab their prey and HOLD ON! Tools, poles, sticks are needed to pry open their jaws to release the victim.

On Animal Planet a few nights ago, this young man had an intact PB he wanted to have evaluated. A tester was suited up, the dog was let loose on him, and he grabbed the guy's arm (I think the guy stuck his arm out to block the dog from grabbing his head/neck). And he hung on. The owner recalled the dog and the dog let go and returned immediately.

The dog was wearing a 3 inch thick steel chain for a collar. The evaluators suggested neutering the dog... the owner refused (couldn't do THAT to him!) So they refused to work with the dog. At that point I changed the channel.

Gross stuff:


In high school, a friend's horse was mauled by a pack of PBs in the field and had to be put down. The dogs ripped the tendons out of the horse's lower hind legs, and left it there, where my friend found her the next morning.

Another friend that owned a farm for horses had a PB for protection, or so he thought. One day, the owner came home to find a horse in his kitchen, being disembowled by the PB. The owner took the dog to the vet to be PTS. The dog was so hyped up from his bloodfest three full injections didn't phase him. The vet took the dog outside and used a gun.

This is just insanity.

My neighbor breeds Pekes. Her son got a PB, a small one as a puppy. The dog was intact, and was raised in the home with these breeding dogs and many puppies. Never been fought, a nice dog... till one day something set him off and he turned and grabbed one of the adult Pekes and started to shake it, but stopped and put it down. The Peke survived but was very shaken/shocky for a while afterwards.

Neighbor's PB held a grudge against other neighbor's Rottie. Rottie was in the front middle seat of the pick up truck, owner's son in the window seat and owner was driving. PB flew through the window over the child to attack the Rottie. Court ruled child was endangered by the dog... PB ordered PTS. He now has 1 PB, and a PB/Boxer mix. And still does not follow county leash laws.

I was walking my GSD and one Yorkie in front of his house, and this PB came flying out the 2nd story window (through the screen) and hit the ground running dead at us. I ushered my dogs behind a bush and begged them to stay there and be quiet. (They did) I watched the PB running dead for me and I waited (thinking what is the best word to say to stop this beast before she kills me and my dogs) till she was 3-4 feet away, and I hollered 'STOP' with everything I could muster. She stopped, turned and trotted up to the front door. I shook like a leaf for 10 minutes and couldn't talk for 3 days, but I am alive. And so were my dogs.

And the couple who were walking their Yorkies one evening who were cornered by a pack of 4 PBs... they seemed to want the dog the lady had in her arms. Fearing for their lives, she gave in and tossed the Yorkie to the pack (he was killed instantly). The pack was distracted long enough and the couple snuck away. I don't think they have recovered from that incident yet.

So, yeah, some of these are unreported stats, and I dread hearing how many incidents go unreported. I am just sick of it all. People are not allowed to own wild animals without permits (lions and tigers) because they are a threat to humans. I would feel alot safer if some kind of rules and restrictions were put in place and enforced. I feel like I'm walking 'bait' dogs when we go for a walk, and that is just crazy. I don't walk all 4 together anymore, bc I can't protect them all at the same time. I want a stun gun for protection, but they're illegal here. Maybe a flare gun would work. Saw that on a TV show once. IDK, I just DK. Sorry for all the horribleness...

[Britster]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Yorkies sare feisty little things and I am sure nip often, but they would have a pretty hard time opening their little mouths enough to really hurt anyone.

So, there it is -- my controversial opinion. Sorry pit bulls -- man has let you down! But there just is not other logical answer that will save all the lives that will be lost otherwise.

I agree that man has definitely let these innocent dogs down... did you see the photo of the ShihTzu attack? Surely that was not just a little "nip" and they are not that much bigger than Yorkies.

The main reason ban legislation doesn't work is because it's never a black or white issue. So, if we are allowed to ban Pitties because they were "bred to kill" that also makes it able to ban Yorkies because they were ALSO bred to kill. Both are terriers. Who is to say we can ban one, and not the other? (Btw, Pits were bred to kill dogs. NOT people. Any Pit that showed human aggression in the early stages of the breed were killed). Pugs are banned in a certain area for goodness sake. I can't imagine being told I am no longer allowed to have keep a Pug. Or if suddenly, Yorkies became super vicious because of stupid breeders, and suddenly, Yorkies were banned and were no longer allowed to have them.

