Differences between Biewer and Parti Yorkies?

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

I think that's a great idea, Sue. I always appreciate your educational posts in these heated threads. You keep your cool and make a compelling argument for partis with pictures and history to back up your statements.

As I said before, I think those that defend parti's with wild accusations and conspiracy theories hurt the cause more than help it.

I would love to know who you are talking about because as far as I am concerned it has only been the Yorkie Standard people doing this. No proof on anything.

What is amazing to me is that people will not take the time to go to website to educate themselves on these issues..but will try and debate them. How can anyone who stands for AKC pedigree's ignore these dogs. If you ignore these pedigree's then you have to ignore all of your Yorkie pedigree's.

[bjh]

I had no idea the YTCA had that on their website. I can see why parti breeders would be upset. Any yorkie can have health problems if not bred and cared for properly. Even when breeding champion to champion problems can occur.

[yorkiegirl2]

If the post (sticky ) is what’s the difference between the Parti and the Biewer.
The YTCA should not be added as a link.
This is comparing tri colored dogs NOT tri colors vs. standard color.
The Parti and Biewers sites have more then enough information if one wants to go look to see what the YTCA stance is (which we all know is to discredit the parti colors).
YTCA should have it own sticky for those wanting to learn about the standard color.
Heaven knows YTCA get enough plugging from others anytime a post go up when someone is looking for a dog.
I do believe that when one refers a person to a YTCA members they should also include the fact that just because one belongs to the YTCA does not mean that all members of that club are ethical or reputable.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

This is what is posted on the YTCA website:
Parti-Color Yorkshire Terriers?
Do not be fooled into buying one of these dogs. Now that Designer Dogs are the rage, the “new” Parti-Color Yorkie is certain to draw attention. While we have had problems in the past with “rare gold” Yorkshire Terriers being advertised, the parti-color is a new one! While some breeds have an occasional mismark and some breeds do have a gene for a white dog, we do not. Had there been a problem with white markings, piebald dogs, or white dogs, it would have been addressed in our Standard. Due to unscrupulous breeders advertising parti-colored Yorkshire Terriers at premium prices, our members voted unanimously at our annual meeting to add a disqualification for these and other off colored dogs.
The AKC Breed Standard and YTCA Code of Ethics do not recognize any other color dogs than noted above. This includes all gold, born blue, liver also known as red or chocolate), and parti-colors. One of the reasons for avoiding breeding "off-colored" Yorkies is because it could be a genetic defect
that may affect the dog's health. Some health problems can include, but aren't limited to, severe skin problems, allergies, total hair loss and in some cases long-term illness and/or death.
******
So then after reading the above then it would be alright for Parti/Biewer Breeders to start saying YTCA members are liars and do not care about their dogs because they repeatedly bred them knowing LS was in the lines and didn't care because winning in the show ring is/was everything? How about dogs repeatedly bred with LP. Many of these top show breeders de-bark their dogs, many of these show breeders dogs never touch grass/ground until their show days are over. Or that some of the top dogs have been sold for over $10,000? Show me the proof where the colors of the dog (except for the blue born) could kill a dog...This is wrong and is just plain scare tactics. Designer Dogs???? These dogs had pedigree's from the Kennel Club of the UK.
Where is the education? Where is the possibilities...even they are putting down what Joan Gordon has said about the Parti's. She had Parti's in her lines. How dare they say these are all unscrupulous breeders when breeders have tried to do what is right with the Parti's and get them into the show ring and geez guess who won't allow them. I would love to know what the YTCA thought of Raymond Antonucci (Parquin lines) because he didn't have a problem walking into a show ring with his Parti Yorkies. If he was so disreputable why did YTCA breeders seek out his lines and used him to show their show dogs?
And frankly the only breeder/club/website that has provided proof of any kind is THE PARTI YORKSHIRE TERRIER CLUB - Home. She bought and paid for studbooks, she bought and paid for old books and numerous other things and has posted it on the website...I see no proof on the YTCA website what so ever but I see people dictating and trying to scare people without any proof....just opinions....nothing more.
A final thought:
Do you really think Nelson Mandela** wants to create a website celebrating his freedom and liberation and release. Should he thank those who always pushed for his freedom and rights? Or thank those who forever wanted to keep him suppressed, hidden, erased?

** South African anti-apartheid activist. The South African courts convicted him on charges of sabotage, as well as other alleged crimes committed while he led the movement against apartheid. Mandela served 27 years in prison; Mandela has received more than 250 awards over four decades, most notably the 1993 Nobel Peace Prize. He was the first South African president to be elected in a fully representative democratic election

I wonder if they included the part about health problems because of the blue borns and the health problems they can have. Anyway I can see why Parti breeders would be upset by those statements

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by bjh

I had no idea the YTCA had that on their website. I can see why parti breeders would be upset. Any yorkie can have health problems if not bred and cared for properly. Even when breeding champion to champion problems can occur.

