Afraid to post but need to...

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by thudd561 http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/ima...s/viewpost.gif
I've never posted either , I like to look around and read the threads . but some of these people are very rude to the people that do post. I would hate to be talked to like that!

Geez I'm usually accused of being the rude one...but I missed where someone else was...I thought just about every comment I read was about supporting the OP in making a decision in their best interest and helping them to be informed...did I miss something specific or is this just a perception thing?
The OP feels informed, supported, and not attacked...I think that's all that really matters actually.

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by EsmeeKimme

I am appreciative of all the posts and such I have gotten here. Only a couple hurt my feelings some but I know they came from a good place. Because of the advice here, he is staying longer than I had originally arranged for, she knows I want copies of all testing that has been done on him and his parents, vet release for him and proof of his first shots and such when I go to get him, of course she knows now he has to weigh at least 2 pounds that day and I know a lot of great advice to have on hand in case anything goes wrong.

I understand everyones passion, heart and wisdom that have gone into the responses so I am learning and paying attention to each of them.

So thank you all. As for home date, it will depend on when Riley is ready and I know he will have more chance of a great start cause of this thread and the advice given here. I can't walk away from him, I won't even apologize for that weakness. I would frankly rather deal with the loss of respect that I will get from a few you than undo my promise to him. It has been a couple weeks since I met him I think and yet I can still remember the way he felt in my hands and the look on his face. I was already bonded and I can't help that now.

That being said IF I ever consider myself able to have another yorkie, I will be going to a YT recommended breeder and make sure he/she is 12 wks and everything else I have learned here will be followed to the letter.

Sounds like you've got it all covered sweetie. Good luck and I absolutely cannot wait to see pictures of little Riley! We'll be counting down those days with you and get all excited for you. We will be here for you when you need us to both celebrate and pray for things, whatever your needs may be. Good luck and have lots and lots of pictures ready.

[ErinsWhitney]

Originally Posted by TexasKat08

That's really beautiful, Kim. I think it might be easy to sit behind a keyboard and offer advice about walking away because the circumstances aren't ideal. But perhaps some in our midst have forgotten that emotions are involved and you have already committed to this little boy. He is a lucky Yorkie baby to have you as his mommy. I am happy to hear that the breeder has been willing to compromise on her normal routine in order to start Riley off on the right foot in his new home. I can't wait to see your "1st day home" photos!

To the OP, I'm in your exact shoes, except my breeder is not so willing to work with me. I will be bringing my little girl home just shy of 9 weeks. Like you, I did more than just put a deposit on her...I fell in love with her and I can't imagine walking away from her and leaving her to go to another home where God forbid, she might not be loved as much as I already love her. I dream about her, and she's all I think about! I KNOW what kind of life she has waiting for her now, regardless of how much more work I may have to put into her as a result of getting her too soon. I am eternally grateful for this site and the wealth of information that everyone so generously puts on it. I can't wait to see pictures of little Riley, and I look forward to his stories!

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by ErinsWhitney

To the OP, I'm in your exact shoes, except my breeder is not so willing to work with me. I will be bringing my little girl home just shy of 9 weeks. Like you, I did more than just put a deposit on her...I fell in love with her and I can't imagine walking away from her and leaving her to go to another home where God forbid, she might not be loved as much as I already love her. I dream about her, and she's all I think about! I KNOW what kind of life she has waiting for her now, regardless of how much more work I may have to put into her as a result of getting her too soon. I am eternally grateful for this site and the wealth of information that everyone so generously puts on it. I can't wait to see pictures of little Riley, and I look forward to his stories!

That's EXACTLY how I felt when I was getting Sadie. I hadn't even seen her yet but her picture and picking her out from a picture of a litter made me fall in love with her. I 100% understand your hearts.