I just try to put myself in their shoes. These Pitties are peoples PETS. As passionate as we are about Yorkies -- they are a very passionate crowd about their breed. They like certain traits to them and characteristics that no other breed possesses. It's not that easy to just be like "Oh, I'm gonna pick another breed..." just like so many of us here will always have Yorkies.

Responsible Pit owners never bring their dogs to dog parks, for example. Because they know the risk involved. They know that even IF another dog starts something with them, the Pit will get blamed.

I don't believe that the breed will ever cease to exist. It's just not realistic. I wish that every one would have to pass some sort of test before owning one... shoot, I wish EVERY person that was going to get a dog had to go through some kind of course first or something. But THAT will never happen, either.

[ErinsWhitney]

Lake Wales Woman Saved From Attacking Dogs, Seriously Injured | TheLedger.com


My friend who was viciously mauled just last week. It took 2 people beating and kicking the dog with walking sticks, an umbrella, and their fists to get it to let go of her, and the attack lasted several minutes. The dog was just a puppy, whose owners were a family with small children. They are ticking time bombs, and it's a shame for their sake that this has been done to them.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by Britster

I agree that man has definitely let these innocent dogs down... did you see the photo of the ShihTzu attack? Surely that was not just a little "nip" and they are not that much bigger than Yorkies.

The main reason ban legislation doesn't work is because it's never a black or white issue. So, if we are allowed to ban Pitties because they were "bred to kill" that also makes it able to ban Yorkies because they were ALSO bred to kill. Both are terriers. Who is to say we can ban one, and not the other? (Btw, Pits were bred to kill dogs. NOT people. Any Pit that showed human aggression in the early stages of the breed were killed). Pugs are banned in a certain area for goodness sake. I can't imagine being told I am no longer allowed to have keep a Pug. Or if suddenly, Yorkies became super vicious because of stupid breeders, and suddenly, Yorkies were banned and were no longer allowed to have them.

I just try to put myself in their shoes. These Pitties are peoples PETS. As passionate as we are about Yorkies -- they are a very passionate crowd about their breed. They like certain traits to them and characteristics that no other breed possesses. It's not that easy to just be like "Oh, I'm gonna pick another breed..." just like so many of us here will always have Yorkies.

Responsible Pit owners never bring their dogs to dog parks, for example. Because they know the risk involved. They know that even IF another dog starts something with them, the Pit will get blamed.

I don't believe that the breed will ever cease to exist. It's just not realistic. I wish that every one would have to pass some sort of test before owning one... shoot, I wish EVERY person that was going to get a dog had to go through some kind of course first or something. But THAT will never happen, either.

Yes, I saw the picture of the "ShihTzu attack." Although it looked yucky and I am sure hurt -- It was JUST her nose. It was not a serious wound, no danger of becoming a fatality. She will probably look just fine in a month, looks very superficial so may not even scar. If a pit bull had latched on like that, she would probably have no face. There is just a huge difference. You really cannot compare them as the same. A toy dog is just not capable of inflicting the same caliber of damage. We are also usually able to over-power the small dogs but not so with a large pit or rottie. Big difference again in how we can use some self-defense against one but not so much against the other. It is not the dogs' fault -- it is man's fault all the way around -- from breeding them, to allowing them to roam unattended, untrained, etc.... Just too many jerks out there!

What legislation are you talking about that does not work? Some cities have banned the dogs and although I am sure some still live there, at least people have a law to call upon if there is a threat.

Just what trait or characteristic about a pit bull is not able to be fullfilled by another breed of dog? I cannot see where their would be any huge void if all of them were spayed & neutered and the breed just slowly disappeared within a decade or two. There ar eplenty of other large, intelligent, loving dogs.

Responsible pet owners are not a problem -- it is the irresponsible ones! They rarely take their dogs to a dog park either. They usually just chain them up in the back yard or let them run loose! As far as why we could ban one and not the other.....I think that is pretty obvious. Yorkies are not going to kill and maul.

I do like your idea of all pet owners having to pass a test. I have advocated that before -- both for pet ownership and before becoming a human parent. The test would have to be both basic knowledge and psychological in nature. It is the crazies "who know enough" but "don't care enough" that are the real danger. I don't know that I have the only answer, but I have not heard of any other that will save as many lives as an immediate enforced spay 7 neuter campaign. Still, I'm open if anyone has another workable solution.

