designer pups...???

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I kinda take offense at that remark!! I am not a bybr or a mill. I do have a litter now and then it doesnt cost even a fraction of what you stated. And what I charge and "make" off the litter goes back into the dogs as well. The only time costs would be high is if there is a medical problem. And yes, the start up costs for any breeding program is high, but thats what it is, a start up cost.

and the start up costs come out of my pocket..

[C C Kent]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

I would have liked it though if someone answered my questions from my last post. As I have never bred a dog or for that matter had one as a companion (yes I know, I have a sad existence) I wouldn't ever know what the cost of raising a litter would be, and what a "fair" price would be for any dog, whether mixed or purebred.

The market decides how much a puppy is worth. It has little to do with the actual cost of raising the puppy. This is why puppymillers cut the cost by mistreating their animals. It's not that they hate the animals, they'll tell you they have no choice since "Pups just ain't braingin' what they used too."

If you have good pedigrees and a good reputation, coupled with a strong working knowledge of the breed and how to produce a beautiful mature specimen....that's one thing.

If you have pet quality breeders, your knowledge is more geared towards saving a puppy that might die, and you have never seen what one of your puppies looks like when it's grown.....that's something else.

You have the haircut and style your mom can give you, with high hopes and the best of intentions, and you have the one you get from the accomplished well known stylist. One will cost you more than the other. Both will leave you looking different. Neither will last fifteen years.

I hope that is something close to what you're looking for.

[MyTrixie143]

I think the point is, some will be alright with it while others won't. We will never all agree on everything.

I myself will probably never get a mixed breed from a shelter but a breeder only. Why? Atleast with a breeder you know more about the dog's health and temperament. Every dog we have gotten from the shelter has had either health or behavior issues. I am glad many like to rescue and very grateful to them that they do it, but it isn't for everyone.
I love Daisy to death and I am so glad we saved her life and gave her a great home. But we have constantly had to deal with her health and behavior issues.
On the other hand, I have NOT once gotten a dog (mixed or purebred) from a good breeder that has ended up with health or behavior issues. That is why I will always go with a good responsible breeder not a shelter whether it be purebred or mixed.
Again this has been our personal experience. Rescuing is great for some but not everyone. So to tell everyone that if they want a mix they should only go to a shelter, that wouldn't be right.

Again I would like to state that I do NOT approve of labeling them as designer dogs but a crossbreed instead. I also don't approve of charging a high price for them either. And I don't approve of the breeder who breed mixes doing no research on their dogs and not taking responsibility for their puppies and where they go.

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by cesar49

What I do not like about designer breeds is the puppy miller end of it.
That there are people out making money saying this mutts a doodle doo or a shiz poop or what ever are papered and show able. THAT IS WRONG.
Plus no mixed breed should cost anywhere near a pure breed and show dog.
They are mutts....

JL

i will try not to take offense.. but my mixes are not mutts..
all my human relatives are though...
mixes are worth more in some cases..
the problem is the puppy mills..
Puppy mills are a crime against all dogs..
why isnt there a federal law to protect them?
i think capitol punishment should be the just
and fair punishment for puppy mill owners
or lynching.. or death by fire ants

HAHA this is so funny..... I think my sister is also considered a "mutt".

[KimberlySRN]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Here's an interesting, short article on the subject....don't know the author.

Much Ado About Poo
Are Cock-a-poo's, Peke-a-poo's and the other poo dogs real breeds?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Rare!” “Exotic!” “One of a Kind!” “Luxury on a Leash!” proclaim the ads in the Sunday pet classifieds. “Get the best of both worlds!” “Registered New Breed!” “Special Price - this week only - $599!”

Curious? Who wouldn't be? Almost everyone wants something different, unusual, something new and exciting, something no one else has. What are these unique, exciting dogs with funny names and high price tags?

