Color discrimination - what's the dilly-o?

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

Actually there are a number of breeds with deafness considered related to merle and pie bald genes. Yorkies are not listed within this group...

Maybe because there has not been enough documented research with the Yorkies?

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

In order to declare with certainty that the off colored dogs--be they Yorkies or any other breed--are not prone to health issues not found in the standard colored dog, wouldn't there have to be alot of long term, carefully documented research and observation on them for several generations? (Blue borns aside.) And with numberous lines? Seems to me that at this point, that claim cannot be indisputably determined, one way or the other....

The Nikkos line of parti's have been producing for 10 years and there are at least 4 and 5 generations of parti's, looking through my pedigrees. I only have 3 generations of parti color, on my outcross line. At this time, I've heard of no parti, chocolate or golden line having any health problems or being at greater risk of health problems, than what we see in the traditional colored yorkies.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

The Nikkos line of parti's have been producing for 10 years and there are at least 4 and 5 generations of parti's, looking through my pedigrees. I only have 3 generations of parti color, on my outcross line. At this time, I've heard of no parti, chocolate or golden line having any health problems or being at greater risk of health problems, than what we see in the traditional colored yorkies.

How many different lines, aside from your own, of indisputable origin, have you heard of that have done such extensive research and studying of the results. How many 3rd, 4th generation lines of parties or colored-yorkies?
I'm not claiming it to be fact, just that at this point there hasn't been enough long term research done to either prove or disprove the claim.

[JaLaYorkieGirl]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

The argument about Biewers, particolour, golds, chocolates, blueborn has gone around so many times.
Personally if the Biewer Terrier breeders ( not Yorkie) want to go through all the hoops and many years to have them truely recognized by valid registries and kennel clubs no one will object.
As for promoting wrong colour Yorkies, I am sure it is noted that reputable long time show breeders do not promote, sell nor breed them. True fanciers of any purebred breed will not do anything to compromise the integrity of their chosen breed.
I have friends that have been in Yorkies 30+ years odd they have never had a tri colour yorkie or a gold born one for that matter.

Excellent Post...

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

How many different lines, aside from your own, of indisputable origin, have you heard of that have done such extensive research and studying of the results. How many 3rd, 4th generation lines of parties or colored-yorkies?
I'm not claiming it to be fact, just that at this point there hasn't been enough long term research done to either prove or disprove the claim.

I don't know how many different parti lines there are at this time but so far, with the help of other parti breeders, the lines that I am aware of including the Nikkos lines, are all tracing back to one dog. I recently traced my outcross parti to this same dog as well, 12 generations back - my outcross has no Nikkos in his background but this one particular dog in question is also Nikkos Rolls Royce Ashley's great great grand sire. I've found several other lines, that don't have any Nikkos breeding but they have the same common denominator going 8 or 9 generations back to this one dog.

So are these parti's from different lines or are they from the same line, through this one dog that keeps popping up in parti pedigrees (often showing up multiple times)? None of the lines that I know of, are producing deaf, blind or unhealthy offspring.

What many may not be aware of is that in addition to AKC extensively DNA'ing the Nikkos parti line in the late 90's, they also spoke with a number of old time breeders (breeders from the 1920's - 1980's era) about off colors being born in their litters. From what I'm told, one breeder in particular told AKC that they had had more parti's than the Nikkos breeders but that they "got rid" of them. This just happens to be the same breeder who's dog is continuously seen in the parti lines today.

If this dog (born almost 50 years ago) is the common link where the parti gene is coming from, than you can throw away your theories that "no reputable breeder has ever produced a parti" ... of course, I tend to believe that the genes have been hidden in some of our dogs since the beginning of the breed so that may explain how one champion dog continues to show up in many, if not all of the parti pedigrees.

As for other off colors, I have heard of no golden or chocolate issues either but haven't studied theses colors extensively myself.

[phfgkl]

The biewer terrier has just been proven they are their own breed, they are trying very hard to get AKC to recognize them as their own breed..We just keep hoping one day they will.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Bhikku

Gotcha. I didn't realize the Yorkshire didn't carry a piebald gene.

The Yorkshire does carry the piebald gene. The AKC has established that fact through research.

Anyone who researches the history will discover that for themselves.

If they were not pure yorkies, the YTCA would have no say over them what-so-ever. The fact that they address the issue is proof that they do believe that they are yorkies.

