Here we go again, and again...

[Princes mom]

I know this is an old thread, but we should be mindful of not saying offensive, racist comments, even if they are in a quote. There are other ways to make your point.

[Ellie May]

I still don't even know what breeds people want "banned" because pit bull is not a breed.

Are we talking about banning:
American Pit Bull Terriers
American Staffordshire Terriers
Staffordshire Bull Terriers
And anything that resembles one of the avoid (which could include, but is not limited to Boxer mixes, Mastiff mixes, and Bulldog mixes)?

I'm not sure why dogs lovers would want this.

As for people being able to find another breed to love, that is an opinion. I have a Yorkie, but have met some amazing pitties. Someday I hope to have a bully breed dog. I meet different breeds all the time and honestly thte sweetest ones in situation where they could be fearful tend to be the pit bull type dogs. The shih tzus and usually the bostons tend to be pretty cool too.

[horsnaround]

I did not read the whole thread but thought I would ad that my daughter when she was four on Valentines day was bitten by my brothers Lab mix. This dog had played and was around the kids all the time. But that day she just walked into the home and was bitten for no reason. Of course we are very luck it did not kill her. (it was a face bite and going for the throat) She had to have two plastic surgery's and we are very lucky she can smile. She is a adult now and loves animals even worked in a vets office. But it is not one certain bred that can do this.

[Teresa Ford]

Why don't we ban cars, cigaretts, big dogs and guns , they kill people ! Or one can argue irresponsible people kill people. The bad guys still get guns, drive drunk, and breed aggressive dogs. We can pass laws about owning things but, only law abiding citizens will obey the law. UMM ..... We could pass a law any pet over 20 lbs requires a special permit costing $20,000 security bond. We could make it illegal to breed certain dogs with out a special licence and etc... What ? Oh yes, I forgot this is the USA. How do we we realisticly solve this problem ? I don't know, but like many others I am afraid of loose dogs and feel my Yorkies and myself are in danger. I carry pepper spray and a walking stick. Sad

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Teresa Ford

Why don't we ban cars, cigaretts, big dogs and guns , they kill people !

Valid points.

Some things I ask myself when thinking of BSL (which I'm against) are the following:

*How would BSL be enforced? How would breeders be found? Would the govt hire a huge team to go out and find breeders? Who would pay for this?

*When the dogs were found, would they be put down or...? How would they determine whether or not a dog should be put down? Many pro-BSL advocates say that temperament testing isn't adequate - so it seems immediate euth would be advocated there.

*What about pittie mixes? First, how would they figure out if it's a truly a mix....genetic testing? Would we only legislate pure-breds or also "mixes"...if yes on mixes, what percentage of purebred would we see as valid in legislating? Who would pay for genetic testing?

*Since 'pit bull' isn't a breed itself....how would the dogs be selected to be outlawed? Genetic testing? If yes, which breed of 'pit bull' would specifically be outlawed via genetic testing?

*What if a pro-BSL 'field team' (or whatev they'd call it) finds a 'pittie' during their searches - and it's a family pet w/ no history of aggression? If the breed is outlawed, would this pet be put down?

Anyway....those are questions that always come to mind for me.

[bellemarie]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Valid points.

Some things I ask myself when thinking of BSL (which I'm against) are the following:

*How would BSL be enforced? How would breeders be found? Would the govt hire a huge team to go out and find breeders? Who would pay for this?

*When the dogs were found, would they be put down or...? How would they determine whether or not a dog should be put down? Many pro-BSL advocates say that temperament testing isn't adequate - so it seems immediate euth would be advocated there.

*What about pittie mixes? First, how would they figure out if it's a truly a mix....genetic testing? Would we only legislate pure-breds or also "mixes"...if yes on mixes, what percentage of purebred would we see as valid in legislating? Who would pay for genetic testing?

*Since 'pit bull' isn't a breed itself....how would the dogs be selected to be outlawed? Genetic testing? If yes, which breed of 'pit bull' would specifically be outlawed via genetic testing?