As for the lesson part of my posts because there is always something to learn about every situation, I really feel that in the future for both me and anyone new just getting their first puppy, that people need to check out their breeder thouroughly before ever taking a leap and meeting that puppy. Nearly anyone who sees a puppy for the first time will fall in love with it and feel like they've already lost themselves in love with those puppy eyes...esp a yorkie's eyes. We just have to be very careful that we don't allow ourselves to take that leap and meet the puppy. Who doesn't lvoe pups and want them rescued from a bad breeder and brought home to love and live with us? Everyone feels like that and no one has the strength to walk away from them. That's why I really suggest to not go meet a puppy until the breeder has 100% checked out as a reputable breeder. I hope we can all learn that lesson and some of us sure learned it the hard way. Once you know a yorkie's love it's a lot more easy to understand and to see why putting money in a breeder's hands that is only breeding for money is not something to do. But once you've fallen for a baby no one is going to blame you or hate you for taking them home. Not ideal, but totally understandable.

And OP i sure hope you know I don't hold anything at all against you because I did the same thing and know how you feel.

[ErinsWhitney]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

That's EXACTLY how I felt when I was getting Sadie. I hadn't even seen her yet but her picture and picking her out from a picture of a litter made me fall in love with her. I 100% understand your hearts.

As for the lesson part of my posts because there is always something to learn about every situation, I really feel that in the future for both me and anyone new just getting their first puppy, that people need to check out their breeder thouroughly before ever taking a leap and meeting that puppy. Nearly anyone who sees a puppy for the first time will fall in love with it and feel like they've already lost themselves in love with those puppy eyes...esp a yorkie's eyes. We just have to be very careful that we don't allow ourselves to take that leap and meet the puppy. Who doesn't lvoe pups and want them rescued from a bad breeder and brought home to love and live with us? Everyone feels like that and no one has the strength to walk away from them. That's why I really suggest to not go meet a puppy until the breeder has 100% checked out as a reputable breeder. I hope we can all learn that lesson and some of us sure learned it the hard way. Once you know a yorkie's love it's a lot more easy to understand and to see why putting money in a breeder's hands that is only breeding for money is not something to do. But once you've fallen for a baby no one is going to blame you or hate you for taking them home. Not ideal, but totally understandable.

And OP i sure hope you know I don't hold anything at all against you because I did the same thing and know how you feel.

That's exactly what I feel like I'm doing. I didn't research my breeder before I picked my puppy because, even with all of the reading I did beforehand, I didn't know any better. Knowing that if they don't sell, they go to a local pet store just breaks my heart. (I did NOT know this before I put my deposit down.) How could I turn my back on her knowing that that is a possiblity if I do? It's a totally emotional decision, but I can't imagine an alternative. I know better now, and if I had it to do over again I would definitely not jump into it so blindly and next time (because regardless of what DH thinks, there will be a next time ) it will be a much longer process.

I'm thankful I know better now, and I'm thankful that I have a great place to go to for advice. It makes me feel like "I can do this!"

[yakkwak]

I'm glad I ran across this thread. It brings up a question I've been mulling over. It sounds like the overwhelming majority are saying that it is unsafe to bring home a puppy before 10-12 weeks for physiological reasons, particularly for the smaller pups. Let's assume (and I am) that this is correct. How does this fit in with known "experts" that say generally that a puppy is well into a very formative period by that age and should get a lot of individual care and behavior training (not necessarily though ready for rugged potty training physiologically). If it is also true that very FEW breeders are able to give that depth of time (imagine just one large litter) and attention, and that it is also true that the breeder cannot substitute for the owner (I hate that word, but am using for lack of a better one) when it comes to bonding and introducing the structure of the new home, then can one logically assume that toy breeds like the Yorkies are, by nature, at a disadvantage when it comes to maximizing the socializing of a pup (this doesn't mean no socializing!)? In other words, how much importance do you place on the psychological & social health during this critical period? Inquiring minds want to know - I guess because of my behavior training background, it is important for me to hear opinions about this. Do some breeders think that perhaps the Yorkie pup is behind (slow to mature) developmentally in these areas so that they are not "missing" opportunities in critical periods by staying with the breeder for up to 12-14 weeks?
I dealt with something similar when I purchased my macaw baby. Only because of my past experience in breeding parrots, was I allowed to take home my macaw before he was fully weaned. This gave me the advantage of beginning socializing/behavior training/bonding at a very critical, early developmental stage while not jeopardizing his health.
Whatcha think???? Am truly curious to hear sound opinions!! I dont' see much emphasis in the posts I've read about these factors. Thanks!
PS: Some of the experts I was referring to include Ian Dunbar & Nicholas Dodman.

