designer pups...???

[YorkichonBella]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Well then to clarify MY own words....it's not the dogs I "hate," it's the practice of purposely mixing the two breeds that I do not agree with.



Again...I do not think the two issues are even remotely comparable to one another. The situations are not the same, IMO.

I, of course, realize it's the practice & not the dogs. You are evading the question for some reason? Why are they not comparable? The YTCA compared the designer breed & the parti yorkies as the new rage. Do you think the practice of breeding parti colored yorkies is ok?

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Here's an interesting, short article on the subject....don't know the author.

Much Ado About Poo
Are Cock-a-poo's, Peke-a-poo's and the other poo dogs real breeds?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Rare!” “Exotic!” “One of a Kind!” “Luxury on a Leash!” proclaim the ads in the Sunday pet classifieds. “Get the best of both worlds!” “Registered New Breed!” “Special Price - this week only - $599!”

Curious? Who wouldn't be? Almost everyone wants something different, unusual, something new and exciting, something no one else has. What are these unique, exciting dogs with funny names and high price tags?

Meet the Poo's: Yorkie-Poo's, Cock-a-Poo's, Lhasa-Poo's, Beag-A-Poo's, Peke-A-Poo's, Pom-Poo's, Doxie-Poo's and Terri-Poo's, just to name a few. Meet their cousins, the Cocker-Chons and the Bi-Tzu. This large and incredibly diverse family of dogs includes such “breeds” as Cock-a-Shels and Malt-oodles; everything from the imposing Rott-a-Dor down to the diminutive Peke-A-Pom and Yorki-Huahua. What do these dogs with the whimsical breed names have in common? The fact that they're not real breeds at all. They're mongrels — mixed breeds — masquerading as something glamorous, valuable and highly desirable. Yorkie-Poo's are simply Yorkshire Terriers crossed with Poodles. A Bi-Tzu is a Bichon Frise/Shih Tzu mix. Cock-a-Shels result when Cocker Spaniels are bred to Shelties (Shetland Sheepdogs) and Rott-A-Dors occur when a Rottweiler and a Labrador Retriever join forces. New breeds? Hardly. Behind the hype and the clever name is a common mutt.

Have you ever looked at a Basset Hound and a Poodle or a similarly mis-matched combination and wondered what the puppies would look like if the two were mated? Lots of us have. It makes for an entertaining exercise in imagination. But the people deliberately breeding “Peke-A-Poms” (a cross between a Pekingese and a Pomeranian) and other such fanciful mixes have taken the “what if?” game a step further. Rather than playing games with their imagination, they're playing games with living creatures, charging big prices for their results and telling some pretty tall tales to justify it. Here are some of them:

“We're making a new breed. The AKC is going to recognize the Cocker-Poo real soon now.”
The process of creating a new breed and achieving AKC recognition is long and involved, requiring many years and many generations. A “breed” is a genetically similar strain of dogs that resemble each other in appearance and temperament. Bred together, two dogs of the same breed will produce puppies that are also similar in appearance to the parents and will develop in a predictable fashion.

The first step in creating a new breed involves a definite vision of what the breed will look like and the writing of a breed standard to describe it. For example, what characteristics must a Yorkie-Poo have in order for it to be considered a Yorkie-Poo? What is a Cocker-Chon or a Peke-A-Pom supposed to look and act like? To date, no breeders of these “new” breeds have even taken that first step.(see note) There has been no agreement among breeders even as to what a Yorkie-Poo is supposed to be other than a cross between a Yorkshire Terrier and a Poodle. After years of mixing these breeds, no two Yorkie-Poos look anything alike; neither are any Peke-A-Poms or Cocker-Chons similar to one another. There has not been any serious effort at all to create a distinct breed that the AKC would recognize.

“We're combining the best of both breeds into one! Shelties shed but Poodles don't. A Shelti-Poo will look like a Sheltie but not shed.”
Not exactly. Genetics doesn't work that way. Some Shelti-Poos might fit this description but many won't. A breeder can't pick and choose what features will be passed on from each breed — it's strictly a matter of luck because the genetic combinations involved in the crossing of breeds is random and unpredictable. There is just as much of a chance that the puppy will grow up to have the worst characteristics of both breeds! The selection of certain traits is achieved only by generations of careful breeding, discarding dogs that don't have the desired qualities and narrowing the gene pool until the right combinations occur with regularity.

