Mill argument

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

And Yorkie Mamma you have not even included your TIME at minimum wage even for being there to care for the mother during and after the whelping and to care for the tiny babies in their frst days, especially any who may need to be fed supplementally or who are tiny and have trouble for whatever reason.

Your time is valuable and needs to be included in the calculation in my opinion.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

You sound like my ideal of a great breeder. I purposely paid a LOT for all of my dogs as I want the breeders to provide the very best care for the puppies I buy, their mothers and their fathers and other litters. I want them to have the incentive to not work out of the home, to be there for the dogs and make it their living. To do this they must ask a lot for the dogs and I am more than okay with that because they are priceless to me and the upfront cost is a small amount of what I will spend on the animal throughout its life.I would never buy a $500 dog because I know there is no way they were properly cared for, or, if they were, it it just not fair to the breeder, imo.

To some people money IS involved in getting a yorkie - while it must be nice to not have to worry about price - I think a dis-service was done with this statement done to yorkies in that price range. My Chanel was $650.00 and she is smart, funny AND gorgeous.... I won't refer her breeder but she IS in business in Houston and selling lots of yorkies - Cheri was under $1,000.00 also.

I have a fantastic girl in Chanel and I there is nothing wrong with getting a puppy for under $1,000.00.....Money IS an issue in my house but my girls have never lacked for anything and are completely healthy. In my opionion ...saying someone has to be wealthy to be a good breeder or someone MUST pay thousands of dollars or they won't get get a quality yorkie is a pretty scary statement. The turn of this thread makes me want to defend those of us who have to watch our money....it kind of makes me feel bad hearing these things.

I don't see the correlation between the cost of a yorkie and vet bills either - high vet bills can apply to ANY breed unless we are blessed with healthy pets and Hopefully - We all are.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by yorkieangel

SIGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
If I could take some of you guys and show you a REAL PuppyMIll you would never forget it. Forget 50 or 100 dogs.... I can show you 500 to 1000 and more...sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I could show you quite a few like this and break your hearts.

True mills are terrible! I also have seen big breeders with maybe a hundred who were clean, neat healthy and truly caring. Believe me there is a world of difference in a mill and a big breeder.

I HAD to post again to get my mind back on track ...sigh.....This had been a really great thread.

yorkieangel.....I agree with you your Mill statement above - when I got Tessa my cocker - I have NEVER gotten that place out of my mind - when I learned what puppy mills were - I remember being so shocked and telling my husband - "MY God...WE were in a puppymill" I showed him pictures and he totally agreed

I can STILL hear the noise and see the fear and hope of all those cockers and it's been almost 10 YEARS since we were there.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by red98vett

To some people money IS involved in getting a yorkie - while it must be nice to not have to worry about price - I think a dis-service was done with this statement done to yorkies in that price range. My Chanel was $650.00 and she is smart, funny AND gorgeous.... I won't refer her breeder but she IS in business in Houston and selling lots of yorkies - Cheri was under $1,000.00 also.

I have a fantastic girl in Chanel and I there is nothing wrong with getting a puppy for under $1,000.00.....Money IS an issue in my house but my girls have never lacked for anything and are completely healthy. In my opionion ...saying someone has to be wealthy to be a good breeder or someone MUST pay thousands of dollars or they won't get get a quality yorkie is a pretty scary statement. The turn of this thread makes me want to defend those of us who have to watch our money....it kind of makes me feel bad hearing these things.

I don't see the correlation between the cost of a yorkie and vet bills either - high vet bills can apply to ANY breed unless we are blessed with healthy pets and Hopefully - We all are.

It just depends on your priorities.

I would doubt there is any one on here who doesn't have to watch their money and stay within their budget.

I drive a really old car and I have no car payment. I chose a yorkie (my Ava) over a vacation this summer ( I live in San Diego so I feel like I live in a resort town anyway...lol) .