[concretegurl]

I think breed specific experts are more important than well known "dog" experts and behaviorists are more knowledgeable on this topic than trainers...

Originally Posted by yakkwak

I'm glad I ran across this thread. It brings up a question I've been mulling over. It sounds like the overwhelming majority are saying that it is unsafe to bring home a puppy before 10-12 weeks for physiological reasons, particularly for the smaller pups. Let's assume (and I am) that this is correct. How does this fit in with known "experts" that say generally that a puppy is well into a very formative period by that age and should get a lot of individual care and behavior training (not necessarily though ready for rugged potty training physiologically). If it is also true that very FEW breeders are able to give that depth of time (imagine just one large litter) and attention, and that it is also true that the breeder cannot substitute for the owner (I hate that word, but am using for lack of a better one) when it comes to bonding and introducing the structure of the new home, then can one logically assume that toy breeds like the Yorkies are, by nature, at a disadvantage when it comes to maximizing the socializing of a pup (this doesn't mean no socializing!)? In other words, how much importance do you place on the psychological & social health during this critical period? Inquiring minds want to know - I guess because of my behavior training background, it is important for me to hear opinions about this. Do some breeders think that perhaps the Yorkie pup is behind (slow to mature) developmentally in these areas so that they are not "missing" opportunities in critical periods by staying with the breeder for up to 12-14 weeks?
I dealt with something similar when I purchased my macaw baby. Only because of my past experience in breeding parrots, was I allowed to take home my macaw before he was fully weaned. This gave me the advantage of beginning socializing/behavior training/bonding at a very critical, early developmental stage while not jeopardizing his health.
Whatcha think???? Am truly curious to hear sound opinions!! I dont' see much emphasis in the posts I've read about these factors. Thanks!
PS: Some of the experts I was referring to include Ian Dunbar & Nicholas Dodman.

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by yakkwak

I'm glad I ran across this thread. It brings up a question I've been mulling over. It sounds like the overwhelming majority are saying that it is unsafe to bring home a puppy before 10-12 weeks for physiological reasons, particularly for the smaller pups. Let's assume (and I am) that this is correct. How does this fit in with known "experts" that say generally that a puppy is well into a very formative period by that age and should get a lot of individual care and behavior training (not necessarily though ready for rugged potty training physiologically). If it is also true that very FEW breeders are able to give that depth of time (imagine just one large litter) and attention, and that it is also true that the breeder cannot substitute for the owner (I hate that word, but am using for lack of a better one) when it comes to bonding and introducing the structure of the new home, then can one logically assume that toy breeds like the Yorkies are, by nature, at a disadvantage when it comes to maximizing the socializing of a pup (this doesn't mean no socializing!)? In other words, how much importance do you place on the psychological & social health during this critical period? Inquiring minds want to know - I guess because of my behavior training background, it is important for me to hear opinions about this. Do some breeders think that perhaps the Yorkie pup is behind (slow to mature) developmentally in these areas so that they are not "missing" opportunities in critical periods by staying with the breeder for up to 12-14 weeks?
I dealt with something similar when I purchased my macaw baby. Only because of my past experience in breeding parrots, was I allowed to take home my macaw before he was fully weaned. This gave me the advantage of beginning socializing/behavior training/bonding at a very critical, early developmental stage while not jeopardizing his health.
Whatcha think???? Am truly curious to hear sound opinions!! I dont' see much emphasis in the posts I've read about these factors. Thanks!
PS: Some of the experts I was referring to include Ian Dunbar & Nicholas Dodman.

