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Old 12-17-2010, 02:55 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivy1 View Post
Mom deffinately looks like a blue and tan yorkie. No worries! And she is not unnecisserally badly bred either! I wish folks would not jump to conclusions without knowing all the facts. WElcome to YT!
That is why she reposted. We have seen all kinds of posts from all kinds of people trying to pass a pure breed that sell for "Big Bucks". People looking for a Yorkie will find all the correct info on YT and members like FlDebra will help you. After you have been hear awhile you will understand.

Welcome to YT take your time and read, read, read, everything you need to know about Yorkies is on this site!
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Old 12-17-2010, 03:04 AM   #32
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I am new here and was simply inquiring because I want to learn about the different colors of Yorkies and if the mommy was normally colored...I was JUST curious. I think that I will just lurk from now on, as I seemed to have stirred up a big mess. Sorry!

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.....If you are having to take an internet pole of what this dog may be, then maybe you are already not trusting what the breeder is telling you?
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Old 12-17-2010, 09:22 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by EmmaPeel View Post
I am new here and was simply inquiring because I want to learn about the different colors of Yorkies and if the mommy was normally colored...I was JUST curious. I think that I will just lurk from now on, as I seemed to have stirred up a big mess. Sorry!
Oh no you haven't at all...read some of the things I've talk about here...talk about realizing you ruffled feathers, you're all good.
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:12 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by LilPuppyLove View Post
Just curious here... Dont "ethical" breeders sometimes have surprise colored yorkies, like parti, or gold, or chocolate, and dont they typically cull (kill) them? I mean, its part of the Yorkies genetic make up from when their ancestors were originally bred, so it stands to reason that they will pop up every now and again, even for breeders that breed to standard. Right? I am not trying to ruffle feathers here, I am just wondering.
Ethical breeders do sometimes have a surprise in coloring due to recessive genes. But while in the past, culling may have meant killing the dog, today's ethical breeder will place those dogs in to pet only homes. The best will choose not to breed that pair again because they know they carry the fault.
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:03 AM   #35
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Emma -- pls do not feel bad -- you did not start anything, many threads take a turn or two along the way. You aren't responsible for all that winds up being posted. The debate on off-color yorkies in ongoing. They are not recognized, and despite someone saying there was rumor into allowing them to show -- I doubt it, as the AKC and YTCA have recently made very clear the off colors are instant disqualifiers. If they were considering a change, I do not think they would have just come out and clarified the disqualification.

I stayed off line yesterday and really did not want to post in a contentious thread today but since my name keeps getting thrown around .... I guess I will respond.

I do not see how anyone would question the existance of chocolate or gold yorkies (And I have never seen anyone question it so I don't understand the comment made earlier)-- they are a fact of life. No good breeder wants to see the mutation show up in their line, but they do occasionally -- very occasionally if truly by accident tho. The ones advertising they produce them are actually breeding for the fault. Here is an article about some of the genetics involved in blue, chocolate, golden, red yorkies. Top Genetics Chocolate Yorkies Red Golden or Blue Born

As for parti's -- I have seen more bonafie references showing the impossibility of white naturally occuring in modern yorkies than I have seen supporting it. I have read plenty on both sides. Surprisingly some of the articles showing conflicting information look authentic. Without a degree in canine genetics, I don't think you can know for sure, only use your best logic with the information presented. After carefuly perusal, I chose to believe there is no white in the authentic Yorkshire Terrier lines. You have to follow the references that give the true genetic information/background/history. I believe there are parti breeders that truly believe their dog is 100% yorkie. But I also believe somewhere back in their background, another breed entered the picture. There are so many lines that have NEVER (in over a hundred years) produced a parti that I cannot believe it is a natural occurance.

We all know there are unethical breeders that have used papers to register dogs that did not have the parents listed. Mills and BYB with so many dogs often have litters sired by more than one dog. Accidents happen. I don't think I would fully trust a breeder with more than one breed at a time unless I KNEW them and the safeguards they had in place. So in the yorkshire terrier gene pool, there are accidents, genes of white-coated breeds that may come out if you have lines that were not well-monitored along the way. Only recently was any DNA testing required or even available. So, for anyone to think the sudden emergence of these "parti dogs" is anything other than the results of old mistakes (and purposeful cross-breeding) is ludicrous IMO. If they occur naturally, they would occur in the quality lines as well as the hobby-breeder lines and they do not.

Another reason I do not like the idea of parti's is that they sometimes throw "yorkie-looking puppies" -- those unaware of the history, could very well think they had a full-blooded yorkie and are often given papers to say so. Then that person decides to breed, and wonders where those puppies with so much white on them came from! Or maybe they too think they just had one of those miracle "naturally-occuring" partis.