[Lil Sis]

Originally Posted by Britster

I agree that man has definitely let these innocent dogs down... did you see the photo of the ShihTzu attack? Surely that was not just a little "nip" and they are not that much bigger than Yorkies.

I think to compare a little shih tzu who bit a strange woman who put her face in the dogs face and was bitten on her nose to the many pit attacks that have killed or maimed adults and children is a stretch

I am sure you are saying that to make a point.

The main reason ban legislation doesn't work is because it's never a black or white issue. So, if we are allowed to ban Pitties because they were "bred to kill" that also makes it able to ban Yorkies because they were ALSO bred to kill. Both are terriers.

How many people have yorkies killed... the ban is not what the breed is but because of the attacked and the deaths.. in my opinion

Who is to say we can ban one, and not the other? (Btw, Pits were bred to kill dogs. NOT people. Any Pit that showed human aggression in the early stages of the breed were killed). Pugs are banned in a certain area for goodness sake. I can't imagine being told I am no longer allowed to have keep a Pug. Or if suddenly, Yorkies became super vicious because of stupid breeders, and suddenly, Yorkies were banned and were no longer allowed to have them.

I just try to put myself in their shoes. These Pitties are peoples PETS. As passionate as we are about Yorkies -- they are a very passionate crowd about their breed. They like certain traits to them and characteristics that no other breed possesses. It's not that easy to just be like "Oh, I'm gonna pick another breed..." just like so many of us here will always have Yorkies.
I agree
Responsible Pit owners never bring their dogs to dog parks, for example. Because they know the risk involved. They know that even IF another dog starts something with them, the Pit will get blamed.
I am sure that is true
The thing is ... there are a lot of owners who are not responsible. I do know people who have pit and they are great. But I know more owners who have problems, who want an aggressive dog or can not control a dog like a pit.
I would not have one, nor would I let my children around most. I feel bad for the breed.. but why take a change????

I don't believe that the breed will ever cease to exist. It's just not realistic. I wish that every one would have to pass some sort of test before owning one... shoot, I wish EVERY person that was going to get a dog had to go through some kind of course first or something. But THAT will never happen, either.

yes.. and people should pass a test before becoming parents, that won't happen either


I agree with what fladeb has been saying..

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by Britster

I don't believe that the breed will ever cease to exist. It's just not realistic. I wish that every one would have to pass some sort of test before owning one... shoot, I wish EVERY person that was going to get a dog had to go through some kind of course first or something. But THAT will never happen, either.

I agree. Some people should never own a living creature.

Banning a breed isn't going to stop the breeding of said dog. People will still do it and the dogs will probably become extremely aggressive. Think about the type of people who would illegally keep and breed the dogs. They will probably be the same people who prefer the "game" pit bull used for fighting and looking tough. They will continue to breed the most aggressive dogs that win the dog fights and the problem will become much worse. those hyper aggressive dogs will get out to the general public and even more attacks will happen.

Things that are banned are still going to be done on the down low.

I wish i had a before picture of my face before the plastic surgeon cleaned it up. I do have one before he stitched it up and will try and post it. It was done by a jack russell and he almost tore my bottom lip off. This dog was the same size as some of the bigger yorkies on this site (like britster's jackson) and he did a lot of damage in those few seconds he was latched onto my face.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Yes, I saw the picture of the "ShihTzu attack." Although it looked yucky and I am sure hurt -- It was JUST her nose. It was not a serious wound, no danger of becoming a fatality. She will probably look just fine in a month, looks very superficial so may not even scar. If a pit bull had latched on like that, she would probably have no face. There is just a huge difference. You really cannot compare them as the same. A toy dog is just not capable of inflicting the same caliber of damage. We are also usually able to over-power the small dogs but not so with a large pit or rottie. Big difference again in how we can use some self-defense against one but not so much against the other. It is not the dogs' fault -- it is man's fault all the way around -- from breeding them, to allowing them to roam unattended, untrained, etc.... Just too many jerks out there!

What legislation are you talking about that does not work? Some cities have banned the dogs and although I am sure some still live there, at least people have a law to call upon if there is a threat.

