Afraid to post but need to...

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by yakkwak

How does this fit in with known "experts" that say generally that a puppy is well into a very formative period by that age and should get a lot of individual care and behavior training .....

....Do some breeders think that perhaps the Yorkie pup is behind (slow to mature) developmentally in these areas so that they are not "missing" opportunities

This book: The Art of Raising A Puppy by The Monks of New Skete, talks about the important of the human/canine bond at a young age and emphasizes the need of puppies to receive alot of individual care & behavior traing as you mentioned. Different perspective than you many find on this forum. I highly recommend it and the other Monks of New Skete dog books

[dawn27]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Aren't they not supposed to have all the vacs at 8 weeks per most vets, but some do anyways?
I hope someone know knows can comment on that and why...

No they start them between 6-7 weeks of age and receive vacinations up to a year old when they receive their first 3 yr. Rabies.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by dawn27

I believe that it is very possible for a Yorkie puppy to leave its mother at the age of 8 weeks old. If .... They have received all of the appropriate care and vaccinations required and has received a clean Health Check from the veterinarian.

There are however the exceptions. For those puppies who are very tiny. They of course need more time nursing with mamma and additional time to reach a appropriate weight before being released to the new family. I don't believe that any veterinarian would allow a breeder to release a pup who does not meet the criteria of what a Healthy puppy should be. Nor should a responsible breeder.

Well that does not jive with what the mother club for Yorkshire Terriers set out. And just when are you doing BATS on the puppies? The new recommendations are 16wks old. I certainly hope that health check includes Bats.

And many veterinarians are not toy breed experienced and up to date on the latest recommendations for every breed. I know I had to educate my vet on my breed, and she had no clue about them. General experience is no substitute for breed specific experience.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dawn27

No they start them between 6-7 weeks of age and receive vacinations up to a year old when they receive their first 3 yr. Rabies.

If one is administering vaccinations at 6 or 7 weeks of age you are putting the pup in peril, by supressing mother's immunities.

The proper age to begin vaccinations is approximately 9 weeks of age and continue with a 2nd 3 weeks after and follow up with the final at 16 weeks of age.

Study Dr. Dodd's vaccination protocol it is what is being taught and Vet Colleges throughout the country.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by gemy

Well that does not jive with what the mother club for Yorkshire Terriers set out. And just when are you doing BATS on the puppies? The new recommendations are 16wks old. I certainly hope that health check includes Bats.

And many veterinarians are not toy breed experienced and up to date on the latest recommendations for every breed. I know I had to educate my vet on my breed, and she had no clue about them. General experience is no substitute for breed specific experience.

You're absolutely correct Gail. Initial BATS can not be performed until 16 weeks of age and again at 6 months of age.

The only thing a toy pup needs for the first 8 weeks of it's life is it's mother for warmth and nutrition. From 8 to 12 weeks of age is when mother does most of it's teaching.

However, socialization begins from the time a pup is whelped by the breeder, by handling daily, performing temperment tests, etc.

Any reputable breeder knows that although weaning begins at approximately 4 to 6 weeks of age it isn't begun in earnest until 8 weeks of age. As a matter of fact I let my dam's call the shots....and some aren't completely off mom until 10 weeks of age.....

If a breeder is allowing a pup to go home at 8 weeks of age they are not insuring that an easy transition is being made for the pup or the new family.

No shots, pup not really eating 100% on it's own.....it's very well known that when transitioning a pup to a new enviornment that a pup may not eat for 24 hours.....hence hyperglycemia (moving to an new environment can cause this situation too). Oh! the possibility of coccidia may occur also. Yes, a organism that lays dormant in a dam but, can be passed to the pup....stress will bring it to the surface.

By the time my pups go home at 16 weeks of age....they are piddle pad trained, well socialized, have their full compliment of vaccinations (minus their Rabis) Bile Acids and a thorough exam by vet....not just listening to the heart and checking it's ears.

Any breeder placing a pup at 8 weeks of age is not doing their job, or taking on the huge responsibility of breeding and is just in it for the money.

[Breezeaway]

I keep my pups until atleast 12 weeks before they can go, but they do not stay with their mom. When the mom says its time to get away from them , I let her. Those tiny teeth hurt when trying to down her to nurse. Also I have had to separate some puppies at about 9 weeks. The can start picking on one in the litter and they can get pretty vicious if you have 4 gang up on one. They will pick on him so much that he then becomes introverted and shy. Hides behind things to get away from them and then that becomes a habit and it is what he learns from them, he becomes shy and learns to hide to be safe. Not a good habit to learn. Maybe that is the reason some people place them earlier.
It all comes down to the breeder knowing what they are doing and do what is best for the puppies.

