Differences between Biewer and Parti Yorkies?

[Nancy1999]

I don't think the YTCA is worried about the Parti's growing popularity; a breed club should never change the standard to go with popular trends. Most breeders I've spoken with don't even like it that the Yorkshire Terrier is such a popular breed, they think popularity produces breeders who are just in it for the money, and not a true love for the breed. When you love something, you want to protect it.

[yorkielady06]

Originally Posted by kpstoybox

This is it...bottom line, end of story.

Even if those of us who only want the best for the parti...quit breeding it today...those who breed for the sole purpose of money or those who claim they want just one litter (that's where most of today's pet yorkies come from) will keep the parti growing through the pet population anyway's. One quick look on puppyfind will back up this statement.

I would hazard a guess...that on average...there are at least 20 carriers to every parti born and registered with the AKC. As Debbie mentioned...she tried to get the YTCA to release this info, and they refused. How come? Because contrary to what some have said here...the YTCA is very worried over the parti's growing popularity and the movement to get them recognized.
How many times have we all read on this board...member after member stating their next yorkie will be a Biewer or a Parti. When prices come down even more so...and the pet homes can readily afford them...the parti population will explode whether we like it or not.

So I ask the YTCA members...what good is the DQ helping to better the yorkie breed as a whole? It's not..it's only a quick fix..a band aid to try and keep the parti from infiltrating the show lines. However, they forgot about the parti's greatest weapon...the carrier.

Eventually...they will have no choice but to address this situation in a correct manner and quit sweeping it under the rug with hastily and poorly written DQ's.

I do agree. The parti-carrier is a threat and will be one soon. I have seen some very nice parti-carriers that if the white was not so pronounced on the chest or up to the chin could strut in the ring with pride.
This brings up the earlier question about removing the parents from a breeding/show program. If you have shown your male and championed him out, shown your female and championed her, done all lab/xray/and vet screenings and produced say 2 litters of pups from them that were all standard color. You place the top 3 in show homes, and pet out the rest. Then on the 3rd and final litter you get a particolored pup. You stated you would spay/neuter the line. What about the 3 that are showing with people you have allowed to show them? Do you take the pups back and refund the money? How about their time? What if one of them had championed in a year and now had a litter of pups? What then?
I just see this growing more and more each time a litter of pups are born to parti/or particarriers alike. There is no "test" to assure that your lines are pure. It just takes one here or there to infiltrate the lines and there it is.
Just sad to think with all the unhealthy pups that are born, with all the diseases that are running rampant in the Yorkies lines, that we chose to take a stand against a healthy dog. When you breed a litter, are you only looking for conformation and standard? I would hope that health would be first and foremost in your breeding program. How about temperment?
Like stated I agree that we disagree. I hope that someday the powers that be wake up and see that within their very lines are some beautiful healthy dogs that for years have been shunned and ignored.
Maybe one last word.......I hope the YTCA will look at Americas past...some day owners of Yorkies of color may stand up together and challenge for change. When that happens I bet pens will start changing the standard or there maybe one heck of a fight.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by yorkielady06

I do agree. The parti-carrier is a threat and will be one soon. I have seen some very nice parti-carriers that if the white was not so pronounced on the chest or up to the chin could strut in the ring with pride.
This brings up the earlier question about removing the parents from a breeding/show program. If you have shown your male and championed him out, shown your female and championed her, done all lab/xray/and vet screenings and produced say 2 litters of pups from them that were all standard color. You place the top 3 in show homes, and pet out the rest. Then on the 3rd and final litter you get a particolored pup. You stated you would spay/neuter the line. What about the 3 that are showing with people you have allowed to show them? Do you take the pups back and refund the money? How about their time? What if one of them had championed in a year and now had a litter of pups? What then?
I just see this growing more and more each time a litter of pups are born to parti/or particarriers alike. There is no "test" to assure that your lines are pure. It just takes one here or there to infiltrate the lines and there it is.
Just sad to think with all the unhealthy pups that are born, with all the diseases that are running rampant in the Yorkies lines, that we chose to take a stand against a healthy dog. When you breed a litter, are you only looking for conformation and standard? I would hope that health would be first and foremost in your breeding program. How about temperment?
Like stated I agree that we disagree. I hope that someday the powers that be wake up and see that within their very lines are some beautiful healthy dogs that for years have been shunned and ignored.
Maybe one last word.......I hope the YTCA will look at Americas past...some day owners of Yorkies of color may stand up together and challenge for change. When that happens I bet pens will start changing the standard or there maybe one heck of a fight.