“These Beag-A-Poos are registered with the 'Dogs International Kennel Club'.”
The word “registered” has a magical effect on people. They seem to think something that's “registered” must be legitimate and valuable. Not so! “Registered” is no more an indication that a dog's breed is legitimate any more than it implies the dog has quality or value. “Registered” simply means “recorded.” Someone has a paid a fee to an agency to record his dog's name in a book and the agency has sent him a certificate saying they did so. There are many canine registries in business today that will register any kind of dog whether it's purebred, mixed breed or even of unknown origin.

The two most long-standing and reputable canine registries are the American Kennel Club and the United Kennel Club. Neither registers mixed breed dogs or dogs of unknown parentage. AMBOR, the American Mixed Breed Obedience Registry, is a reputable organization that registers mixed breeds but only for the purpose of competing in the obedience trials it sponsors.

“The price is so high because they're one of a kind.”
One of a kind — yes, that's certainly true! Every mixed breed dog, whether bred deliberately or by accident, is one of a kind because its genetic makeup is an unpredictable jumble of characteristics. No two are alike. Does this factor alone justify a high price, higher than what's charged by many reputable breeders of quality purebreds? No way. If “one of a kind” made a dog valuable, every mixed breed dog at the pound would be worth a fortune!

“We have been responsible breeders of Bass-A-Poos for four years.”
The term “responsible” is getting a lot of mileage these days. Almost every breeder claims to be “responsible.” The dictionary defines responsible as “trustworthy and dependable.” How dependable is a breeder who plays imaginative “what if?” games with his dogs and expects the public to pay for his experiments? How trustworthy is a breeder who deliberately misleads people about the value of a mutt? I think you can answer that question for yourself.

Truly responsible breeders are honest and knowledgeable with a strict code of personal ethics. They care about the puppies they produce and the people who'll buy them. Would a responsible breeder deliberately cross a Basset Hound and a Poodle — dogs with completely different and potentially incompatible physical structures and temperaments? Would they deliberately mix any breeds? No, not when they know the results will be completely unpredictable and that there are already thousands of accidentally-bred mixed breed dogs in need of good homes.

Does this mean that all producers of “Poos” and other mixes are unscrupulous and deceitful? No, many of them are simply ignorant of responsible breeding practices and unaware of what they're really doing. Both the deceitful and the ignorant, though, prey on the ignorance of the public — as long as people don't know the truth about these exotic-sounding dogs, they'll continue to buy them and support this unethical and unnecessary practice.

There's no doubt that mixed breeds like Yorkie-Poos, Malt-oodles, and Bi-Tzus can make wonderful pets. Thousands of people own and love mixed breed dogs of every description. But are these unusual mixes really valuable, unique, “designer dogs”? No, not any more so than the many wonderful mixed breeds available for adoption at the local animal shelter.

Don't be fooled by the whimsical names, the intriguing descriptions, and the high prices! It's just a lot of poo. You can find “designer dogs” of every size, shape, color and personality as close as your local humane society or rescue service and at a far more reasonable cost. Why not visit there first and save a life? You'll be glad you did!

Great article!!! Thanks for posting that!!!

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

Your relatives are mutts? Jimney....mine too...well my in laws.

my stepmother is the same lady in cinderella
someone should have done dna testing before breeding her