*What if a pro-BSL 'field team' (or whatev they'd call it) finds a 'pittie' during their searches - and it's a family pet w/ no history of aggression? If the breed is outlawed, would this pet be put down?

Anyway....those are questions that always come to mind for me.

see that is exactly it. BSL doesn't work.
i have posted a few times about a dog called Lennox.
so to answer your last questio in particular, here is an extract from his site SaveLennox.co.uk


On the 19th May 2010, Lennox, a five year old American Bull dog Labrador cross was wrongfully seized by Belfast City Council Dog Wardens from his loving family home where he lives with his owners and his kennel mates. Lennox committed no crime nor did any member of the public complain about him. Three Belfast City Council Dog Wardens came with the PSNI to his home unannounced. The Dog Wardens then told the Police to leave as there was no need for them at the location. The Belfast City Council Dog Wardens then had tea with his owners, smoked cigarettes, chatted, played with the other family dogs after which the Dog Wardens then measured Lennox’s muzzle and rear legs with a dress maker’s tape measure and decided on those measurements without seeking any professional advice that he was possible “Pit Bull Type Breed” and so he was led from his home to be put to death by the Council. Northern Ireland has yet to fully implement the same dog legislation as mainland UK; if Northern Ireland were to complete the dog legislation here then Lennox could now be at home with his family and they would not now be facing legal prosecution. The USPCA said the law in Northern Ireland could be changed simply and rather quickly by an order in Council.
Lennox’s family have done more than required by the law as responsible dog owners who also foster dogs for various Northern Ireland dog shelters. When Lennox was a puppy his owners had him neutered, licensed, insured, DNA registered, Pet Safe registered and micro chipped and although the Belfast City Council have issued a dog licence for Lennox for the last five years and continue to do so today, the Council now find the need to class him as a Pit Bull type dog and murder him.- and it is murder in this this case(and many others), not euthanasia.

i know it is a long extract, but it proves a point. this is what BSL does. once it gets going its the responsible owners and loyal family pets that suffer. until he was taken over a year ago to be confined to a concrete cell to await death (which his family are Still appealing) he curled up at night with his 12yr old owner- who he worked like an unofficial emotional support dog in the home- and his yorkie sibling.
now there is a dog that deseves to die, right?

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by bellemarie

see that is exactly it. BSL doesn't work.
i have posted a few times about a dog called Lennox.
so to answer your last questio in particular, here is an extract from his site SaveLennox.co.uk


On the 19th May 2010, Lennox, a five year old American Bull dog Labrador cross was wrongfully seized by Belfast City Council Dog Wardens from his loving family home where he lives with his owners and his kennel mates. Lennox committed no crime nor did any member of the public complain about him. Three Belfast City Council Dog Wardens came with the PSNI to his home unannounced. The Dog Wardens then told the Police to leave as there was no need for them at the location. The Belfast City Council Dog Wardens then had tea with his owners, smoked cigarettes, chatted, played with the other family dogs after which the Dog Wardens then measured Lennox’s muzzle and rear legs with a dress maker’s tape measure and decided on those measurements without seeking any professional advice that he was possible “Pit Bull Type Breed” and so he was led from his home to be put to death by the Council. Northern Ireland has yet to fully implement the same dog legislation as mainland UK; if Northern Ireland were to complete the dog legislation here then Lennox could now be at home with his family and they would not now be facing legal prosecution. The USPCA said the law in Northern Ireland could be changed simply and rather quickly by an order in Council.
Lennox’s family have done more than required by the law as responsible dog owners who also foster dogs for various Northern Ireland dog shelters. When Lennox was a puppy his owners had him neutered, licensed, insured, DNA registered, Pet Safe registered and micro chipped and although the Belfast City Council have issued a dog licence for Lennox for the last five years and continue to do so today, the Council now find the need to class him as a Pit Bull type dog and murder him.- and it is murder in this this case(and many others), not euthanasia.

i know it is a long extract, but it proves a point. this is what BSL does. once it gets going its the responsible owners and loyal family pets that suffer. until he was taken over a year ago to be confined to a concrete cell to await death (which his family are Still appealing) he curled up at night with his 12yr old owner- who he worked like an unofficial emotional support dog in the home- and his yorkie sibling.
now there is a dog that deseves to die, right?