I think there are more breeders selling partis at this time that are purposefully "making their own partis" than there are the honest ones who only breed from the parti's they have bought that way. You can see it in the "look" they are selling. Some are losing the yorkie features entirely. I recently looked at one site selling yorkies, maltese and parti's -- the partis no longer had a yorkie look at all! Some look more yorkie except for color, so they are probably pure in the last several generations. Still, as long as the YTCA and AKC refuse to accept them, I don't want anything to do with them -- as beautiful as I might think they look, it is not the yorkie look. I think a maltese is beautiful too, but not a yorkie. I have seen chocolate yorkies that were so adorable I wanted to melt right there. But.... they are a mutation and not to be bred. If an ethical breeder had one accidently in her litter, I might be willing to take one as a pet, but never if it was purposefully bred from mutated parents.

I think asking if "ethical breeders" kill off the off-color yorkie pups in their litters is trying to stir the pot/start trouble, etc. There is no way an ethical breeder is going to kill any puppy because of a color fault!! Maybe a hundred years ago when dogs were thought of as no more than livestock but even then, I dare say the ones doing something like that would not be thought of as ethical. What the ethical breeders will do, is not make the same paired mating if they wind up with an off-color pup to ensure it never happens again. Most will never breed either of the dogs involved again, some will just make sure not to make the same pairing.

Some of what you read is opinion, some is verifiable fact. If these issues are important to you -- read a lot on the subject. There has been a proliferation of online writing about the validity of parti's but most of it is just repeating the same thing another breeder wrote. So, don't confuse the quantity of information with the quality of information available. Read the actual genetic information, the science, the history of the yorkshire terrier, the AKC and YTCA sites -- find sites that give bonafide information with references duly noted. USE LOGIC. I also make it a habit not to take any information from those financially profiting from the sale of the off-color pups. They have too much to gain to "authenticate" their puppies any way they can.
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Last edited by FlDebra; 12-18-2010 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:32 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by FlDebra View Post
The female pictures might be all yorkie -- too hard to tell, but she is obviously not to standard and as such, should not be used for breeding. She should be someone's beloved pet and no more.

I know it is easy to like all the colors and all the cute puppies, but pls do not contribute to an unscrupulous or poor quality breeder.



Quote:
Originally Posted by LilPuppyLove View Post
Just curious here... Dont "ethical" breeders sometimes have surprise colored yorkies, like parti, or gold, or chocolate, and dont they typically cull (kill) them?
Hard to say. I'm sure it's one of those things they try to keep quiet a lot
of times, and I've seen people post on here before stating that often used to be the case. But who really knows how much truth there is to it and how much is just to try to prove their 'point.' I will say that any breeder who would do such is not what I would consider "ethical." Place the dog as a pet and reexamine your pedigrees, but not kill it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivy1 View Post
And she is not unnecisserally badly bred either! I wish folks would not jump to conclusions without knowing all the facts.
Um, yes, when a dog is far from the standard and the owner doesn't even know if the dog is standard, parti or a Yorkie at all....than that is EXACTLY what that means. Well bred dogs meet the standard, badly bred ones don't. You don't always have to 'know all the facts' to make that call when you can look at a dog and see that it is a far cry from the standard and the person asking suspects it might be a 'mutt.'

Last edited by BamaFan121s; 12-18-2010 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 12-18-2010, 01:29 PM   #37
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1.Everything Debra said is pretty darn factual even though she says her opinion is in there...except I believe in Parti's white is from a recessive gene from crossing-in evolution but not recent, but ABSOLUTELY so many "Parti's" are mear recent crossing being passed off-even when papered-for example I've seen this in a it's not hard to take a (f2)75%Yorkie/Malt25% sire and mix with a Yorkie mom and then claim a Yorkie dad passing them as AKC Partis....it's frusterating and defames the genuine rarity of Parti's in natural occurrence(which is no where near the appearance of modern Parti's). Parti's are a whole can of genetic worms the only real proof is when we get a breeder who breeds ethically for standard and they after 10s of generations find they have a litter or several Parti pups born...they'll see it for themselves...
2.Debra wasn't (I don't believe) commenting the dam was a bad breeding result-non-standards can happen but then showing that she was being bred considering her off standard-well that is bad breeding sorry Ivy1.
3. Culling of the herd-wow crazy this went there, there is a reason modern breeders "pet out" many dogs, ethical would imply ethics, and you have to consider modern standards (and laws etc)...having said that what does history tell us about our humanity...it's an evolutionary process...I'm not going to have the rose colored glasses on when studying history, even those historically considered ethical well I believe the usage of the term now fits the definition, just not historically.
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