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

I think that's very true! No two people will agree completely on anything. Now multiply that by 1000!
Either way, I think this is a great way to discuss this topic, everyone gets a chance to post what their views are and we could build on that.
I would have liked it though if someone answered my questions from my last post. As I have never bred a dog or for that matter had one as a companion (yes I know, I have a sad existence) I wouldn't ever know what the cost of raising a litter would be, and what a "fair" price would be for any dog, whether mixed or purebred.
Oh! And I wanted to comment on the mixed vs purebred at shelters. I just got home from participating in our "Grooming Group" at the shelter. We pretty up our dogs to make them smell and look nicer! Today we had two toy poodles and a purbred westie among all the wonderful dogs there! Now, only one dog did we know for sure was a purebred. The westie was a owner surrender as the owner was shipped off overseas to complete their military service, her we know for a fact is a purebred. The other two are strays we picked up from the street. One had a docked tail which would indicate that at one point in its life it had owners. But that's just a guess. And since it looks like a poodle we put on its card "possible poodle mix" not because it is or it isn't a mix but because we don't know anything about it. If we would put "miniature poodle" and assumed it to be a purebred, then whoever adopted it would hold it to the standard for poodles when it came to temperament, size and color. The adding of the word possible and mix is a safety so that when someone does come and adopt one of the little ones at the shelter, they won't feel like they were being misled when the pup does not act the way they were hoping it would.
As for the health of these puppies, I don't think it's fair to assume that they are all in horrible conditions. Some are owner surrenders and are for the most part, very healthy. Others were taken away from bad owners and to no fault of their own have health problems. Still others grew up with no human interaction as puppies and only need a little TLC to get them to be the great companions the could be!!!
That's not saying I'm against getting a puppy from a breeder. There is a sense of comfort when bringing a puppy home from a caring breeder. The predictability can be usefull to prevent heartache. What if this is your first puppy and you know your allergic? (like me!) A little research can save you a ton of heartache and help you get the little friendly puppy that would best suit your needs. If I had the choice, I would defenitely get one from a breeder. But I'd also like to rescue, I don't know if that would be possible for me though.

Just wanted to say that I think that's so great you participated in this. Grooming the dogs give them a much better chance to be adopted. You set a great example!

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by YorkichonBella

I, of course, realize it's the practice & not the dogs. You are evading the question for some reason? Why are they not comparable? The YTCA compared the designer breed & the parti yorkies as the new rage. Do you think the practice of breeding parti colored yorkies is ok?

While I'm sure Bama can answer for herself....perhaps if you read her response on this thread...it'll save her the time. Post #153
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...orkies-11.html

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by YorkichonBella

I, of course, realize it's the practice & not the dogs.

Originally Posted by YorkichonBella

You are straight forward about how you feel about mixed breeds. Quote: "I hate it."

Well I hope you can see why I felt the need to clarify...sorry, but it's a bit confusing and contradicting from post to post...

Originally Posted by YorkichonBella

You are evading the question for some reason? Why are they not comparable? The YTCA compared the designer breed & the parti yorkies as the new rage. Do you think the practice of breeding parti colored yorkies is ok?

I don't evade any question that makes sense. As I already stated--4 times now if I am counting correctly--the issues of crossbreeding and parti yorkies are completely different, IMO. I have different feelings about the two issues so there is no one universal answer or opinion for BOTH issues as far as I'm concerned. If the YTCA compared the designer breed and the parti Yorkie...great? Super? Good for them? I fail to see why you are drawing the conclusion that I neccessarily feel the same way they do on the issue. If you want clarification of their statements, then I would suggest you as a YTCA member to explain them.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

While I'm sure Bama can answer for herself....perhaps if you read her response on this thread...it'll save her the time. Post #153
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...orkies-11.html

Yep, that pretty much sums it up. What I can't figure out is how my opinions on partis or the YTCA's stance on them as compared to "designer breeds" is relevant to the topic of this thread. I can't help but kind of get the feeling that the questions being directed towards me are less to do with the general conversation and more to do with some personal issue, the latter of which I have no interest pursuing. Given the lack of connection to the subject of the thread....

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by cesar49

sorry, but its true.. dogs need things.. unless you are a back yard breeder who keeps dogs in cages outside..think again before becoming a breeder.. i would say 5 years to build up to being able to keep any mopney.. it all goes back into the dogs

I kinda take offense at that remark!! I am not a bybr or a mill. I do have a litter now and then it doesnt cost even a fraction of what you stated. And what I charge and "make" off the litter goes back into the dogs as well. The only time costs would be high is if there is a medical problem. And yes, the start up costs for any breeding program is high, but thats what it is, a start up cost.