Oh my God. This is deplorable . So, Lennox is STILL in a concrete cell, awaiting his fate? That is just sick. His family must be livid, not to mention heartbroken.

This is EXACTLY what I was getting to in my last post. BSL does not and will not ever work, in my opinion.

[aproctor]

I just started to read this thread and wanted to put my two cents in!

I have two dogs; Lucy a 6lb Yorkie and Tubby a 60lb Black Lab, Springer mix.

I grew up with Black Labs and German Shepards as a kid and they were the most trustworthy, loyal, protective, lovable dogs that were not dangerous at all.

The Black lab that we had when I was quite young (Teddy) would play with us and run like the wind, catch balls in his mouth and jump so high in the air it was amazing. When he got older he had arthritis and one of my nephews were outside playing and decided to poke Teddy with a stick, Teddy grabbed him by the leg and put a decent sized puncture wound in his leg, when my brothers and I were playing outside my brother was on a wooden swing twisting and when he came around one time he hit Teddy in the side and Teddy grabbed my brother in the belly area which required stitches. Teddy NEVER hurt anyone unless he was either provoked or hurt he NEVER just ran after and attacked for no reason.
I would trust a Black Lab with my life!!! I would also trust a German Shepard with my life I believe that if another dog or person tried to attack me Teddy would have spared his life to protect me and the same goes with the German Shepard we had.

One of our friends have a Rotty who is the biggest, sweetest lap dog too and would not hurt a fly and they have an English Bulldog too which is the sweetest dog as well BUT if the two dogs are in the same room the EB goes after the Rotty and she is out for blood~the Rotty tries to protect himself from her and gets hurt at times but he never attacks.
The two dogs remain in the same house but are kept in separate rooms, let out separately, etc. they have three kids in the house, two teens and a 2 yr old. If this was my house I would have to take the EB to a rescue and get her out of my house because she is dangerous. They have had her since she was a pup and have never did anything to warrant the violence she is capable of.

Our previous neighbors have an American Bulldog who was so so so sweet, and she and my lab springer Tubby would have play dates, she was so graceful and would leap through the snow like a deer and chase Tubby who would run like the wind...beautiful and fun to watch. She is the sweetest, most gentle dog and I don't think she would hurt a flee!

I myself as a child was at my aunts house and they had a german shepard, my cousins and I were playing and chasing each other and I happened to be at the end of the line ~ the GS I believe thought i was chasing and trying to hurt the others as we were all screaming and he came after me and chomped down on my butt....that was not fun but I still LOVE GS dogs!!

My Tubby is the sweetest, most gentle, kindest dog ever whom I can put a treat in my mouth and he will somehow get it into his mouth without even touching my lips. Lucy is his boss, she barks at him to get away from her toy and he looks away from her and gently walks away but then I have also caught them playing a chasing game around the house and he is very gentle. The only time he is not so gentle is when his tail is wagging but that is not his fault of course. Again, I would trust Tubby with anyone and anything, he is the type of dog that would offer a treat to the burglar as long as the burglar gave him some attention and a little pat on the head!
I am more leery of Lucy around children and adults than I am of Tubby. Lucy is getting better but I think her previous owner had kids that taunted her because she can be aggressive around kids and some adults.

I am torn because there are dogs that just snap and do horrible, unthinkable things to people but I just can't fathom someone taking my dog away from me just because of the breed. The violence has to stop somehow but banning them may not be the best way to go about it.
I don't know if there is a good solution to this issue. I do know that people that train them to kill should be jailed for a long time!! I can't stand how people think it is okay to train a dog to attack and kill...it is heartbreaking!!

There are people that leave pets and babies in cars during the summer and let them bake....I have come to the conclusion that sadly there are just way too many human people out there that lack common sense and it is very, very SAD!!