Biewer Terrier or Biewer Yorkshire Terrier

[EnchantedToi]

Kathy
Thank you for sharing your Mars results with us
I appreciate you sharing this information with all

Jan

Originally Posted by kathy785

I don't know the results from everyone's dogs, but I have seen the chart where they plotted the Biewers' results and some known purebred yorkies. The Biewer dots were pretty much clumped together and away from the yorkie dots, which were also clumped.
My Biewers turned out for the most part to be yorkie and maltese and unidentifiable. I guess that explains the cottony coats!
I still suggest that everyone tests their dogs. It is not 100% accurate, but 80% is better than no information at all. Many people have said on the forums that we need to gather information. This is a form of information whether you want to do the test or not.
My dogs have the regular DNA profiles and now the MARS DNA profile. I do blood profiles for information, and vet exams for information. I try to gather EVERYTHING I can, not just what I think will be favorable.

[EnchantedToi]

So very well put Jenn

Originally Posted by JHurtt

None of us here can say that we know for sure what is in this breed. We have had to trust the written history of the breed, what we have been told, and what we have read. Could something have been mixed into this breed as a whole or just into certain lines....sure. Unless you are actually there to see the breeding of the dogs, then you have to trust the information that has been shared with us. I think it is important that everyone keep an open mind when trying to further develop this breed as there are so many unanswered questions. We are all still learning and you cannot learn if you are not open to different possibilities.

As for the name of the dog, as others have said, I too believe that one day the Yorkshire will need to be dropped from the name.....just don't see the rush in it. As for the changing of the standard for the Biewer Terrier, this is something that I just do not agree with. I have no doubt that one day the standard will need to be changed from the one that was given to us by Germany. I just don't see what the rush is. Why not get a better understanding of this breed, watch the generations grow here in the U.S., and then go from there? I also do not want to see the standard changed just to suit what some are seeing wthin the breed. We should be developing a standard based on what we want to see in this breed as the standard is supposed to be what we are all striving to produce. Sure, this means that we have a whole lot of work ahead of us, but look at what the result could be! We could have a beautiful breed with all of the qualities that we WANT to see in this breed rather than dogs that fit the standard that was written around them.

In determining what is within the breed, I am all for testing my dogs if / when a test becomes available that I feel can do this. I know that the members of the BTCA feel that the MARS DNA test is the test that can do this and I applaude them for their work. Personally, I do not feel that the MARS test is an adequate test to determine what is behind the Biewers. Their website clearly states that they are not able to test pure bred dogs and many Biewer owners have written MARS asking if they feel if their test is capable of testing these dogs. The simple answer received from them is no, they do not feel that it is. What I do not understand is why this information is being forced upon others. If some feel that this test is accurate, great, go for it! Please respect those who do not though. I have seen comments posted by some stating that those who do not believe the MARS testing are ignorant, refuse to believe in scientific studies, and one comment went as low as to state that of course someone who doesn't believe in modern denistry would not believe in modern science. Why? What does this accomplish? While it would be great if all of the clubs could just work together for the betterment of the breed, I do not see this happening. But why the nastiness? Why can't everyone just focus on their own goals for the breed? If you come across information that you feel is important for all to know, then share it.....but then leave it for others to take as they want. If they want to take the information and work on it as well, then great. If they don't feel that is the path that they want to take, then great. No harm done!

Sorry, I usually stay out of these kinds of posts but am just so tired of the bickering and childishness. To answer the original question, I have Biewer Yorkshire Terriers until a test that I feel is accurate shows me otherwise.

[JHurtt]

Originally Posted by sierrapups

I'm going to ask Admin to please close this thread as it seems to have been hijacked by the same people that always come out to start a feud!

I don't see any hijacking or feuds going on. Sure, there is a little bickering back and forth, but that should be expected when you ask a question knowing that people have different opinions. If we can carry on a discussion and perhaps begin to understand where each person / club is coming from, that could actually result in a better relationship amongst the clubs. Why would you stop this unless it was necessary?

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by kathy785

The BTCA (Biewer Terrier Club of America) has also recently been accepted under the umbrella of the UCI! That makes 2 groups in the US that are associated with UCI.


This is the misson statement for ARBA;

ARBA also offers these services:
Rare Breed Dog registrations
Rare Breed Conformation Dog Shows
Judges Seminars
Public awareness and education.
Conformation Dog Shows
Championship Titles
Obedience Titles
Canine Citizenship Program

Having the different venues to show the Biewers is great, but eventually getting to show AKC would be super great. We know the Biewers can hold there own at these other venues, but AKC would be the real test if we are breeding truly great dogs.

sounds likie a good club to join for the biewers... if i only had one... dream on.. thanks for this info

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by kathy785

Unfortunately I know of a couple of places already breeding without regard for the breed. The high prices that bring in comparison to most dogs has brought that to be. I unfortunately sold one of the dogs into these conditions. A reference check was done, but did not bring up the conditions at this place. I now do a background check and call state and local animal agencies. We should never trust just the given references alone, as they would not knowingly give a bad reference. (I did have a person give their vet, who in turn told us that the dogs were filthy. Oops! they did not get a dog from me!) I don't want to ever have this on my conscience again. I love my dogs too much to let them end up in a place that has no regard for them.