Someone else could give up Starbucks or cigarettes to help pay for it. I was in no way implying that only rich people should own yorkies! Again my point is simply that breeders deserve to be better compensated for all they do...that is all.
I love this quote and I cannot remember the author so it is not an original but it fits here I think!

"No matter your wealth or personal possession you are rich if you own a dog!"

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by PCMom

I bought Pepper from a petstore. He arrived at the petstore from a woman who breeds yorkies and other breeds..a backyard breeder...via Hunte Corp. the countries biggest puppy broker. I won't go into my opinion of Hunte.

I went to Pepshop puppies.com, they did a search to find out if Pep's breeder had any Citations (sp?) on her record..she had one. There was an excess of waste near the cages of the big dogs.

Pepper has an illness called Cerebellar Abiotrophy. I have been searching for information about this illness for over a year now..the experts are still trying to understand and cure it. The latest info is: they now believe that both parent carry a recessive gene and that one of them has to have an ACTIVE case of CA. Most likey everyone one of their puppies will have this devistating (I am truly sorry for my spelling!) disease. It is a neurological disease that effects his balance among other things. But the thing is..it isn't all of the time (yet). So, if this woman keeps her dogs in cages, even if she let it out an hour a day for excersize, she feeds and waters them, they get their shots, and she keeps their area clean, without being able to see them walk around she wouldn't know that she is filling this world with puppies whose lives are hell! Is she a puppy mill? I think she is...even if all the conditions I said above were met (I don't believe they are but even if) these puppies she is mass producing are really living in hell! Pepper's legs will eventually quit supporting him at all and at that time I will have to put him to sleep...I love him too much to let him try to live like that! I am one of those who view her pets as her children...LOL just ask my human kids!

Please understand that this is not an attack...I am really curious if you would all consider her a mill...I don't want to start anything! I am still after over a year with Pepper trying to deal with his illness. One that I now know could have been prevented by just not breeding those 2 dogs! This is all just my opinion!

Kathy and Sir Pepper

Kathy ...you are a good friend of mine. Pepper is my heart - I want everyone to SEE this post by you regarding why many bad breeders should be considered small scale mills...or why NO ONE should buy in a Pet Store.

In my heart I believe that his illness was caused by his living conditions at birth...That breeder who sold him is just evil - she doesn't care what she's breeding as long as she's making money....and Hunte Corp is notorious for transporting dogs in hot cramped 18 wheelers. Many dogs don't even live thru the trips via Hunte Corp.

When people wonder why we say please don't buy from Pet Stores - HERE IS THE REASON. To them - he's just a product. If that breeder had no Pet Store to sell to - maybe she wouldn't have been breeding yorkies that are born with this many strikes against them. Maybe she'd even have to actually STOP breeding if she couldn't sell to a Pet Store....but as long as she is making money - I'm sure she's still breeding.

PEPPER IS MY HERO and I hope anyone reading his story will remember him. He's a special boy and I know when that sad day comes that he can no longer function.....my heart will be with you in a million pieces.

Bless you and Pepper Kathy and thank you for sharing his story - I have tears in my eyes thinking of how brave and happy he is and I'm just so glad he has you for his mom and I've always been proud to be your friend.

THIS is Kathy's baby Sir Pepper

[txshopper73]

AAHH! Pepper sure is a handsome fella!

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

AAHH! Pepper sure is a handsome fella!

Thank you Kimberly...This is a better pic of pcmom's Pepper... I'm just so sad for the heartache to come....Kathy - hope the pictures are ok - This is Peppers Happy Face ....you'd never know how ill he is....sweet angel

After hearing Kathy & Peppers story - I hope people will realize the dangers of Pet Stores and bad breeders/brokers -

[Flakes]

My heart goes out to that little angel with the happy face. He is a perfect example of why there should be a ban on pet stores selling dogs.