I'm surprised you didn't know it was on their website, but that's exactly why I want the link posted. People aren't aware of the mother clubs beliefs on this. This is about those breeders who claim a fault is a plus, and charge more for it. I would have no problems with Parti breeders who charged pet prices for their dogs, however by charging more, it shows me they are breeding for profit.

Also since all the other links contain their version of the history of the Yorkshire terrier, the leading experts on the breed should be included. Whether you like it or not, the YTCA is the leading authority on the Yorkshire terrier.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by chachi

I wonder if they included the part about health problems because of the blue borns and the health problems they can have. Anyway I can see why Parti breeders would be upset by those statements

I agree the blue borns could be a problem (I don't know for a fact..only what I have read here) but to roll the other colors into that statement is just scare tactics and there is no proof. I do not think a Parent Club should be doing this and they should be more professional. I do understand why some people fully support the standard but I believe most of them have not done any research nor do they want to. Reading some of those books from the turn of the century are amazing and we are so lucky to have this information there to learn from.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

And frankly the only breeder/club/website that has provided proof of any kind is THE PARTI YORKSHIRE TERRIER CLUB - Home. She bought and paid for studbooks, she bought and paid for old books and numerous other things and has posted it on the website...I see no proof on the YTCA website what so ever but I see people dictating and trying to scare people without any proof....just opinions....nothing more.

Maybe it was an oversite but I do have to disagree with your statement "that the only breeder/club/website that has provided proof of any kind is the Parti Yorkshire Terrier Club." The Colorful Yorkshire Terrier Club was started in August 2008, solely for the purpose of educating people about color genetics in the Yorkshire Terriers and as a safe and friendly place for colorful yorkie breeders to come together. I've tried to acknowledge the Parti Yorkshire terrier club in my postings and would appreciate it if you'd reciprocate the courtesy towards our club too, since we're both fighting for the Parti and other off colored yorkies rights in the Yorkshire Terrier world

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm surprised you didn't know it was on their website, but that's exactly why I want the link posted. People aren't aware of the mother clubs beliefs on this. This is about those breeders who claim a fault is a plus, and charge more for it. I would have no problems with Parti breeders who charged pet prices for their dogs, however by charging more, it shows me they are breeding for profit.

Also since all the other links contain their version of the history of the Yorkshire terrier, the leading experts on the breed should be included. Whether you like it or not, the YTCA is the leading authority on the Yorkshire terrier.

Beliefs based on what? Fear, Scare, lies....

The only leading authority on the Yorkshire Terrier that I have seen is Joan Gordon...she is the one who did the research...it is her history that is posted on the YTCA website and how old is some of it....and now thanks to the internet people have the ability to see books and studbooks. Some of the history needs to be rewritten...just like a lot of our history books that are not telling the truth. Some of her history that is in her book has been totally ignored.

Wow, so a show breeder that sells her dogs for $10,000 is only breeding for profit?

You cannot generalize these statements..there are good Parti/Biewer/Yorkie breeders and there are poor Parti/Biewer/Yorkie breeders. Many are into making a profit and many want to write off their motorhome through their breeding programs to go to dog shows. Nothing is black & white. Some do care and work hard for their dogs.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by bjh

I had no idea the YTCA had that on their website. I can see why parti breeders would be upset. Any yorkie can have health problems if not bred and cared for properly. Even when breeding champion to champion problems can occur.

I've complained about that YTCA article in several YT threads. It wouldn't be so bad if their article was a little more truthful (less vague), maybe they could indicate that the health symptoms they listed were normally seen in blue born yorkies ... and of course, I'm not too fond of being called unscrupulous either.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Maybe it was an oversite but I do have to disagree with your statement "that the only breeder/club/website that has provided proof of any kind is the Parti Yorkshire Terrier Club." The Colorful Yorkshire Terrier Club was started in August 2008, solely for the purpose of educating people about color genetics in the Yorkshire Terriers and as a safe and friendly place for colorful yorkie breeders to come together. I've tried to acknowledge the Parti Yorkshire terrier club in my postings and would appreciate it if you'd reciprocate the courtesy towards our club too, since we're both fighting for the Parti and other off colored yorkies rights in the Yorkshire Terrier world

For the record I do not belong to a Parti club and I stand by my statement for the simple reason Debbie has posted the actual books (that you posted the other day) along with the studbooks..She has also posted the pedigree's. I should not have said "proof of any kind" as that was not true and I apologize. I am not someone who is just going to believe what is written on a website..I want to look at these books...I want to look at the pedigree's and I want to look at studbooks. My interest is in the Biewers/Parti's and not the other colors as I have not done any research nor have I seen any that documents some of these other colors.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

Beliefs based on what? Fear, Scare, lies....