If you have read all my posts you'd know that health is of the utmost importance with me and then the standard. #1: I don't sell show dogs to anyone so therefore I have no worries about anyone producing something. I breed for show dogs for myself period. #2: Temperament is very important, don't want an aggressive dog nor very timid dog in my breeding program. Parti's are not going to be allowed in the standard anytime soon that I can pretty much say. Just like the Poodle standard they have a DQ as well stating no parti coloreds and that is also a DQ, so it's not only the yorkie breed that doesn't accept the Parti's.
Can't challenge or change the standard if you are not a member of the YTCA and the conceus within the YTCA it's not gonna happen.
Donna

[livingdustmops]

The Parti's and the Biewers are a big threat or else the people so opposed to them would not be making post after post on a thread that was suppose to be about the different between a Parti and a Biewer. There are over 10-15 AKC breeds that accept the Parti color.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

The Parti's and the Biewers are a big threat or else the people so opposed to them would not be making post after post on a thread that was suppose to be about the different between a Parti and a Biewer. There are over 10-15 AKC breeds that accept the Parti color.

There are quite a few breeds that are in serious trouble, and anything that may compromise the health of the breed should be seen as a threat. We really don't know enough about the parti gene yet. I don't think they are a threat to YTCA in the way you are implying. It is very easy to breed the parti color, much easier than trying to obtain the right shade of blue, if YTCA members were only concerned about selling dogs and not protecting the breed, they could easily add the parti gene to their lines. It's so much easier to add a recessive trait than remove it.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

The Parti's and the Biewers are a big threat or else the people so opposed to them would not be making post after post on a thread that was suppose to be about the different between a Parti and a Biewer. There are over 10-15 AKC breeds that accept the Parti color.

it got off topic And as far as them being a threat they aren't to me because if it's not in the standard it's not a threat. I'm just upholding the written standard and following it no threat just stating facts
If you want a breed that accepts Parti's go to that breed if you want to conform to a standard. YTCA isn't going to change the standard to fit the Parti yorkie.
And on the Biewer they are making it a seperate breed so when they are recognized as a seperate breed then I have no problems with them.

Donna

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

If you have read all my posts you'd know that health is of the utmost importance with me and then the standard. #1: I don't sell show dogs to anyone so therefore I have no worries about anyone producing something. I breed for show dogs for myself period. #2: Temperament is very important, don't want an aggressive dog nor very timid dog in my breeding program. Parti's are not going to be allowed in the standard anytime soon that I can pretty much say. Just like the Poodle standard they have a DQ as well stating no parti coloreds and that is also a DQ, so it's not only the yorkie breed that doesn't accept the Parti's.
Can't challenge or change the standard if you are not a member of the YTCA and the conceus within the YTCA it's not gonna happen.
Donna

Parti poodles can be shown in UKC.

[livingdustmops]

A gene color does not harm the health of a dog...inbreeding harms these dogs. Since I have been involved with the Biewers (which is the same dog as the Parti based on pedigree's) I have spent a great deal of time reading books on genetics and color. I believe it is your mission and a few other breeders on YT to continuously try to imply there are health issues with these dogs when their issues are no different than any other Yorkie.

Why do you think the Yorkie is 36 times more likely to have LS? It was because the breeders didn't care and continuously inbreed these dogs and in many cases still do. That is a much bigger health concern than a color in a dog. Why do you think many members in YTCA tried their hardest to discredit Terri Shumsky..they made her life a living hell when she tried to bring the truth out of what was going on with the dogs and LS in the show world. She is my hero because she was willing to speak the truth about the dogs and she was willing to hurt her standing in YTCA to save her precious dogs.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

it got off topic And as far as them being a threat they aren't to me because if it's not in the standard it's not a threat. I'm just upholding the written standard and following it no threat just stating facts
If you want a breed that accepts Parti's go to that breed if you want to conform to a standard. YTCA isn't going to change the standard to fit the Parti yorkie.
And on the Biewer they are making it a seperate breed so when they are recognized as a seperate breed then I have no problems with them.
Donna