[Mardelin]

I've never had a situation as you described. My mom's are with the pups during play times, therefore issuing the proper disciplinary actions and teaching them what is proper play and what is acceptable.

[Breezeaway]

Mine are not confined so mom does as she pleases. I would hate for someone to confine me in a pen and make me breast feed a baby even after it had teeth.

[dawn27]

Originally Posted by TexasKat08

I think we have established that a responsible breeder would not allow a Yorkie puppy to go to its forever home under any circumstances until 12 weeks. And, it's not up to a veterinarian to allow a breeder to release a pup, as you indicate. Breeders who advocate the release of a puppy at 8 weeks are doing so of their own accord, regardless of what a vet might advise; and do so irresponsibly as far as I am concerned.

Are you trying to convince us that it is ok to let a pup go at 8 weeks because you do so? I've seen indications of this in other posts and just want to clarify.

And "No" ....I am not trying to convince you or anyone else of anything. I was not aware that that had been established, I thought that this was an "open" discussion and that those are your views and opinions. Not necessarily mine.


Maybe I did not answer the question right? Although, not fact based by an expert.. it is my opinion!

I do not think that just because a pup goes to its new home before 12 weeks of age makes that pup any less capable of thriving or becoming a happy, healthy well socialized member of the family. I think that there is no better place for a puppy to get the socialization skills, human contact and the training that it so desperately needs than in a loving environment in their own home. At whatever age that be.  Whether it be at the age of 12 weeks or as early as 8 weeks of age ?

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by dawn27

I do not think that just because a pup goes to its new home before 12 weeks of age makes that pup any less capable of thriving or becoming a happy, healthy well socialized member of the family. I think that there is no better place for a puppy to get the socialization skills, human contact and the training that it so desperately needs than in a loving environment in their own home. At whatever age that be.  Whether it be at the age of 12 weeks or as early as 8 weeks of age ?

I don't think anyone is saying that the puppy isn't capable. Just that there are a lot of things taught by the mother dog and littermates that people have a hard time replicating. An owner that is educated and willing to put in the work absolutely CAN have a well socialized dog. But far too often I have seen both on this site and other dogs sites there are issues that could have been avoided if the pup had been properly socialized to start with. A puppy nibbling on your hand is cute. But it quickly becomes a problem as the pup ages and dogs get put down because they are "biters". Let's face it. Most buyers aren't very educated before they bring the dog home. They only start doing their research when there is a problem. It's far easier to prevent a problem than to try and correct it later.

[TexasKat08]

Originally Posted by dawn27

And "No" ....I am not trying to convince you or anyone else of anything. I was not aware that that had been established, I thought that this was an "open" discussion and that those are your views and opinions. Actually, this is the recommendation of the YTCA, not my opinion, but yes I do agree that it is what is right. Not necessarily mine. Clearly.


Maybe I did not answer the question right? Although, not fact based by an expert.. it is my opinion! I would hope that before somebody decides to become a breeder, they might also become an expert in the complexities of doing so.

I do not think that just because a pup goes to its new home before 12 weeks of age makes that pup any less capable of thriving or becoming a happy, healthy well socialized member of the family. I didn't say that and don't disagree. I know that this IS possible; but again, I agree with the recommendation of the YTCA. I think that there is no better place for a puppy to get the socialization skills, human contact and the training that it so desperately needs than in a loving environment in their own home. On this I would have to disagree. At whatever age that be.  Whether it be at the age of 12 weeks or as early as 8 weeks of age ?

Agree to disagree. However, I think you should disclose that you are a breeder that homes puppies at 8 weeks and not just a random person voicing your opinion. IMO, that is an important consideration for the random member seeking advice to determine whether your opinions are based on what is best for the puppy or what is best for the breeder.

[dawn27]

OK sure...

So, let me get this straight...Are you trying to say that just because I am a breeder who places her puppies at 8 weeks makes my advise and opinion less worthy or creditable than a breeder who does not?

Are you a breeder?

