designer pups...???

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by cesar49

until they shut down all the puppy mills, we should all go get a rescue dog
and stop breeding..

Unfortunately, there are just too many people that want a certain breed of dog and they will not go to a rescue or the pound to get one. Its also sad that the majority of these people are not educated about puppy mills before they buy a puppy.

[yorkieisme]

I think everyone has good reasons on why and why not. Some are pretty darn good.......does make you think. Someone posted a video that was done in UK on pedigree dogs. I watched it and I am sure most of you have. It is way long but it holds some interesting facts on pedigree dogs. It seems that crossbred dogs live longer and health care is less in the UK then pedigree dogs. This makes me think even more when it comes to the pedigree dogs and it should everyone. Is it really about the CH'ing in his/her lines or is it about the health of the animal? I personally want a healthy animal, I care nothing about the CH'ing names or how many they have in a 5 generation pedigree. There are two sides to every thing and I am sure show breeders have their side of it, but I am on the side where dogs matter more then the title(s) they carry.

J

[durtymydawg]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I own my own stud dogs so that fee is zero.

Are we starting out new, with health tests on the parents and kennel set up and whelping supplies or are we starting after we have done all of that and this is down the road a bit?

1. Are you considered a REPUTABLE BREEDER? What makes a person reputable? Is it how many dogs you produce or just the fact that you have quality lines and pups?
2. Are your dogs kenneled or indoors and If indoors does that mean your a BYB?
3. How many dogs do you have...ie..bitches vs. studs? What size is your breeding operation?
4. How many litters a year do you produce and what on average is total # of pups a year?
5. What do you sell your pups for?
6. Yes, lets start from ground level....scratch! Lets say I wanted to be a breeder, what do you think I need and what expenses are involved...??

I think in general this is what the few/majority of posters are wondering, that is if they don't raise pups. I personally am not a big time breeder, so I would be catagorized with the BYB's....which sounds like I'm a terrible person with poor quality animals...well that isn't true but anyhow...to each there own!!! I think you can get awesome bloodlines and great quality pups from someone who is running a very small breeding program...such as a BYB. JMO...Please share with us your thoughts on costs, there is so many wanting to know.

[durtymydawg]

Originally Posted by yorkieisme

I think everyone has good reasons on why and why not. Some are pretty darn good.......does make you think. Someone posted a video that was done in UK on pedigree dogs. I watched it and I am sure most of you have. It is way long but it holds some interesting facts on pedigree dogs. It seems that crossbred dogs live longer and health care is less in the UK then pedigree dogs. This makes me think even more when it comes to the pedigree dogs and it should everyone. Is it really about the CH'ing in his/her lines or is it about the health of the animal? I personally want a healthy animal, I care nothing about the CH'ing names or how many they have in a 5 generation pedigree. There are two sides to every thing and I am sure show breeders have their side of it, but I am on the side where dogs matter more then the title(s) they carry.

J

to yorkieisme...I think this is why some people adore the crossbred pup...ie..the designer pup, something that was intentional and unusual...

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by durtymydawg

1. Are you considered a REPUTABLE BREEDER? What makes a person reputable? Is it how many dogs you produce or just the fact that you have quality lines and pups?
2. Are your dogs kenneled or indoors and If indoors does that mean your a BYB?
3. How many dogs do you have...ie..bitches vs. studs? What size is your breeding operation?
4. How many litters a year do you produce and what on average is total # of pups a year?
5. What do you sell your pups for?
6. Yes, lets start from ground level....scratch! Lets say I wanted to be a breeder, what do you think I need and what expenses are involved...??

I think in general this is what the few/majority of posters are wondering, that is if they don't raise pups. I personally am not a big time breeder, so I would be catagorized with the BYB's....which sounds like I'm a terrible person with poor quality animals...well that isn't true but anyhow...to each there own!!! I think you can get awesome bloodlines and great quality pups from someone who is running a very small breeding program...such as a BYB. JMO...Please share with us your thoughts on costs, there is so many wanting to know.