The only leading authority on the Yorkshire Terrier that I have seen is Joan Gordon...she is the one who did the research...it is her history that is posted on the YTCA website and how old is some of it....and now thanks to the internet people have the ability to see books and studbooks. Some of the history needs to be rewritten...just like a lot of our history books that are not telling the truth. Some of her history that is in her book has been totally ignored.

Wow, so a show breeder that sells her dogs for $10,000 is only breeding for profit?

You cannot generalize these statements..there are good Parti/Biewer/Yorkie breeders and there are poor Parti/Biewer/Yorkie breeders. Many are into making a profit and many want to write off their motorhome through their breeding programs to go to dog shows. Nothing is black & white. Some do care and work hard for their dogs.

Some may care, but since they don't have the cost of shows, why the big markup? Just because they can? They are breeding a fault and marketing is as an asset. I see this as unethical. Also, so many sell with full breeding rights, as if every parti should be breed, and every pet owner should be a breeder. If any other breeder did this wouldn't you be upset? Organizations such as the HSUS and ASPCA both advocate adoption first, but say if that isn't possible we should only support breeders who are breeding to their breed's standard.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Some may care, but since they don't have the cost of shows, why the big markup? Just because they can? They are breeding a fault and marketing is as an asset. I see this as unethical.

That is true--it happens quite a bit. It happens with standard Yorkies too. That, the huge mark up for profit 'because you can,' I do NOT agree with. That's one major gripe I have with Yorkie breeders in general. Always sends up a red flag in my mind. I tend to think that when you are seeing that much profit and income from breeding, it's really easy to lose site of the best interest of the dogs involved.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Maybe it was an oversite but I do have to disagree with your statement "that the only breeder/club/website that has provided proof of any kind is the Parti Yorkshire Terrier Club." The Colorful Yorkshire Terrier Club was started in August 2008, solely for the purpose of educating people about color genetics in the Yorkshire Terriers and as a safe and friendly place for colorful yorkie breeders to come together. I've tried to acknowledge the Parti Yorkshire terrier club in my postings and would appreciate it if you'd reciprocate the courtesy towards our club too, since we're both fighting for the Parti and other off colored yorkies rights in the Yorkshire Terrier world

Sue, I do give you cudo's, you and your site are very informative.

[AprilLove]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

Which came first the chicken or the egg???

Looks like this thread has come full circle...

I heard it was the chicken....

but I don't know for sure....

Some may believe it was the egg./.....

I agree, full circle with a lot of left turns and some extreme right turns.....



In all seriousness, is there going to be a sticky, Ann???

[Breezeaway]

The Difference in the Parti Yorkie and the Biewer

As far back as we can trace the parti color has been in the Yorkshire Terrier. It is a recessive gene that can be explained very well at the Colorful Yorkie website. CYTC...Party Color
Now as to the difference of the two parti colored dogs, From my tracing of pedigrees and speaking to numerous people. The Biewers started with Mr. Biewer purchasing a stud dog in 1975 from Streamglen Kennels, Streamglen Richard. Nikkos Kennels purchased a couple of females from Streamglen, One being Streamglen Milady. At the time Streamglen was producing Champion status yorkies and were selling yorkies across the world and the United States.
Mr Biewer started breeding Ch. Streamglen Richard to all his Female Yorkshire Terriers trying to make his own mark by producing Champion quality yorkies that would come from his kennel. In his quest for champions, he did a lot of line and inbreeding. Then in January of 1984, a Parti colored Yorkshire Terrier was born from 2 of his Champion dogs line bred from Streamglen Richard. Darling and FruFru.
On the other side of the ocean was Nikko’s Kennels were doing the exact same thing, breeding for Champion Yorkies. Nikkos purchased their Champion male(Ch. Quarnhill Fusspot) from Stoneybrook Kennels in 1971 and bred him to Streamglen Milady, the female they obtained from Streamglen Kennels. Nikkos then began producing Champion Yorkies and continued to line breed also. In the 80’s Parti colored Yorkies started showing up in Nikkos kennels also, Gloria couldn’t bear to put the pups down so she passed them out the back door as pets and told them not to say where they got them(her own words).
Mr. Biewer did get his first ones registered with VDH but they designated them wrong color not for breeding, he wanted his adorable dogs to be shown so he went in search of a club that would accept them as a separate breed because they could not be shown as Yorkshire Terriers. The ACH was the first club to accept them as a distinct and separate breed. The dogs were then registered as Biewer Yorkshire A la Pon Pom. They originally had docked tails but Germany passed a law against docking so the tails then remained long.
In the USA, others wanted theirs registered with AKC as they were out of registered dogs and they wanted the right color to be shown on the papers( Black , white and tan), so in 2000 after 18 months of DNA testing AKC accepted the Parti colored Yorkshire Terrier.
During this time each went its own way in developing and registries.