I think two of the Biewer clubs don't believe in breeding biewer to yorkie, but one club still believes in doing this. Are the offspring biewers or yorkies? Since there is one club that still believes in breeding biewers with yorkies, I believe having the YTCA link is applicable again, after all, yorkies are involved.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

If you have read all my posts you'd know that health is of the utmost importance with me and then the standard. #1: I don't sell show dogs to anyone so therefore I have no worries about anyone producing something. I breed for show dogs for myself period. #2: Temperament is very important, don't want an aggressive dog nor very timid dog in my breeding program. Parti's are not going to be allowed in the standard anytime soon that I can pretty much say. Just like the Poodle standard they have a DQ as well stating no parti coloreds and that is also a DQ, so it's not only the yorkie breed that doesn't accept the Parti's.
Can't challenge or change the standard if you are not a member of the YTCA and the conceus within the YTCA it's not gonna happen.
Donna

Exactly and they certainly make sure no one gets in that even looks at a parti. But one day......

[yorkielady06]

So help me here....
The YTCA will never change its standards for popular trends?
Did it not do that with the blue and tan/black and tan/blue and gold/ or whatever color combo is now allowed. How about when the weights were 2 classes and now are one? And the latest change to completely exclude and in many people rudely "unanimously" rule against unscrupulous breeders looking to make a buck?
They in fact do change, like it or not.
LOL at the way your post sounded to me. "Can't challenge or change the standard if you are not a member of the YTCA and the conceus within the YTCA it's not gonna happen." Adding humor, please do not take it wrong but should na na na not be after that? lol
I do want to protect the Yorkshire Terrier breed and preserve it for generations to come. It is not working that well right now and change is needed. I want to see less health issues in the ring and out of the ring. I want Yorkies to live to 15 as a norm again. I want them to walk on firm knees and hips. I want them to be free from liver shunts and other life threatening diseases. I want them to have happy homes that do not neglect and abuse them. Imagine what OUR dogs parent club could do for US owners if they all worked together on more important issues. Because when it comes right down to it, the YTCA is MY dogs club. I may not be a member but I DO own Yorkies and YOU represent my dog in the public also. And I for one am not happy with the way it is going for MY breed. Everyone on this thread has a say in this. I feel a parent club not only is there to protect a "standard" but to protect a breed. You as a YTCA member have chosen to ...
'To encourage and promote quality in the breeding of pure-bred Yorkshire Terriers and do all possible to bring their natural qualities to perfection." Did the AKC not get proof that particoloring is indeed their natural quality also? How many DNA tests were done to prove this fact from more than one line?
"To do all in its power to protect and advance the interests of the breed and to encourage sportsmanlike competition at dog shows and obedience trials."
Protect and advance interest in the breed? By the shunning of owners of Yorkies who may one day want to be a member? If I owned a particolored yorkie that was altered could I be a member? Would my dog be shunned? Many are interested in the new colors...how are you going foster that interest for the breed?
"To urge members and breeders to accept the standard of the breed as approved by The American Kennel Club as the only standard of excellence by which the Yorkshire Terrier shall be judged." Now the AKC does recognize and register "off" color dogs. How long will it take for them to allow them in the ring? When they do, will we be here with open arms to let YOU in our breeding program? hmmm
Most of the people who are trying to improve the parti lines and better the breed are working to improve the breed also. They are trying to protect and advance interest. Our dogs are AKC registered. Their standard colored parti carrying offspring can show in AKC shows. They can compete at obedience trials. Should we not be offered the chance to show the YTCA and its members what we are working on. The opportunity is there to foster us, to help us to improve. Instead we are shunned and chastised.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I think two of the Biewer clubs don't believe in breeding biewer to yorkie, but one club still believes in doing this. Are the offspring biewers or yorkies? Since there is one club that still believes in breeding biewers with yorkies, I believe having the YTCA link is applicable again, after all, yorkies are involved.

Well stay tuned...things change everyday in the clubs but just because a club believes as the Germans do to bred back to a Yorkie does not have anything to do with the YTCA...nothing.

These dogs are all Yorkies...take the time to read the pedigree's and you will see these dogs started from a top show breeder in England and were inbreed big time then 2 shipped to Germany and a few to California.