I wouldn't consider you a BYB, maybe a hobby breeder. I like small hobby breeders, this is because I know that all of the pets get attention and can also get the medical care. Most of them also place or keep their adults even after breeding or they spay or neuter them and place them for a very small fee, with a long application to go with them. While you have the byb and puppymills asking high prices and left unaltered to stand the chance to produce more babies.
Again my two cents worth......

[Ladyhawk]

Originally Posted by durtymydawg

1. Are you considered a REPUTABLE BREEDER? What makes a person reputable? Is it how many dogs you produce or just the fact that you have quality lines and pups?
2. Are your dogs kenneled or indoors and If indoors does that mean your a BYB?
3. How many dogs do you have...ie..bitches vs. studs? What size is your breeding operation?
4. How many litters a year do you produce and what on average is total # of pups a year?
5. What do you sell your pups for?
6. Yes, lets start from ground level....scratch! Lets say I wanted to be a breeder, what do you think I need and what expenses are involved...??

I think in general this is what the few/majority of posters are wondering, that is if they don't raise pups. I personally am not a big time breeder, so I would be catagorized with the BYB's....which sounds like I'm a terrible person with poor quality animals...well that isn't true but anyhow...to each there own!!! I think you can get awesome bloodlines and great quality pups from someone who is running a very small breeding program...such as a BYB. JMO...Please share with us your thoughts on costs, there is so many wanting to know.

Has this turned into an interview for Lynn? It's starting to sound like an attack to me. Let's keep the focus where we started, on the term designer dogs.
By the way, the dictionary defines Reputable as one who has a good reputation. I would say that you get a good reputation from treating people fairly and honestly, by doing what you say you will do, and by treating the animals in your care in a humane and caring way. I would also define a BYB as someone who just sticks two pets together to make puppies to fulfill their own desires without the benefit or desire for education.

[Ladyhawk]

Originally Posted by yorkieisme

I wouldn't consider you a BYB, maybe a hobby breeder. I like small hobby breeders, this is because I know that all of the pets get attention and can also get the medical care. Most of them also place or keep their adults even after breeding or they spay or neuter them and place them for a very small fee, with a long application to go with them. While you have the byb and puppymills asking high prices and left unaltered to stand the chance to produce more babies.
Again my two cents worth......

I'm a show breeder and I give my retired,spayed bitches to select individuals so that they can be pampered pets.

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

I'm a show breeder and I give my retired,spayed bitches to select individuals so that they can be pampered pets.

I'm not knocking show breeders.......the question or statement was made about BYB and Puppymills. This is why I did not include show homes. She never said anything about show homes. Getting a show dog for a pet is like me taking my husband to a hospital to get medical care and that is not easy.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

Has this turned into an interview for Lynn? It's starting to sound like an attack to me. Let's keep the focus where we started, on the term designer dogs.

That was kind of what I was thinking too... Not really seeing the connection between the topic and the questioning..
What the "average" litter "cost" and the "expenses" a breeder has vary so much that I don't think there could ever be an accuate account or breakdown. Too many specifics to consider that will differ from person to person.

[LittlePaws]

Originally Posted by durtymydawg

I know I'm going to get a butt chewin' but here goes anyway. This is my ??

What do people in general think about "DESIGNER PUPPIES" ??? I know there are ol' time breeders who hate it and some that like crossing the breeds, but was wondering what in general do people really think....??? I have heard some view points on this and have my own thoughts, but is it really that bad of a thing to do...?

thanks for your input...and remember be kind and civil...

Well, here goes. I bred a beautiful litter of Shih-Tzu/Maltese. They are healthy, smart, calm, everything you could ever want. I did not sell them for huge amount's of money. I sold them for the same price I would have sold a pure bred puppy. It was time for another litter and the request for the same mix was so great that I decided to do the same thing. I have 2 deposits on a litter that is not even born. They are due in October.

As for mixes being in shelters and rescues. I ran a rescue for over 2 years and have done foster care for many years. 90% of the dogs were large breed. My little dogs were adopted within days of coming to me. The only exception was a badly abused girl and a deaf girl. They took a long time but I had to find a special home for them. I once had NINE doxie mix pups. They were all adopted within 7 days of being released for adoption.
I am not saying there are not dogs to be found. My first furbaby was a pound puppy and we had 17 wonderful years together.