[KazzyK810]

[QUOTE=Breezeaway;3468896]Also I have had to separate some puppies at about 9 weeks. The can start picking on one in the litter and they can get pretty vicious if you have 4 gang up on one. They will pick on him so much that he then becomes introverted and shy. Hides behind things to get away from them and then that becomes a habit and it is what he learns from them, he becomes shy and learns to hide to be safe. Not a good habit to learn. Maybe that is the reason some people place them earlier. [QUOTE]

That is EXACTLY how I got my own first yorkie!!! I've not heard anyone else describe the same situation on here. She was from a litter of 4 females. The other 3 pups and the mom all picked on her. She was so skittish & timid. I went to look at the pups to see if there was one I wanted to put a deposit on and ended up leaving with her that same day because of that exact situation. She flourished once I took her home and reveled in the attention of my kids. The breeder called once a week to check on us to make sure we were doing okay. Then at Christmas, when we took her back to see her mom & the sister they had kept, the breeder couldn't believe she was the same pup.

[Rhetts_mama]

From the YTCA website:

What is the best age to buy a yorkie puppy?
by Gloria Robinson

While it is not correct to answer a question with a question, it is necessary to know what your plans are for this puppy. Do you want to have a good show prospect, or do you want a pet that fits into your family’s lifestyle?

If you are seeking a family pet a reputable Yorkshire Terrier Breeder will not release a puppy to a new home before it is twelve (12) weeks old. This ensures the puppy is old enough to have had some of its shots, has been checked by a veterinarian, and a health certificate issued. The puppy’s ears should be erect, and you can generally tell what size the puppy will be at maturity when it is twelve weeks old by doubling the weight. Although not a definite rule it is generally thought that if a twelve week old Yorkie puppy is three pounds it will likely be six pounds at maturity. Also, by twelve weeks the puppy should be outgoing and well socialized so it will easily accept the transition of leaving its mother and siblings.

On the other hand, if you are interested in a show potential puppy the time frame should be much different. You need to start your search well in advance of actually selecting a puppy. Nothing beats doing research, going to local dog shows, reading as much as you can about the breed, and talking to as many show breeders as possible. There is no way to guarantee a definite yorkie show dog before it is nine or ten months old, and its actually uncertain until you get that first winning ribbon many months later. Yorkies go through a tremendous transition from puppy to adulthood in coat condition, stature, personality, and demeanor. But one of the most important goals is gaining the confidence of the breeder because no show breeder is going to release a good show puppy to a novice who cannot fulfill the puppy’s potential. By the time a show potential puppy is nine or ten months old, the personality will be outgoing, the terrier spirit portrayed, and it will be leash trained. The coat will have the correct silky texture, and the color will be coming in clearly. You will be able to tell by the gait if the puppy has good structure, and by then the puppy teeth will be replacing with permanent mature denture so you can tell if the bite is correct. In other words, you can see the real potential in front of you. From then on, its up to you to continue ring training and not let the breeder down.

Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)

[Yorkiedaze]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

You're absolutely correct Gail. Initial BATS can not be performed until 16 weeks of age and again at 6 months of age.

The only thing a toy pup needs for the first 8 weeks of it's life is it's mother for warmth and nutrition. From 8 to 12 weeks of age is when mother does most of it's teaching.

However, socialization begins from the time a pup is whelped by the breeder, by handling daily, performing temperment tests, etc.

Any reputable breeder knows that although weaning begins at approximately 4 to 6 weeks of age it isn't begun in earnest until 8 weeks of age. As a matter of fact I let my dam's call the shots....and some aren't completely off mom until 10 weeks of age.....

If a breeder is allowing a pup to go home at 8 weeks of age they are not insuring that an easy transition is being made for the pup or the new family.

No shots, pup not really eating 100% on it's own.....it's very well known that when transitioning a pup to a new enviornment that a pup may not eat for 24 hours.....hence hyperglycemia (moving to an new environment can cause this situation too). Oh! the possibility of coccidia may occur also. Yes, a organism that lays dormant in a dam but, can be passed to the pup....stress will bring it to the surface.

By the time my pups go home at 16 weeks of age....they are piddle pad trained, well socialized, have their full compliment of vaccinations (minus their Rabis) Bile Acids and a thorough exam by vet....not just listening to the heart and checking it's ears.

Any breeder placing a pup at 8 weeks of age is not doing their job, or taking on the huge responsibility of breeding and is just in it for the money.

WOW!! If I out live my girls and need another in my life, I'll come see you if you have any puppies available!!
I do wish she would listen to what your saying.