[shamrocks]

Originally Posted by yorkielady06

So help me here....
The YTCA will never change its standards for popular trends?
Did it not do that with the blue and tan/black and tan/blue and gold/ or whatever color combo is now allowed. How about when the weights were 2 classes and now are one? And the latest change to completely exclude and in many people rudely "unanimously" rule against unscrupulous breeders looking to make a buck?
They in fact do change, like it or not.
LOL at the way your post sounded to me. "Can't challenge or change the standard if you are not a member of the YTCA and the conceus within the YTCA it's not gonna happen." Adding humor, please do not take it wrong but should na na na not be after that? lol
I do want to protect the Yorkshire Terrier breed and preserve it for generations to come. It is not working that well right now and change is needed. I want to see less health issues in the ring and out of the ring. I want Yorkies to live to 15 as a norm again. I want them to walk on firm knees and hips. I want them to be free from liver shunts and other life threatening diseases. I want them to have happy homes that do not neglect and abuse them. Imagine what OUR dogs parent club could do for US owners if they all worked together on more important issues. Because when it comes right down to it, the YTCA is MY dogs club. I may not be a member but I DO own Yorkies and YOU represent my dog in the public also. And I for one am not happy with the way it is going for MY breed. Everyone on this thread has a say in this. I feel a parent club not only is there to protect a "standard" but to protect a breed. You as a YTCA member have chosen to ...
'To encourage and promote quality in the breeding of pure-bred Yorkshire Terriers and do all possible to bring their natural qualities to perfection." Did the AKC not get proof that particoloring is indeed their natural quality also? How many DNA tests were done to prove this fact from more than one line?
"To do all in its power to protect and advance the interests of the breed and to encourage sportsmanlike competition at dog shows and obedience trials."
Protect and advance interest in the breed? By the shunning of owners of Yorkies who may one day want to be a member? If I owned a particolored yorkie that was altered could I be a member? Would my dog be shunned? Many are interested in the new colors...how are you going foster that interest for the breed?
"To urge members and breeders to accept the standard of the breed as approved by The American Kennel Club as the only standard of excellence by which the Yorkshire Terrier shall be judged." Now the AKC does recognize and register "off" color dogs. How long will it take for them to allow them in the ring? When they do, will we be here with open arms to let YOU in our breeding program? hmmm
Most of the people who are trying to improve the parti lines and better the breed are working to improve the breed also. They are trying to protect and advance interest. Our dogs are AKC registered. Their standard colored parti carrying offspring can show in AKC shows. They can compete at obedience trials. Should we not be offered the chance to show the YTCA and its members what we are working on. The opportunity is there to foster us, to help us to improve. Instead we are shunned and chastised.

I have been reading this thread from the begging, and even though I do not have a dog in the fight( no pun intended) I love your passion for the Parti's ,well not just for the Parti's but for all Yorkie's. I love an underdog ( once again no pun intended) and I pray that the Parti will one day get its place in the sun.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

Well stay tuned...things change everyday in the clubs but just because a club believes as the Germans do to bred back to a Yorkie does not have anything to do with the YTCA...nothing.

These dogs are all Yorkies...take the time to read the pedigree's and you will see these dogs started from a top show breeder in England and were inbreed big time then 2 shipped to Germany and a few to California.

Not all the Biewer clubs believe as you do, but if this is what you believe than the YTCA link is indeed relevant.

[TammyJM]

I wasn't going to post in this thread because it always starts and stops with the same things being said...the exact same false info about the parti's health. I can't speak for other parti owners/breeders but I can speak for me and my dogs. I currently own 3 parti colored Yorkies and did, until recently, have two carriers (one being Livi's baby and one being my male, Huck) and I also raised another parti carrier of Livi's last Summer. With that said, I have had 4 vets now tell me how INCREDIBLY sound and healthy that each and every one of those parti & carriers are!! The babies had more shots today and another exam...the vet bragged on them from this time and also told me that her and the other vet had talked about how extremely nice and sound they were at their last check-up.

I am tired of hearing how we do not know if the parti is healthy or not! I have now owned, with Livi's babies, a total of 6 partis and/or carriers and they are (as all of the vets have said) EXTREMELY healthy!! No, I cannot speak for all partis but I have 6 out of 6 that are perfect. I can't say that for the one traditonal colored Yorkie that I bought from a show breeder.