A great breeder IS socializing the dogs the entire time they have them. If a breeder doesn't have time for their litter they shouldn't be breeding them. If a breeder wants to push out a puppy at that young of an age then they are only in it for the money and not for the actual development of the dog. Yorkies are tiny. They barely weight a couple pounds when they are 10-12 weeks old. They are barely weened at all. And it's crucial in their developmental life to be with their mom and littermates to learn things like bite inhibition (aka when you bite me OUCH that hurts me) and also how to just be a dog. Yes bonding to their owner is a good thing, but most great breeders get the new owner involved in the life of the puppy from the time they are born. Good breeders have the owner on a waiting list and the owner is able to be around the puppy plenty of times before it goes home and if they are unable to do so, the breeder themselves are socializing and home raising the pups to be around and be loved by people. Some breeders even start the potty training process for new parents. It really just depends on whether the person is breeding for the love of the breed and takes that time to really do their part and their job or if they are greedy people pushing pups out early just to make a buck and clear their kennels for more and more puppies.

http://www.yorkiepassion.com/puppystages.htm

[dawn27]

I believe that it is very possible for a Yorkie puppy to leave its mother at the age of 8 weeks old. If .... They have received all of the appropriate care and vaccinations required and has received a clean Health Check from the veterinarian.

There are however the exceptions. For those puppies who are very tiny. They of course need more time nursing with mamma and additional time to reach a appropriate weight before being released to the new family. I don't believe that any veterinarian would allow a breeder to release a pup who does not meet the criteria of what a Healthy puppy should be. Nor should a responsible breeder.

[concretegurl]

Aren't they not supposed to have all the vacs at 8 weeks per most vets, but some do anyways?
I hope someone know knows can comment on that and why...

Originally Posted by dawn27

I believe that it is very possible for a Yorkie puppy to leave its mother at the age of 8 weeks old. If .... They have received all of the appropriate care and vaccinations required and has received a clean Health Check from the veterinarian.

There are however the exceptions. For those puppies who are very tiny. They of course need more time nursing with mamma and additional time to reach a appropriate weight before being released to the new family. I don't believe that any veterinarian would allow a breeder to release a pup who does not meet the criteria of what a Healthy puppy should be. Nor should a responsible breeder.

[yakkwak]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I think breed specific experts are more important than well known "dog" experts and behaviorists are more knowledgeable on this topic than trainers...

Guess from your response that despite my efforts, I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't questioning IF that was true, but rather W H Y that was true. I was hoping to get some feedback on that. I hope that I'm not inferring correctly from your indirect response that we are NOT supposed to question WHY? Hope I'm not correct in inferring that from your indirect response. To ask why is always a good thing - otherwise we are just lemmings. Knowledge is always good!!!!!! Never be afraid to ask WHY. Anyway, I think all experts have their knowledge to contribute well to any one topic. That last sentence is my biased, but firm opinion.

[yakkwak]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

A great breeder IS socializing the dogs the entire time they have them. If a breeder doesn't have time for their litter they shouldn't be breeding them. If a breeder wants to push out a puppy at that young of an age then they are only in it for the money and not for the actual development of the dog. Yorkies are tiny. They barely weight a couple pounds when they are 10-12 weeks old. They are barely weened at all. And it's crucial in their developmental life to be with their mom and littermates to learn things like bite inhibition (aka when you bite me OUCH that hurts me) and also how to just be a dog. Yes bonding to their owner is a good thing, but most great breeders get the new owner involved in the life of the puppy from the time they are born. Good breeders have the owner on a waiting list and the owner is able to be around the puppy plenty of times before it goes home and if they are unable to do so, the breeder themselves are socializing and home raising the pups to be around and be loved by people. Some breeders even start the potty training process for new parents. It really just depends on whether the person is breeding for the love of the breed and takes that time to really do their part and their job or if they are greedy people pushing pups out early just to make a buck and clear their kennels for more and more puppies.

