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Old 11-19-2008, 04:37 PM   #16
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I am the proud owner of Manolo whos father and grandfather are champion blood lines. I dont show Manolo but everyone tells me I should. Its funny because Lola my sugar plum and Manolo have had 6 pups ( NO MORE) and one of them to me looks like a Parti. TeresaM, Gracie...I tell her this everytime I see them. She is silvery white and black and has some gold around her mouth. None of the other pups have this color and they are 9months old. I think it must be a recessive gene thing.....She is gorgous.
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Old 11-19-2008, 04:55 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by manolos mom View Post
I am the proud owner of Manolo whos father and grandfather are champion blood lines. I dont show Manolo but everyone tells me I should. Its funny because Lola my sugar plum and Manolo have had 6 pups ( NO MORE) and one of them to me looks like a Parti. TeresaM, Gracie...I tell her this everytime I see them. She is silvery white and black and has some gold around her mouth. None of the other pups have this color and they are 9months old. I think it must be a recessive gene thing.....She is gorgous.
Oh I'd like to see her picture.
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Old 11-19-2008, 04:58 PM   #18
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Oh I'd like to see her picture.
So Bchgirl, is it true all Biewers are more laid back?
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Old 11-19-2008, 05:11 PM   #19
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So Bchgirl, is it true all Biewers are more laid back?
The difference I see here....Reggie is much more gentler...(is that a word ). I really don't know how to describe it...just a sweeter personality and very eager to please.

I do not think he's laid back though....he cuddles but he loves to rough house, play and bark. He also gets a case of the zoomies....that's when you run in circles at 100 miles an hour. Or as fast as biewers/yorkies go anyway.
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Old 11-19-2008, 05:13 PM   #20
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My experience with the Biewers is they are laid back, gentle, and wonderful pups. They are very different imho from their 1st cousins the Yorkies.
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Old 11-19-2008, 05:18 PM   #21
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My experience with the Biewers is they are laid back, gentle, and wonderful pups. They are very different imho from their 1st cousins the Yorkies.
So the opposite of laid back is hyper? Seriously, I'm always reading how laid back they are, and I was wondering what it meant?
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Old 11-19-2008, 05:53 PM   #22
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At the risk of hurting some feelings (definitely not the intention) I do think that some of the Biewers are stunningly beautiful, however...

What I don't get is the idea that a certain color, or combination is rare. What is actually rare is quality. So few people are interested in quality, or capable of producing it, that it's just easier to push novelty as having value. Basic homework will give enough education to produce novel colors or combinations, but can it be done while maintaining health, structure, grace, movement, balance, sophistication, profile, temperament, etc.?

I admire those who devote themselves to researching and producing only the best, whether it's a Yorkie, Biewer, Parti, or another breed, all are to be commended because they are a dying breed themselves. Sure they would love for the program to support itself, but since that rarely happens they continue because they love the breed and the accomplishment.

The point being is that a poor quality dog of an unusual color only has value to the person who cannot see the fact that it is a poor quality dog. A well bred, healthy, structurally correct dog... of any color... and the person who bred him is the real rarity. JMHO
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:14 PM   #23
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At the risk of hurting some feelings (definitely not the intention) I do think that some of the Biewers are stunningly beautiful, however...

What I don't get is the idea that a certain color, or combination is rare. What is actually rare is quality. So few people are interested in quality, or capable of producing it, that it's just easier to push novelty as having value. Basic homework will give enough education to produce novel colors or combinations, but can it be done while maintaining health, structure, grace, movement, balance, sophistication, profile, temperament, etc.?

I admire those who devote themselves to researching and producing only the best, whether it's a Yorkie, Biewer, Parti, or another breed, all are to be commended because they are a dying breed themselves. Sure they would love for the program to support itself, but since that rarely happens they continue because they love the breed and the accomplishment.

The point being is that a poor quality dog of an unusual color only has value to the person who cannot see the fact that it is a poor quality dog. A well bred, healthy, structurally correct dog... of any color... and the person who bred him is the real rarity. JMHO
Excellent post! I'm not sure most people even understand what "quality" means, and therefore obvious things such as ultra low weight, or novel colors become more sought after.
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:24 PM   #24
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I love me some chocolate yorkie I first had Bella who is within the standards for color, then came along coco. Coco probably wasn't bought from the best breeder I could have found and she did have some minor problems when we first brought her home but she is small, sturdy and sooo loving. I've always been living with labs and love the color variations they can have so I think its just within me to want different colors of the same breed. I do not agree with prices being higher because they are "rare" or any of that BS however.
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:57 AM   #25
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The YTCA does not believe that the parti yorkie and the other odd ball colors are pure Yorkie. The Yorkie does not carry the pieball gene. Research the history of the Yorkie. It has already been established that the Biewer is not a pure Yorkie. It probably started as a shih-tzu or papillon Yorkie cross. This is most likely the same for the parti Yorkie. There have been way too many irresponsible "breeders" before DNA tests that were only "in it" for the $$$$. I have witnessed first hand how some of these "breeders" have produced parti colored "yorkies" and believe me, they were not pure Yorkie. Then these "breeders" ask outlandish amounts of $$ for these "rare" colored puppies. These are two of the reasons that YTCA will not change their standards: no proof that they are 100% Yorkie and YTcA does not support "breeders" that only breed for $$$ and are not interested in breeding to the breed standard. These "breeders" do not have the best interest of the breed as the #1 priority.
There are others on this forum that have other opinions about this issue.
There may be no proof that the off colored yorkies are pure but there is no proof that they are not. To me it is more logical that the non papered, free to roam dogs who began this breed had more genes hiding in their background then their blue and tan coat coloring revealed.