Just what trait or characteristic about a pit bull is not able to be fullfilled by another breed of dog? I cannot see where their would be any huge void if all of them were spayed & neutered and the breed just slowly disappeared within a decade or two. There ar eplenty of other large, intelligent, loving dogs.

Responsible pet owners are not a problem -- it is the irresponsible ones! They rarely take their dogs to a dog park either. They usually just chain them up in the back yard or let them run loose! As far as why we could ban one and not the other.....I think that is pretty obvious. Yorkies are not going to kill and maul.

I do like your idea of all pet owners having to pass a test. I have advocated that before -- both for pet ownership and before becoming a human parent. The test would have to be both basic knowledge and psychological in nature. It is the crazies "who know enough" but "don't care enough" that are the real danger. I don't know that I have the only answer, but I have not heard of any other that will save as many lives as an immediate enforced spay 7 neuter campaign. Still, I'm open if anyone has another workable solution.

Of course a small dog is not going to be able to do the same amount of damage! I'm just saying that it was far more than a little "nip".

BSL doesn't work very well in a lot of places. Also because MANY different breeds are mistaken for a Pit Bull and the rules defining what IS a Pit Bull are not very clear. A lot of Labs are actually listed as Pit Bulls when they are not. Boxers, etc, also get blamed. And they are an ENTIRELY different breed.

In 2007 it was found numbers of dog bites had risen 10% in a year and 50% since 1998-1999. According to the BBC, hospitalizations due to dog bites increased by 25% after 'pit bulls' were banned in Britain.

In 2009 Italy repealed its ban on 17 breeds. At one time Italy banned 92 breeds of dogs. In describing the 2009 law, Secretary for Health, Francesca Martini, said "The previous order included a useless black list which also cataloged breeds of dogs without seeds unknown among others have no scientific basis and without providing any measure of prevention or training of the owners."


In June, 2008, the 15 year old rule banning pit bulls in The Netherlands was lifted. A rule banning rottweilers that was instituted in 2000 was also lifted. The reason? The breed specific legislation failed to reduce incidents of dog bites.



According to the city's own data, when Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada banned 'pit bulls' in 1990, there were 214 reported dog bites that year. For the decade following Winnipeg's 'pit bull' ban, there were an average of close to 50 more dog bites per year.



A number of American cities have repealed breed discriminatory laws because they have proved ineffective, difficult to enforce and costly.

As for why a Pit Bull and not some other breed? Well, why do we have Yorkies and not some other small terrier? Most are all very similar, but we've obviously found something very special about our Yorkies that separates them Cairns, Westies, Scottish and all their other terrier ancestors. Pittie owners obviously have some special connection with that specific breed and probably have their own reasons for why they love them so much.

"As far as why we could ban one and not the other.....I think that is pretty obvious. Yorkies are not going to kill and maul."
You say it's obvious why Yorkies wouldn't ever be banned, but wouldn't it seem obvious that Pugs would never be banned, too? Honestly, I've never met an aggressive Pug in my life... they are all little clown dogs and I've met quite a few. I've met a ton of aggressive Yorkies. Yet Pugs ARE banned somewhere in the US (I'm not sure specifically -- but somewhere in some state/city/town, they ARE). At this rate... let's just ban all dogs, why don't we?

Dog Politics: List Of 75 Banned Or Restricted Breeds - Is Your Dog On The List?

[Lil Sis]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Yes, I saw the picture of the "ShihTzu attack." Although it looked yucky and I am sure hurt -- It was JUST her nose. It was not a serious wound, no danger of becoming a fatality. She will probably look just fine in a month, looks very superficial so may not even scar. If a pit bull had latched on like that, she would probably have no face. There is just a huge difference. You really cannot compare them as the same. A toy dog is just not capable of inflicting the same caliber of damage. We are also usually able to over-power the small dogs but not so with a large pit or rottie. Big difference again in how we can use some self-defense against one but not so much against the other. It is not the dogs' fault -- it is man's fault all the way around -- from breeding them, to allowing them to roam unattended, untrained, etc.... Just too many jerks out there!

What legislation are you talking about that does not work? Some cities have banned the dogs and although I am sure some still live there, at least people have a law to call upon if there is a threat.