Yorkshire Terrier, understanding yorkie puppy vital growth stages how to be a puppy

That makes sense to me, Thanks!!!! Ask, and ye shall receive

It is always ok to ask WHY

Blessings!

[concretegurl]

Nope I got what you said...what you meant maybe not...I though you meant why do they want to keep them until 12 weeks.

I just looked up your references and also the "standard" which is generalized and thus my response...hope some of the breeders/show people here will post as to why 12 weeks is their minimum-it mainly has to do from what I've read with socialization fro the mother and some even go beyond 12 weeks citing 14 weeks. Some large breed experts feel that keeping those specific breeds with mom and pack beyond 10 weeks can cause issues...WHY I don't' know, I'd have to look into what they say more-I just was saying each breed is different and I'd trust an authority in that breed far more than a "rule of thumb"

I've furthermore talk to several many people (actually to do with schnauzers not Yorkies but nevertheless breed specific experts) they feel a responsible breeder not only keeps pups beyond 8 weeks, but they start potty training, behavioral training and also site the importance of a pup being old enough to start this training with their mother and as a pack...they also do "socialization" to people and other types of animals, exposures etc but are also aware of immunization times and when it is in fact safest and how to best handle the socialization...

I hope that clarifies my response for you and that someone who knows more than I would be able to tell you directly from their first hand many years of experience...

Originally Posted by yakkwak

Guess from your response that despite my efforts, I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't questioning IF that was true, but rather W H Y that was true. I was hoping to get some feedback on that. I hope that I'm not inferring correctly from your indirect response that we are NOT supposed to question WHY? Hope I'm not correct in inferring that from your indirect response. To ask why is always a good thing - otherwise we are just lemmings. Knowledge is always good!!!!!! Never be afraid to ask WHY. Anyway, I think all experts have their knowledge to contribute well to any one topic. That last sentence is my biased, but firm opinion.

[tarczely]

Well me too! I had not even found this forum till I had Axel at 8 weeks he was 2.0 lbs then at 9 weeks he was 2lbs 4 oz and grew up just fine! I would do it any other way! not they I would have two of them just cause, we take him everywhere..don't think I could squeeze two in my bag. He is a happy health spoiled roten 18 months now and little less then 6lbs he is the best dog I have ever owned, nothing like yorkie kisses to wake me up! He has to stay during the day by himself in the laudry room while I work for the school, but I'm off alot and on the weekends he is with us, except if we go out to dinner! He had a little usual biting issue at about 16 weeks but he learned..I would say he is so loving and I think getting him young, he hates when I hand him off for someone to hold him, he just looks at me like are you going to let them hold me! He is socialized, loves kids other dogs...just take him with you when you can after all his shots of course! Good luck pm me if I can help and yes I took all the percautions the hypoglycimic etc. ps he is pee pad trained and I bought the hospital pad on ebay have 8 of them I just wash and replace daily.

[TexasKat08]

Originally Posted by dawn27

I don't believe that any veterinarian would allow a breeder to release a pup who does not meet the criteria of what a Healthy puppy should be. Nor should a responsible breeder.

I think we have established that a responsible breeder would not allow a Yorkie puppy to go to its forever home under any circumstances until 12 weeks. And, it's not up to a veterinarian to allow a breeder to release a pup, as you indicate. Breeders who advocate the release of a puppy at 8 weeks are doing so of their own accord, regardless of what a vet might advise; and do so irresponsibly as far as I am concerned.

Are you trying to convince us that it is ok to let a pup go at 8 weeks because you do so? I've seen indications of this in other posts and just want to clarify.