designer pups...???

[LittlePaws]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Thank you for being willing to answer/discuss honestly and civiliy.


That's it? Just so long as the dog is healthy? That's all that matters? What if someone was going to start producing 12 pound Yorkies with floppy ears, bad coats, underbites and incorrect coloring. Would that be acceptable, so long as they are perfectly healthy?




True, but my point is, I have yet to run accross a breeder of crossbred dogs that has one. Just breeding happy, healthy dogs out of the breeding pair you happen to have because that is what people want in the current moment, IMO, is not a "long term goal."



This is SO true! If all the pure bred dogs were 'perfect' in every since of the word...that would make breeding SO easy.


"Best Parents" in what aspect? Best in health? Temperament? Standard? Which ones would truly matter? Which ones would be lost and insignificant if the goal is not to produce the same breed? How do you determine what the "right" pair and "right" match for breeding is?


I very much agree with you on one issue...poor quality dogs being used in breeding programs is definately where alot of the serious issues we see these days is coming from. That is not something that is limited to either form of breeding.

Your welcome. I am very proud of my dogs and my babies. We may not agree but I always value the opinions of others.

#1. No. It is not all that matters but health is the most important for ANY breeder I would hope.

#2 I do not foot the bill of just using the "pair" I have. I only have females.
I paid a very nice sum for the stud fee. He was carefully selected.
As for what people want... All puppies need a forever home.

next, "Best Parents" in what aspect? See next questions. Best in health? YES. Temperament? YES. Standard? By selecting for health and temperament first size and color would be next. Avoiding poor quality dogs on EITHER side.

Which ones would truly matter? Which ones would be lost and insignificant if the goal is not to produce the same breed? How do you determine what the "right" pair and "right" match for breeding is?


I would not cross breed two dogs that were say, one very timid and one very bold.
The maltese and shih-tzu share a good many things. They are bold, loyal, known for being smart and very sweet. Both have beautiful floor length coats and both breeds have undercoats.
These are a few reasons I made the choice I did.

[YorkichonBella]

Originally Posted by Chrissy0277

Well it seems to me the only ones who agree with the mixing of dogs are the ones who own them (bought them) or are the ones who breed them.

They are indeed mutts and like others said no thats not a BAD word.
If it walks like a duck......

It seems to give you great satisfaction to label them this way? That's ok, because if you own a purebreed, then it also originated from a mutt. Also noticed you were quite upset with grooming one in particular and a lady that owned one with her remark. We can certainly all have differences of opinion, that's ok. Those of us who cherish our babies who are bred from 2 different parents of purebreeds certainly with all our heart, hope & pray that they are all treated equally with the same amount of Love & Attention. Thank you YT friend.

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by Chrissy0277

Well it seems to me the only ones who agree with the mixing of dogs are the ones who own them (bought them) or are the ones who breed them.

They are indeed mutts and like others said no thats not a BAD word.
If it walks like a duck......

you are right about that chrissy.. you must be very proud of your beautiful purebreeds..
only the mixers would agree.. those that have and breed purebred yorkies do not like mixes and believe they are the only ones doing the right thing..
the purebreeds can be a little snobby about mixing.. as if they are better than the cute mutts we love..
but we know better.. cuz all the mutt people love to breed mutts..
as long as you are reputable.. and love all the animals you bring into this world.. all the babies produced are the responsibility of the breeders..
purebreeds are wonderful.. but so are some mixes..
it is still the puppymillers who need to be attacked.. not the dog lovers..

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by LittlePaws

Your welcome. I am very proud of my dogs and my babies. We may not agree but I always value the opinions of others.

#1. No. It is not all that matters but health is the most important for ANY breeder I would hope.

#2 I do not foot the bill of just using the "pair" I have. I only have females.
I paid a very nice sum for the stud fee. He was carefully selected.
As for what people want... All puppies need a forever home.

next, "Best Parents" in what aspect? See next questions. Best in health? YES. Temperament? YES. Standard? By selecting for health and temperament first size and color would be next. Avoiding poor quality dogs on EITHER side.

Which ones would truly matter? Which ones would be lost and insignificant if the goal is not to produce the same breed? How do you determine what the "right" pair and "right" match for breeding is?


I would not cross breed two dogs that were say, one very timid and one very bold.
The maltese and shih-tzu share a good many things. They are bold, loyal, known for being smart and very sweet. Both have beautiful floor length coats and both breeds have undercoats.
These are a few reasons I made the choice I did.

By selecting color, is there a certain color combo you are trying to achieve? Is there a certain "look" you are trying to achieve and how to you determine it? It seems as if it would be impossible to predict.
How will your efforts exceed only this particular generation? What is the long term or does it start and stop with this generation?

How do you ensure that the breed specific issue of one breed will not be carried over to the next? Or that an undesired trait will not 'double up' in the offspring.
I.e, I *think* that Maltese are prone to eye infections and specific disorders. Would crossing one with a breed with a more protruding eye not increase this risk? Also, both breeds are prone to age progressive disorders...would combining the two create more or less risk of that?
Also, as Shih-Tzus are a brachiocephalic breed, their respiratory systems work on a slower pace. How can you ensure that you do not end up with offspring that aquire the brachio traits, but without the compromised respiratory system?