Color discrimination is a good way to describe it ... Some don't accept the parti, golden or chocolate yorkies but they will accept their blue and tan full siblings & blue and tan parents (grand parents, great grand parents ...) who carry the same genes. Is it because they are the accepted color (blue and tan)? Their correct coloring must make them a pure bred? The traditional colored parents who produced these off colors, are just as much of a "non purebred" as their off colored pups are, yet the traditional colored ones are accepted?

I don't see the same color discrimination with black coated adults. I'm sure some who oppose the parti, chocolate and golden colored yorkies, may own and breed a black and gold, or sooty colored yorkie?

I found an interesting website that had excerpts from a diary written in the 1870's where a man was in search of "Scotch terriers" to improve his bloodlines. In his writings he talks about seeing different lines (owned by different breeders) of scotch terriers with white feet and bald (white) faces. The yorkie has Scotch terrier in their background, Swift's Old Crab was a crossed scotch terrier (crossed with what I wonder?)

You can't tell the genes within a dog, by looking at the color of it's coat and even though it's thought that the founding dogs were only blue and tan, that does not mean the genes within them will only produce blue and tan offspring.
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:39 AM   #26
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Parti, golden and chocolate yorkies are no more prone to health issues than blue and tan yorkies are. Blue born yorkies are a different matter and often do have major health, skin and hair problems.

Other than the blue borns, the other off colored yorkies are not caused by a "genetic defect", their coloring is the result of recessive genes for those particular colors that are carried by both their parents. When a pup receives a recessive parti gene from the sire and a recessive parti gene from the dam, the pup will be parti colored (or chocolate or golden depending on which recessive color genes the parents carry).

People who still claim that parti, chocolate and golden colors are "genetically defective" are behind the times and need to do some research on canine coat color genetics ;-)
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:56 AM   #27
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They're awfully cute. I bet they're hard to find in my part of the country though...it's harder to find the "rare" breeds here...
Nope, they are not as 'rare' as you'd think here in good ole AL. I have a Biewer.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:01 AM   #28
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So Bchgirl, is it true all Biewers are more laid back?
My Biewer is definately more laid back than my standard Yorkies. She doesn't really like a lot of commotion and will slink of to nap somewhere quiet while the Yorkies want to be right in the middle of all the turmoil.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:11 AM   #29
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Bhikku...the Biewer is different from the Parti. The Biewer is from Germany, they are German and U.S. registered although not AKc recognized. There is a standard set forth by the German club and that is the same standard we follow in the U.S. The Biewer keeps it's long tail where the Parti tail is docked like a Yorkie and the Biewer has a standard for color placement where the Parti doesn't. I have always been a Yorkie person through and through but when I met the Biewer I was hooked! I still love Yorkies but the laid back personality of the Biewer pulled me in...they are quiet yet playful, loving and loyal...not to mention simply beautiful with their striking colors and plume like tail. I have 4 Biewers and I don't think you would be disappointed if you decide to add one to your family.

As for the Biewer not being from the Yorkie...well...I won't even get into that controversy.
They are NOT registered with FCI or the German Kennel Club in Germany . To make it clear, the registries you are referring to, are the Biewer Kennel CLub registries only, the Biewer Kennel CLub and Biewer yorkies or Biewer Terriers depending on who you are talking to, is NOT recognized by the FCI in Europe, the German Kennel Club in Europe, the AKC in US, the Canadian Kennel Club in Canada.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:18 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Pinehaven View Post
There may be no proof that the off colored yorkies are pure but there is no proof that they are not. To me it is more logical that the non papered, free to roam dogs who began this breed had more genes hiding in their background then their blue and tan coat coloring revealed.

Color discrimination is a good way to describe it ... Some don't accept the parti, golden or chocolate yorkies but they will accept their blue and tan full siblings & blue and tan parents (grand parents, great grand parents ...) who carry the same genes. Is it because they are the accepted color (blue and tan)? Their correct coloring must make them a pure bred? The traditional colored parents who produced these off colors, are just as much of a "non purebred" as their off colored pups are, yet the traditional colored ones are accepted?

I don't see the same color discrimination with black coated adults. I'm sure some who oppose the parti, chocolate and golden colored yorkies, may own and breed a black and gold, or sooty colored yorkie?

I found an interesting website that had excerpts from a diary written in the 1870's where a man was in search of "Scotch terriers" to improve his bloodlines. In his writings he talks about seeing different lines (owned by different breeders) of scotch terriers with white feet and bald (white) faces. The yorkie has Scotch terrier in their background, Swift's Old Crab was a crossed scotch terrier (crossed with what I wonder?)

You can't tell the genes within a dog, by looking at the color of it's coat and even though it's thought that the founding dogs were only blue and tan, that does not mean the genes within them will only produce blue and tan offspring.
Yes there is proof Biewers are not pure yorkies. The Biewer Club members submitted DNA samples from their dogs to a geneticist; the report came back there is very little yorkie in these dogs.
That was on the Biewer Terrier CLub of AMerica website for a while, disappeared last time I checked.
There is no such colour as a gold born yorkie pup. I have seen pictures of alleged pb gold born and they do not look at all like purebreds.
A gold mature yorkie can result from colour running gold where the gold furnishings have run into the blue covering the blue. Buit if you cut down the coat, you can see the blue pattern. It would considered to be pet quality, not something to be used in a breeding program.
Chocolate colour yorkies are a result of two recessive genes. There have been certain health issues mostly skin problems but not really something you can 't live with as far as I know. I don't know what kind of longevity for a life spand has been noted in a Chocolate yorkie.
Understanding the world of purebred dogs and understanding breed standards, working with long time reputable show breeders will usually clear up any questions about why a parent Club such as YTCA would not allow 'rare' colours or other anomolies to take over the breed.
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