I see nothing wrong with rescue's. I see nothing wrong with breeding or buying a mixed breed. I only see a problem when breeders don't watch what they are mixing, or crank out what ever they can as fast as they can to make a quick buck. Being a good breeder takes time, research and love, regardless of what breed or cross breed you have chosen.


I am attaching a pic of one my mixed babies. She is 4 months old in the picture and she and her Mom were just shaved for summer.

[BamaFan121s]

I guess one of my biggest questions is...what is the "goal" of cross breeding? What are those doing it trying to achieve? Is there a long term goal, or just the immediate desire to produce a cute litter of puppies?

[MeganS]

I'm not a breeder, but this is what I'm thinking some mix-breeders are going for.

Maybe they just want to provide people with healthy, happy little dogs. Maybe there is no long term goal as far as making a new breed or whatever - maybe they just want people to have the chance to own such sweet, loveable dogs.

Maybe this is just me being ignorant or something. But I don't understand how the overpopulation of shelters is a reason for cross breeds to not be bred. You will have just as much trouble finding a morkie in a shelter as you would a yorkie - popular breeds do not end up in shelters as much. Instead of getting your next yorkie, why don't you go to a shelter and adopt some mutt? Oh, because you want a yorkie. Why is that only an acceptable answer when it's a purebred?

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by MeganS

Instead of getting your next yorkie, why don't you go to a shelter and adopt some mutt? Oh, because you want a yorkie. Why is that only an acceptable answer when it's a purebred?

Because there is a defined definition of what a Yorkie, or any purebred, "is." You have specific characteristics that you want and (ideally) they come standard with a purebred.
To provide dogs to people who want them, IMO, is not a valid reason for breeding, regardless to the type of dog. There is no 'shortage' of dogs.

(And Megan, you are NOT being ignorant...you just have an opinion, just like everyone else.)

[LittlePaws]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I guess one of my biggest questions is...what is the "goal" of cross breeding? What are those doing it trying to achieve? Is there a long term goal, or just the immediate desire to produce a cute litter of puppies?

The plan for many is to breed healthy happy well socialized babies. The goal for any breeder is to find their own long term goal. Pure bred dogs are a mythical figure of perfection and each breeder strives to achieve that goal.

It is important in a cross breed: To use the best parents just as you would for a pure bred. You don't do any less just because they are a cross. I think that is the danger. Low quality dogs making low quality puppies. Mine come from 2 AKC parents. It took me 6 months to choose my female Shih-tzu. It took me a year to find the right stud. I am very happy with the resulting puppies.

[BamaFan121s]

Thank you for being willing to answer/discuss honestly and civiliy.

Originally Posted by LittlePaws

The plan for many is to breed healthy happy well socialized babies.

That's it? Just so long as the dog is healthy? That's all that matters? What if someone was going to start producing 12 pound Yorkies with floppy ears, bad coats, underbites and incorrect coloring. Would that be acceptable, so long as they are perfectly healthy?

Originally Posted by LittlePaws

The goal for any breeder is to find their own long term goal.

True, but my point is, I have yet to run accross a breeder of crossbred dogs that has one. Just breeding happy, healthy dogs out of the breeding pair you happen to have because that is what people want in the current moment, IMO, is not a "long term goal."

Originally Posted by LittlePaws

Pure bred dogs are a mythical figure of perfection and each breeder strives to achieve that goal.

This is SO true! If all the pure bred dogs were 'perfect' in every since of the word...that would make breeding SO easy.

Originally Posted by LittlePaws

It is important in a cross breed: To use the best parents just as you would for a pure bred.

"Best Parents" in what aspect? Best in health? Temperament? Standard? Which ones would truly matter? Which ones would be lost and insignificant if the goal is not to produce the same breed? How do you determine what the "right" pair and "right" match for breeding is?


I very much agree with you on one issue...poor quality dogs being used in breeding programs is definately where alot of the serious issues we see these days is coming from. That is not something that is limited to either form of breeding.