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by LittlePaws

Your welcome. I am very proud of my dogs and my babies. We may not agree but I always value the opinions of others.

I would hope EVERYONE would be proud of their pooches. And you are right. We don't always have to agree, but I enjoy finding people of opposing views that are open to sharing their opinions. Just because people may not agree and ask questions doesn't mean that they are trying to belittle or attack someone.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by cesar49

those that have and breed purebred yorkies do not like mixes and believe they are the only ones doing the right thing..
the purebreeds can be a little snobby about mixing.. as if they are better than the cute mutts we love..

IMO, that is a very unfair and inaccurate statement to make! I own purebreds but that does NOT mean that I'm 'snobby' and don't like all other dogs! IMO, it's very wrong to make a blanket statment like that as if it applies to everyone. I would never consider any one dog to be 'lesser' than the next just because of the breed or combination of breeds they are. (Except maybe one dog in particular that I happen to think is the spawn of Satan.)

[durtymydawg]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

Has this turned into an interview for Lynn? It's starting to sound like an attack to me. Let's keep the focus where we started, on the term designer dogs.
By the way, the dictionary defines Reputable as one who has a good reputation. I would say that you get a good reputation from treating people fairly and honestly, by doing what you say you will do, and by treating the animals in your care in a humane and caring way. I would also define a BYB as someone who just sticks two pets together to make puppies to fulfill their own desires without the benefit or desire for education.

Tami, I wasn't attacking anyone...I was simply asking just like everyone else, some people would like to see what a breeder thinks or actually is the cost of producing a litter is...?? The simple answer is that no one is willing to give that answer being it would show that they make $$$. They will use the excuse that there is to many variables, then just give us one scenario...please its not that hard. NO OFFENSE LYNN....

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by durtymydawg

The simple answer is that no one is willing to give that answer being it would show that they make $$$.

I can't speak for everyone, only for myself, but I will say that I miss a week of work minimum with a litter. That alone, without even considering any other costs incurred pretty much kills any hope I would ever have of profiting or breaking even on a litter. Even if someone were to list to the penny what they spend and what they see in return, would it really be acceptable by everyone? (Or better yet, is any aspect of on person's finances really anyone's business?)

I'm sure it's quite possible to make a profit off of the sale of pups if you charge an arm and a leg for them and manage to get it.

[KimberlySRN]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

IMO, that is a very unfair and inaccurate statement to make! I own purebreds but that does NOT mean that I'm 'snobby' and don't like all other dogs! IMO, it's very wrong to make a blanket statment like that as if it applies to everyone. I would never consider any one dog to be 'lesser' than the next just because of the breed or combination of breeds they are. (Except maybe one dog in particular that I happen to think is the spawn of Satan.)

I agree. I think many of the people that have stated they disagreed with crossbreeding have also said it was nothing against the pups being brought into this world.
I love all dogs, I don't care what they are made of, just like people. But more than anything I am trying to understand why a person would mix breeds. I am a person that likes to see both sides of the story and like to put myself in others shoes, and then come to a logical conclusion.
Most of the reasons I have heard are because people want them (supply and demand? sounds more like because people will buy them), getting a certain trait (which I would say okay to if it was a dedicated breeding program with a common goal and written out standard to abide by. Many people started because they wanted to create a dog for people prone to allergies, this is a good idea but how dedicated are they?)

I don't think people are trying to say purebreds are higher then mix\cross breeding , I think we are simply trying to understand the logic behind it. (At least I am )
(Please don't assume that because people have similar ideas that we "all" agree with what is being said on that particular side. )

[durtymydawg]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I can't speak for everyone, only for myself, but I will say that I miss a week of work minimum with a litter. That alone, without even considering any other costs incurred pretty much kills any hope I would ever have of profiting or breaking even on a litter. Even if someone were to list to the penny what they spend and what they see in return, would it really be acceptable by everyone?

I'm sure it's quite possible to make a profit off of the sale of pups if you charge an arm and a leg for them and manage to get it.

So with that said then there is ways to make some $$ in breeding pups, such as if you wasn't a huge show breeder as illustrated in another post (which I thankyou for sharing and sounds like you really enjoy your hobby/business/passion), or if you didn't spend lavishly (no offense to anyone) on all the extras that some people buy or if you increased the sale price of your pups....then I guess its possible to make $$.

I agree as far as.....(Or better yet, is any aspect of on person's finances really anyone's business?)

?? So what is a fair price to sell a yorkie pup or to buy one? Whats a fair price for a Champion sired/dam pup? Just curious.