The statments on the YTCA site are very confusing. On one hand they say they are not yorkies, and then they turn around and address it as a color fault. Well Which is it? The also bring up how much money is being charged for the parti colored yorkies.. If thery are not yhorkies then why do they address theat?

The AKC has interviewed old time breeders and has statemets from then stating that parti colored pups have been showing up in their litters forever. They either destroyed the pups or gave them away to keep the YTCA from finding out.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by zenzele

Based on various readings I've done these are considered genetic defects that can lead to health issues ....some of the info I came across...

Teacup yorkies, Chocolate yorkies, parti-colored yorkies, Yorkie Breeder info

Young Yorkies Present AKC Standard Yorkshire Terriers Explained by Carolyn Hensley

Yorkie puppy coat color stages within the first two years of maturity - yorkie hair color

At this point there is nothing to back up that information. There are old parti colored yorkies that are still alive and well. However the color has not been recognized long enough to prove that claim one way or another.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Yes there is proof Biewers are not pure yorkies. The Biewer Club members submitted DNA samples from their dogs to a geneticist; the report came back there is very little yorkie in these dogs.
That was on the Biewer Terrier CLub of AMerica website for a while, disappeared last time I checked.
There is no such colour as a gold born yorkie pup. I have seen pictures of alleged pb gold born and they do not look at all like purebreds.
A gold mature yorkie can result from colour running gold where the gold furnishings have run into the blue covering the blue. Buit if you cut down the coat, you can see the blue pattern. It would considered to be pet quality, not something to be used in a breeding program.
Chocolate colour yorkies are a result of two recessive genes. There have been certain health issues mostly skin problems but not really something you can 't live with as far as I know. I don't know what kind of longevity for a life spand has been noted in a Chocolate yorkie.
Understanding the world of purebred dogs and understanding breed standards, working with long time reputable show breeders will usually clear up any questions about why a parent Club such as YTCA would not allow 'rare' colours or other anomolies to take over the breed.

Lorraine, I think I read that not All Biewers tested as non yorkies. Some of the lines test differently. Some of the Biewers do not turn gold/tan in the face, they remain black.

I'm also sure that not all lines of partis are pure. As far as I know only one line was DNA'd so I'm sure there are knock-offs out there.

My advice for anyone wanting to purchase a parti, is to make sure you know the line that you are buying from.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

The DNA tests by AKC can only tell you that the parents are, in fact, the parents of that litter. It cant tell you the damage that has been done in the past, before DNa and kennel inspections, by the introduction of other breeds to create the parti gene in Yokries. This is very easy to do. Before there were inspections and Dna testing, it was easy to register any mix as an AKC dog. This was done all the time with bybrs and mills and people out for the $$$. AKC has no choice but to register these odd ball colors.

You are absolutely correct. It also cannot tell you when the piebald gene was introduced. So in examing all the paintings and records from the time period when the yorkie was being established you will see that some of the breeds that were used to extablish the yorkie were spotted with white.

Although it seems that all lines of yorkies go back to Hodderfields Ben, that does not mean that all of today's lines carry the piebald gene.e It could have been dropped from some of the lines.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by fall0317

sickening. the "perfect yorkie" is simply a pigment of their imagination. everyone thinks their yorkie is perfect regardless of color... who cares?

LOL Very well put.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

The biewer terrier has just been proven they are their own breed, they are trying very hard to get AKC to recognize them as their own breed..We just keep hoping one day they will.

Not all of the lines are testing that way. I believe that the true Biewer line is still testing to be yorkie.

Some of the Biewer breeders are trying to establish their own breed. Others still claim they are yorkies.

There are so many different Biewer clubs, it is hard to keep them straight.

[Pinehaven]

Jeanie

Where'd everyone go ... musta been something we said????

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Not all of the lines are testing that way. I believe that the true Biewer line is still testing to be yorkie.

Some of the Biewer breeders are trying to establish their own breed. Others still claim they are yorkies.

There are so many different Biewer clubs, it is hard to keep them straight.

go to this site.. Biewer Terrier Club of America, Inc. if you go to the bottom, watch the little zoo tube video..
By the way, the little girl on that video is now, my littel baby

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Jeanie

Where'd everyone go ... musta been something we said????

Probably a bunch of people tired of having the same argument over and over again.