Meet the Poo's: Yorkie-Poo's, Cock-a-Poo's, Lhasa-Poo's, Beag-A-Poo's, Peke-A-Poo's, Pom-Poo's, Doxie-Poo's and Terri-Poo's, just to name a few. Meet their cousins, the Cocker-Chons and the Bi-Tzu. This large and incredibly diverse family of dogs includes such “breeds” as Cock-a-Shels and Malt-oodles; everything from the imposing Rott-a-Dor down to the diminutive Peke-A-Pom and Yorki-Huahua. What do these dogs with the whimsical breed names have in common? The fact that they're not real breeds at all. They're mongrels — mixed breeds — masquerading as something glamorous, valuable and highly desirable. Yorkie-Poo's are simply Yorkshire Terriers crossed with Poodles. A Bi-Tzu is a Bichon Frise/Shih Tzu mix. Cock-a-Shels result when Cocker Spaniels are bred to Shelties (Shetland Sheepdogs) and Rott-A-Dors occur when a Rottweiler and a Labrador Retriever join forces. New breeds? Hardly. Behind the hype and the clever name is a common mutt.

Have you ever looked at a Basset Hound and a Poodle or a similarly mis-matched combination and wondered what the puppies would look like if the two were mated? Lots of us have. It makes for an entertaining exercise in imagination. But the people deliberately breeding “Peke-A-Poms” (a cross between a Pekingese and a Pomeranian) and other such fanciful mixes have taken the “what if?” game a step further. Rather than playing games with their imagination, they're playing games with living creatures, charging big prices for their results and telling some pretty tall tales to justify it. Here are some of them:

“We're making a new breed. The AKC is going to recognize the Cocker-Poo real soon now.”
The process of creating a new breed and achieving AKC recognition is long and involved, requiring many years and many generations. A “breed” is a genetically similar strain of dogs that resemble each other in appearance and temperament. Bred together, two dogs of the same breed will produce puppies that are also similar in appearance to the parents and will develop in a predictable fashion.

The first step in creating a new breed involves a definite vision of what the breed will look like and the writing of a breed standard to describe it. For example, what characteristics must a Yorkie-Poo have in order for it to be considered a Yorkie-Poo? What is a Cocker-Chon or a Peke-A-Pom supposed to look and act like? To date, no breeders of these “new” breeds have even taken that first step.(see note) There has been no agreement among breeders even as to what a Yorkie-Poo is supposed to be other than a cross between a Yorkshire Terrier and a Poodle. After years of mixing these breeds, no two Yorkie-Poos look anything alike; neither are any Peke-A-Poms or Cocker-Chons similar to one another. There has not been any serious effort at all to create a distinct breed that the AKC would recognize.

“We're combining the best of both breeds into one! Shelties shed but Poodles don't. A Shelti-Poo will look like a Sheltie but not shed.”
Not exactly. Genetics doesn't work that way. Some Shelti-Poos might fit this description but many won't. A breeder can't pick and choose what features will be passed on from each breed — it's strictly a matter of luck because the genetic combinations involved in the crossing of breeds is random and unpredictable. There is just as much of a chance that the puppy will grow up to have the worst characteristics of both breeds! The selection of certain traits is achieved only by generations of careful breeding, discarding dogs that don't have the desired qualities and narrowing the gene pool until the right combinations occur with regularity.

“These Beag-A-Poos are registered with the 'Dogs International Kennel Club'.”
The word “registered” has a magical effect on people. They seem to think something that's “registered” must be legitimate and valuable. Not so! “Registered” is no more an indication that a dog's breed is legitimate any more than it implies the dog has quality or value. “Registered” simply means “recorded.” Someone has a paid a fee to an agency to record his dog's name in a book and the agency has sent him a certificate saying they did so. There are many canine registries in business today that will register any kind of dog whether it's purebred, mixed breed or even of unknown origin.

The two most long-standing and reputable canine registries are the American Kennel Club and the United Kennel Club. Neither registers mixed breed dogs or dogs of unknown parentage. AMBOR, the American Mixed Breed Obedience Registry, is a reputable organization that registers mixed breeds but only for the purpose of competing in the obedience trials it sponsors.