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by YorkichonBella

It seems to give you great satisfaction to label them this way? That's ok, because if you own a purebreed, then it also originated from a mutt. Also noticed you were quite upset with grooming one in particular and a lady that owned one with her remark. We can certainly all have differences of opinion, that's ok. Those of us who cherish our babies who are bred from 2 different parents of purebreeds certainly with all our heart, hope & pray that they are all treated equally with the same amount of Love & Attention. Thank you YT friend.

chrissy has her opinion..
everyone is different..
i knew nothing about breeding 3 years ago when i got lucy and gidget
sisters from a good breeder...but i wanted to breed them from the start..
studded twice by my mentor breeder... all AKC...she suggested that i only have females for a while... so starting with 2 females worked very good for me..
but 3 years later, i just got a stud dog..
never been to a dog show.. and i love the yorkipoo breed..
i got my dogs as pets with the intention of learning..
i have learned a lot...but i am STILL LEARNING..
we should all have an open mind about mixes like yorkipoos
because they are very popular.. at least in my house..

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by durtymydawg

So with that said then there is ways to make some $$ in breeding pups, such as if you wasn't a huge show breeder as illustrated in another post (which I thankyou for sharing and sounds like you really enjoy your hobby/business/passion), or if you didn't spend lavishly (no offense to anyone) on all the extras that some people buy or if you increased the sale price of your pups....then I guess its possible to make $$.

I agree as far as.....(Or better yet, is any aspect of on person's finances really anyone's business?)

?? So what is a fair price to sell a yorkie pup or to buy one? Whats a fair price for a Champion sired/dam pup? Just curious.

i paid 850 each for my 2 females and stud fees were 250
900 for my stud
it takes 4 years to make any money back.. but possibly worth the wait?
it is a building process and committment to learning. is this your passion ?
constructive criticism is beneficial..
mixes or purebreeds are all worth the same ammount of money
in my opinion

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

By selecting color, is there a certain color combo you are trying to achieve? Is there a certain "look" you are trying to achieve and how to you determine it? It seems as if it would be impossible to predict.
How will your efforts exceed only this particular generation? What is the long term or does it start and stop with this generation?

How do you ensure that the breed specific issue of one breed will not be carried over to the next? Or that an undesired trait will not 'double up' in the offspring.
I.e, I *think* that Maltese are prone to eye infections and specific disorders. Would crossing one with a breed with a more protruding eye not increase this risk? Also, both breeds are prone to age progressive disorders...would combining the two create more or less risk of that?
Also, as Shih-Tzus are a brachiocephalic breed, their respiratory systems work on a slower pace. How can you ensure that you do not end up with offspring that aquire the brachio traits, but without the compromised respiratory system?

lots of negative aspects to find i guess..
but there are the positive things too..
maltese are prone to eye infections
but on the bright side, they are very very soft
all dogs are prone to getting old
on the bright side..a good diet can help any dog


even yorkies are prone to collapsed tracheas
but all small dogs should be in a vest harness
no neck collars should be used on the small dogs..
reverse sneezing is common in little dogs too.

mixing is how they got the biewers in germany
maltese and yorkies got together somewhere
i can predict that my yorkipoos will be very cute and colorful
lucy is a miniature black sheep.
this debate is all her fault..
she was so cute .. i wanted more..
gus is a little grizzly bear
isabella was all black with a patch of white on her chin.
i guess we have to agree to disagree
everyone has a right to their opinions

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Mixing breeds does not create a new breed. That is where people are misled and the "morkie" "shorkie" false advertising is born along with a bunch of puppies and dogs that end up in rescues because no one thinks to ask any questions of buyers before they are sold. Or the puppy didn't grow up to what someone thought they would get because the neighbours morkie is 5 lbs and looks like a Yorkie but theirs is 20 lbs and looks like who knows?
Read AKC or Canadian Kennel Club on their site about what it takes to have a new breed recognized. It is not throwing some dogs together, coming up with a catch name and marketing a new product.
That works with commodities not dogs.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by durtymydawg

Tami, I wasn't attacking anyone...I was simply asking just like everyone else, some people would like to see what a breeder thinks or actually is the cost of producing a litter is...?? The simple answer is that no one is willing to give that answer being it would show that they make $$$. They will use the excuse that there is to many variables, then just give us one scenario...please its not that hard. NO OFFENSE LYNN....

Well, if you really want to know: It comes down to simple math. Eventually, every breeder will make $$$ on dogs. Kennel supplies are basically the same for most breeders. The biggest variables are the vet bills, how reputable/dedicated a breeder you are and what the "market" will bare. Example: if you need a c-section you will not make as much as if you dont. If my vet is cheaper than yours, then you will not make as much $$ as me. If you raise a breed that is not in high demand, you will not make as much money as the breeder that is breeding the "hot" dog of the day. If you have a big dog that eats you out of house and home, you will not make as much as the smaller dog that produces just as many puppies. In a drepressed market, like today, you will not make as much $$ as you did in a great economy. I have known breeders that pay house payments or other bills and the only reason they breed is for the extra income. I know a person that makes around 50,000 per year cranking out English Bulldogs, and this is after expenses(vet bills, etc) I also know breeders that have outstanding breeding practices and every extra penny earned is put back into the dogs only. Do you see what I mean by variables?Lets say I may make 1500 on a litter of pups. But the next litter requires a c-section. Well, there goes that 1500, right back into the dogs. Did I really make any money?
I hope I answered your question.