[YorkichonBella]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Well I hope you can see why I felt the need to clarify...sorry, but it's a bit confusing and contradicting from post to post...



I don't evade any question that makes sense. As I already stated--4 times now if I am counting correctly--the issues of crossbreeding and parti yorkies are completely different, IMO. I have different feelings about the two issues so there is no one universal answer or opinion for BOTH issues as far as I'm concerned. If the YTCA compared the designer breed and the parti Yorkie...great? Super? Good for them? I fail to see why you are drawing the conclusion that I neccessarily feel the same way they do on the issue. If you want clarification of their statements, then I would suggest you as a YTCA member to explain them.

Actually, I was hoping for clarification that you disagreed with them. I'm guessing, but it seems you think it's ok as long as: If there is a coordinated effort to have a standard set and recognized and eligible to show, then I am all for that.

[YorkichonBella]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Yep, that pretty much sums it up. What I can't figure out is how my opinions on partis or the YTCA's stance on them as compared to "designer breeds" is relevant to the topic of this thread. I can't help but kind of get the feeling that the questions being directed towards me are less to do with the general conversation and more to do with some personal issue, the latter of which I have no interest pursuing. Given the lack of connection to the subject of the thread....

You've got to be kidding

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by cesar49

sorry but you are wrong.. it does cost this much
minimum 1200..

You must be the vets best friend!!! I still dont see how you are coming up with this figure.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by YorkichonBella

Actually, I was hoping for clarification that you disagreed with them. I'm guessing, but it seems you think it's ok as long as: If there is a coordinated effort to have a standard set and recognized and eligible to show, then I am all for that.

As you have quoted word for word how I feel from a previous post, I can assume that my feelings on the matter have now been clarified to your satisfaction?
I think that I also commented in this thread and made exception to a group from Australia breeding 'Labradoodles' that I feel quite differently about given their exceptional efforts with what they are doing.

[jrsygal37]

Originally Posted by durtymydawg

I know I'm going to get a butt chewin' but here goes anyway. This is my ??

What do people in general think about "DESIGNER PUPPIES" ??? I know there are ol' time breeders who hate it and some that like crossing the breeds, but was wondering what in general do people really think....??? I have heard some view points on this and have my own thoughts, but is it really that bad of a thing to do...?

thanks for your input...and remember be kind and civil...

My personal oppinion is that there is no such thing as a "Designer pup or dog." All it is is a mutt that is given a fancy name and a high price tag. Although, I do hate the word mutt and would much prefer calling him or her a mixed up pup With that said let me also say that I have a mixed up pup. She was given the fancy name of Morkie (maltese/yorkie) and priced up at $1800.00. And, some poor fool paid it and later decided she was not what they wanted and placed her for adoption in my local newspaper. This another good point with the "Designer pup." They don't always turn out look wise the way you hoped. You can see 10 of the same mix and yet not any grow up to look the same. Unfortuanltly this leaves so many in rescue or shelters. Which leads me to my speech. PLEASE if you must have that designer pup then PLEASE go through rescue rather then buy. So many are available through rescue. Elaine

[YorkichonBella]

I will end with & reiterate:
Some owners value a dog's pedigree as a status symbol and, therefore, have no use for mixed-breed dogs; others particularly appreciate the physical or behavioral traits of certain breeds; still others ignore pedigree and, instead, value a dog's personality and health.
Local animal shelters adopt out dogs of both purebred and mixed ancestry, emphasizing each dog's personality and suitability as a companion for each potential owner's lifestyle.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I think that I also commented in this thread and made exception to a group from Australia breeding 'Labradoodles' that I feel quite differently about given their exceptional efforts with what they are doing.

Yep...here it is:
I know there are some groups in Australia who have been breeding "Labrodoodles" for decades and have taken great care to to extensive research on the results, have formed a respected breed club and lobby for it to be accepted as it's own breed. THAT I have no problem with.

(Here's their website: Australian Labradoodle organisation)
So clearly, I think there is room for exception and that it is certainly something that *can* be done with noble intentions.