[crystalsmom]

Brett, I understand alot of what you are saying. They say you can love your pet
and spoil it to death as long as it doesn't interfere with your human relationships. I certainly agree with that. I've seen some pretty crazy things. Hollybelle's
in Tn. is a great example of a woman breeding in her home, says she has a small
number of dogs, 5 yr health guarantee (not written so it didn't mean anything)
Ad in Dog World for over 7 yrs with a picture of Billy Ray Cyrus with one of her
dogs and herself. Then there is an ad for a yorkie that states they run a kennel and have 3 males
pups , 1 yr health guarantee , vet check and shots up to date.
Both asking the
same amount. Who would you call? The first of course. She had 260 sick, mis
treated dogs living in her rat infested house full of feces. You cannot believe what people say.
It's sad but it's a fact of life. People will say I got to see the mother and father of
the dog I just bought
How do you know if it's the mother and father??? They
bring out the best looking male and female they have and want the sale. I've
been in sales all my life and was brought up in Chicago and because of that I don't trust many
people that I don't know well. You have to do your homework and I would never buy a
puppy from even one of the best know breeders with out picking it up but that
is just me. People have said "Gosh you were really lucky" Ha! Luck had a little
to do with it but I hunted and I know I spent more on phone calls and gas than I did
for the dog (years ago people didn't have e-mail) Now I trust more because I
can spot a bad deal a million miles away but until you've shopped a bit you just
can't compare. I do disagree with you on one point . If you find a true "puppy
mill" I feel you should NEVER BUY from them. By not buying you put them out of
business!!

[dianne]

I saw that picture with billy ray cyrus a couple of years ago and I dont live in th USA,What was the breed of those dogs they were fluffy white ?Tell me more dianne and prudence

[Annadoodle]

Originally Posted by red98vett

Thank you Kimberly...This is a better pic of pcmom's Pepper... I'm just so sad for the heartache to come....Kathy - hope the pictures are ok - This is Peppers Happy Face ....you'd never know how ill he is....sweet angel

After hearing Kathy & Peppers story - I hope people will realize the dangers of Pet Stores and bad breeders/brokers -

Pepper has already stolen my heart....thanks Villette...

[fasteddie]

PCMom: Thank you for sharing your story of Pepper. I am glad he has such a loving Mom to take care of him. The more information gets spread and the more people know about pet stores and puppymills, the better off we are and the closer we are to shutting them all down.

[crystalsmom]

Originally Posted by dianne

I saw that picture with billy ray cyrus a couple of years ago and I dont live in th USA,What was the breed of those dogs they were fluffy white ?Tell me more dianne and prudence

Maltese!! She asked $2000 and had no trouble getting it.

[sabrinasmom]

I think a lot of us are uneasy talking about puppy mills because the definitions are so erratic. Some people have dogs to make money. I don't have a problem with that because some people raise cats, cows, emus etc. to make money. I have a problem with anyone who raises animals and doesn't clean their living quarters, feed them, vet them, water them etc. properly. I may treat my pup like a child (I do) but I don't expect this of everyone, I do expect people I deal with to treat their animals decently, whatever that animal is. I abhor the things I've seen on Opra or 60 minutes, even our local news with starving, mistreated horses and dogs. I'd turn someone in for it - but it's animal abuse, short and simple. That is something I think most people could agree on, and if that was the definition used to fight for animals, instead of their making money, over breeding their dogs, etc., I think you would find more people willing to agree to that.

I wish more of these groups could start out on a more common basis and maybe, just maybe, more people would support the efforts of good people trying to make a difference.

Okay - that's it - my $.01 worth, and off my chest.

[crystalsmom]

Originally Posted by dianne

I saw that picture with billy ray cyrus a couple of years ago and I dont live in th USA,What was the breed of those dogs they were fluffy white ?Tell me more dianne and prudence

Here's Hollybelle's website and look how long it took to shut her down!!

http://www.hollybellemaltese.com/index2.html