Just what trait or characteristic about a pit bull is not able to be fullfilled by another breed of dog? I cannot see where their would be any huge void if all of them were spayed & neutered and the breed just slowly disappeared within a decade or two. There ar eplenty of other large, intelligent, loving dogs.

Responsible pet owners are not a problem -- it is the irresponsible ones! They rarely take their dogs to a dog park either. They usually just chain them up in the back yard or let them run loose! As far as why we could ban one and not the other.....I think that is pretty obvious. Yorkies are not going to kill and maul.

I do like your idea of all pet owners having to pass a test. I have advocated that before -- both for pet ownership and before becoming a human parent. The test would have to be both basic knowledge and psychological in nature. It is the crazies "who know enough" but "don't care enough" that are the real danger. I don't know that I have the only answer, but I have not heard of any other that will save as many lives as an immediate enforced spay 7 neuter campaign. Still, I'm open if anyone has another workable solution.

well said

[Ellie May]

See how fast this turned though from a thread that was kind of anti-pit bull to a thread that is focusing on how small dogs cause less damage if they bite... So if pits are banned, there is nothing stopping us from banning rotts, boxers, mastiffs, shepherds, chows, huskies, etc, etc, etc. These breeds are powerful and can easily cause damage too (and they do). Then still if we are wooried about injury, the rest of the large breeds have to be added in.

Isn't is unneutered, chained males that are most likely to attack? Well, there is no way to know how many of each breed fit this category. Pits often live in these condiions and a lot of owners shouldn't even own fish. So just because it may look like they are responsible for the most attacks doesn't necessarily mean much. Of course the attack rate is going to be higher for a breed treated like this one.

And a friend owns a Boston/bull dog mix that looks like a pit mix. So then Boston and bull dog mixes could be called pit mixes (as Kellie was saying). So there are dogs out there being called pits that definitely aren't.

I can say in a stressful situation for dogs (vet office), pits are not the doggs that cause problems. And actually, cats are pretty darn miserable to work with and their bites cause very serious infections.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

See how fast this turned though from a thread that was kind of anti-pit bull to a thread that is focusing on how small dogs cause less damage if they bite... So if pits are banned, there is nothing stopping us from banning rotts, boxers, mastiffs, shepherds, chows, huskies, etc, etc, etc. These breeds are powerful and can easily cause damage too (and they do). Then still if we are wooried about injury, the rest of the large breeds have to be added in.

Isn't is unneutered, chained males that are most likely to attack? Well, there is no way to know how many of each breed fit this category. Pits often live in these condiions and a lot of owners shouldn't even own fish. So just because it may look like they are responsible for the most attacks doesn't necessarily mean much. Of course the attack rate is going to be higher for a breed treated like this one.

And a friend owns a Boston/bull dog mix that looks like a pit mix. So then Boston and bull dog mixes could be called pit mixes (as Kellie was saying). So there are dogs out there being called pits that definitely aren't.

I can say in a stressful situation for dogs (vet office), pits are not the doggs that cause problems. And actually, cats are pretty darn miserable to work with and their bites cause very serious infections.

Exactly what I was trying to point out.

[Ellie May]

As to the idea that it's a replaceable breed, so then there must be another dog like a Yorkie so we can just replace them too...

there is, in fact, something very special about pit bulls. So special that I am drawn to the breed... There isn't another breed that can just replace them. Not even boxers... I would trust a (trained) pit around a child way before I would trust Ellie around a child.

[Lil Sis]

I always say there is three things not to talk about if you don't want an argument.

1. religion
2. politics
3. how you raise your children

I am now going to add.... 4. how you feel about pit bulls


In my opinion.. to compare a pit bull to a small dog is incorrect.. they don't kill... period.
in my opinion pit bulls are often aggressive and I am just heart sick of hearing of attacks on children, adults and other dogs.
They scare me, and I would not have one around my children or my dogs.
Do I have an anser... not

[Happy2RV]

Our 130 pound Belgium German Shepherd stuck his nose thru a fence a couple of weeks ago. Ended up at vet with stiches inside and out and reconstruction of one of his nostils. I never have liked pitbulls. Next time my husband will be more careful while walking him not to poke his nose where it doesn't belong. I sure hope a kid never sticks his hand in there to pet the pit. It's really scary what they can do.