“The price is so high because they're one of a kind.”
One of a kind — yes, that's certainly true! Every mixed breed dog, whether bred deliberately or by accident, is one of a kind because its genetic makeup is an unpredictable jumble of characteristics. No two are alike. Does this factor alone justify a high price, higher than what's charged by many reputable breeders of quality purebreds? No way. If “one of a kind” made a dog valuable, every mixed breed dog at the pound would be worth a fortune!

“We have been responsible breeders of Bass-A-Poos for four years.”
The term “responsible” is getting a lot of mileage these days. Almost every breeder claims to be “responsible.” The dictionary defines responsible as “trustworthy and dependable.” How dependable is a breeder who plays imaginative “what if?” games with his dogs and expects the public to pay for his experiments? How trustworthy is a breeder who deliberately misleads people about the value of a mutt? I think you can answer that question for yourself.

Truly responsible breeders are honest and knowledgeable with a strict code of personal ethics. They care about the puppies they produce and the people who'll buy them. Would a responsible breeder deliberately cross a Basset Hound and a Poodle — dogs with completely different and potentially incompatible physical structures and temperaments? Would they deliberately mix any breeds? No, not when they know the results will be completely unpredictable and that there are already thousands of accidentally-bred mixed breed dogs in need of good homes.

Does this mean that all producers of “Poos” and other mixes are unscrupulous and deceitful? No, many of them are simply ignorant of responsible breeding practices and unaware of what they're really doing. Both the deceitful and the ignorant, though, prey on the ignorance of the public — as long as people don't know the truth about these exotic-sounding dogs, they'll continue to buy them and support this unethical and unnecessary practice.

There's no doubt that mixed breeds like Yorkie-Poos, Malt-oodles, and Bi-Tzus can make wonderful pets. Thousands of people own and love mixed breed dogs of every description. But are these unusual mixes really valuable, unique, “designer dogs”? No, not any more so than the many wonderful mixed breeds available for adoption at the local animal shelter.

Don't be fooled by the whimsical names, the intriguing descriptions, and the high prices! It's just a lot of poo. You can find “designer dogs” of every size, shape, color and personality as close as your local humane society or rescue service and at a far more reasonable cost. Why not visit there first and save a life? You'll be glad you did!

Good posting.

I don't think anyone is saying they hate crossbreeds, just that they don't agree with crossbreeding in general.

We are all going to have different opinions, and we should all respect one another as we are all entitled to our own opinions. Opinions is what was asked for, I don't think taking things out of context is adding anything to the thread. We may feel strong about a certain view point but telling someone they are just flat out wrong is not looking at the subject from both sides. Stating your opinion is one thing, even bring up points showing why you feel a certain point is one thing, but remember as one person said, it is for the love of the dogs we each feel a certain way. (and why it comes across so strongly)

[The_Lucky_Charm]

Originally Posted by durtymydawg

??? Does this person breed dogs? If so, then instead of selling them, just give them away being its not about $$$. And, If not then just sell them for what you have into them...actual cost of raising the litter divided by # of pups to equal the sale price....JMO...more food to chew.

It goes back to people selling their animals for what they feel they are worth...or atleast a fair price.

No, I don't breed dogs but I've known actual responsible breeders. It costs them THOUSANDS of dollars not only to MAKE the litter, but to care for all the dogs they own, all the supplies they bought, all the vet care, all the food, all the special prenatal care, AND THEN the puppies themselves.

NO reputable breeder makes money off of dogs. If they're lucky, they break even. Good breeders only breed for the love of the breed. And "designer dogs" are MIXED BREEDS. The are UNPREDICTABLE and NONE of the greeders can breed to preserve the breed.

Plus, don't you know how dangerous it is to give away "free" dogs? They are prone to impulse takers and negligent homes-this isn't always the case, but responsible breeders don't take chances. Here's a good story for you:
Wisconsin Puppy Mill Project, Inc.: Why we ask that you not give pets away Free To Good Home

[The_Lucky_Charm]

Originally Posted by cesar49

sorry, but its true.. dogs need things.. unless you are a back yard breeder who keeps dogs in cages outside..think again before becoming a breeder.. i would say 5 years to build up to being able to keep any mopney.. it all goes back into the dogs

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by cesar49

and the start up costs come out of my pocket..

I re-read you other post and my bad, I read it wrong. Im sorry. YOu are corrrect that if you want to become a breeder that you do need quite alot of funding just to get started. Also, each litter is different, so one litter may cost more than another to raise.

[durtymydawg]

Originally Posted by durtymydawg
??? Does this person breed dogs? If so, then instead of selling them, just give them away being its not about $$$. And, If not then just sell them for what you have into them...actual cost of raising the litter divided by # of pups to equal the sale price....JMO...more food to chew.

It goes back to people selling their animals for what they feel they are worth...or atleast a fair price.

No, I don't breed dogs but I've known actual responsible breeders. It costs them THOUSANDS of dollars not only to MAKE the litter, but to care for all the dogs they own, all the supplies they bought, all the vet care, all the food, all the special prenatal care, AND THEN the puppies themselves.

NO reputable breeder makes money off of dogs. If they're lucky, they break even. Good breeders only breed for the love of the breed. And "designer dogs" are MIXED BREEDS. The are UNPREDICTABLE and NONE of the greeders can breed to preserve the breed.

Plus, don't you know how dangerous it is to give away "free" dogs? They are prone to impulse takers and negligent homes-this isn't always the case, but responsible breeders don't take chances. Here's a good story for you:

I started to respond but have changed my mind not to. I didn't say to give them away for free! Also, I don't believe some of your comments. JMO, sorry. (I know I'm going to get hung on this one) Maybe they need to raise their prices ?

Good breeders only breed for the love of the breed. So does that mean they breed for the fun or enjoyment of raising a litter?

[durtymydawg]

I happen to agree with you on the cost of raising a litter of puppies...If people are including the costs of your breeding animals, then of course your first litter may not make any $$, but eventually you would make some $$. I would like to see some reputable breeder put together there so-called COSTS of a litter on the basis of 4pups in that litter, not including the costs of the parents, unless you don't own the stud.

[durtymydawg]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I kinda take offense at that remark!! I am not a bybr or a mill. I do have a litter now and then it doesnt cost even a fraction of what you stated. And what I charge and "make" off the litter goes back into the dogs as well. The only time costs would be high is if there is a medical problem. And yes, the start up costs for any breeding program is high, but thats what it is, a start up cost.

I'm new at this posting thing...so I screwed up the last post and wanted to include the above previous quote....

I agree with you. Why don't someone list what it costs them to raise a litter of say 3 pups of yorkies? I'm sure it doesn't cost them no $1200 each pup. JMO.

[durtymydawg]

To TXSHOPPER73....I think your avatar is very cute...which one of your furbabies is it??

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I re-read you other post and my bad, I read it wrong. Im sorry. YOu are corrrect that if you want to become a breeder that you do need quite alot of funding just to get started. Also, each litter is different, so one litter may cost more than another to raise.

until they shut down all the puppy mills, we should all go get a rescue dog
and stop breeding..

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by durtymydawg

I happen to agree with you on the cost of raising a litter of puppies...If people are including the costs of your breeding animals, then of course your first litter may not make any $$, but eventually you would make some $$. I would like to see some reputable breeder put together there so-called COSTS of a litter on the basis of 4pups in that litter, not including the costs of the parents, unless you don't own the stud.

I'm curious to find this out too. If someone would be willing to share that info with us I that would greatly be appreciated!

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by durtymydawg

I happen to agree with you on the cost of raising a litter of puppies...If people are including the costs of your breeding animals, then of course your first litter may not make any $$, but eventually you would make some $$. I would like to see some reputable breeder put together there so-called COSTS of a litter on the basis of 4pups in that litter, not including the costs of the parents, unless you don't own the stud.

I own my own stud dogs so that fee is zero.

Are we starting out new, with health tests on the parents and kennel set up and whelping supplies or are we starting after we have done all of that and this is down the road a bit?