I don't know if the other breeder even knows that one of her dogs is in the situation it is in. I know about it because I called about the dog when it was put into an auction. I was hoping that a rescue could purchase it. Unfortunately it was beyond the budget of the rescue.
The Biewers that have been sold at the dog auctions, no one cares where they go except that the person was willing to pay the highest price. If the owner would have cared they would not have put them in the auction.

so sorry for your puppy......i can see how people will lie to get your dogs... a complete verification process is totally needed in this world of puppy mills..
the biewers need protected along with all the other breeds..

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by JHurtt

None of us here can say that we know for sure what is in this breed. We have had to trust the written history of the breed, what we have been told, and what we have read. Could something have been mixed into this breed as a whole or just into certain lines....sure. Unless you are actually there to see the breeding of the dogs, then you have to trust the information that has been shared with us. I think it is important that everyone keep an open mind when trying to further develop this breed as there are so many unanswered questions. We are all still learning and you cannot learn if you are not open to different possibilities.

As for the name of the dog, as others have said, I too believe that one day the Yorkshire will need to be dropped from the name.....just don't see the rush in it. As for the changing of the standard for the Biewer Terrier, this is something that I just do not agree with. I have no doubt that one day the standard will need to be changed from the one that was given to us by Germany. I just don't see what the rush is. Why not get a better understanding of this breed, watch the generations grow here in the U.S., and then go from there? I also do not want to see the standard changed just to suit what some are seeing wthin the breed. We should be developing a standard based on what we want to see in this breed as the standard is supposed to be what we are all striving to produce. Sure, this means that we have a whole lot of work ahead of us, but look at what the result could be! We could have a beautiful breed with all of the qualities that we WANT to see in this breed rather than dogs that fit the standard that was written around them.

In determining what is within the breed, I am all for testing my dogs if / when a test becomes available that I feel can do this. I know that the members of the BTCA feel that the MARS DNA test is the test that can do this and I applaude them for their work. Personally, I do not feel that the MARS test is an adequate test to determine what is behind the Biewers. Their website clearly states that they are not able to test pure bred dogs and many Biewer owners have written MARS asking if they feel if their test is capable of testing these dogs. The simple answer received from them is no, they do not feel that it is. What I do not understand is why this information is being forced upon others. If some feel that this test is accurate, great, go for it! Please respect those who do not though. I have seen comments posted by some stating that those who do not believe the MARS testing are ignorant, refuse to believe in scientific studies, and one comment went as low as to state that of course someone who doesn't believe in modern denistry would not believe in modern science. Why? What does this accomplish? While it would be great if all of the clubs could just work together for the betterment of the breed, I do not see this happening. But why the nastiness? Why can't everyone just focus on their own goals for the breed? If you come across information that you feel is important for all to know, then share it.....but then leave it for others to take as they want. If they want to take the information and work on it as well, then great. If they don't feel that is the path that they want to take, then great. No harm done!

Sorry, I usually stay out of these kinds of posts but am just so tired of the bickering and childishness. To answer the original question, I have Biewer Yorkshire Terriers until a test that I feel is accurate shows me otherwise.

Excellent post Jen and I agree with you...

[bchgirl]

Three years later....and still the same debate. Just thought it was interesting....

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...-you-feel.html

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by my2boyz

I just want to ad that I have 4 Biewer Yorkshire Terriers...it even states that on their registrations, both U.S. and German. I'll keep the rest of my opinions and comments to myself...it's probably better that way...at least for now.

count your blessings with four of these beautiful dogs....

[cesar49]

i saw it written that some of the mars test results showed maltese........
are these mostly white biewers soft like the maltese????????????

[scrapindee]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

Three years later....and still the same debate. Just thought it was interesting....

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...-you-feel.html

Actually it is not the same debate, and there is some good communication going on.

[Pruett]

Dogs can go back 8 generations and pick up markers. Just because a test says Saluki, doesn't mean a Saluki was bred within the dogs last 3 generations. It doesn't mean that Saluki was ever bred in the mix. It means when they tested, that a certain amount of chromosomes that most resembled the DNA make up of a Saluki were involved.

Looking at one dogs test alone, means nothing. You have to see where they are in relation to 139 other breeds in the big picture. You have to take the breeds most closely related and place them in a comparison chart with your breed.
When 100 random dogs tested in the mutt test were scattered all over the board, and ours form a nice neat little cluster, that told us that we had a very distinct breed, not a mutt and not a Yorkshire Terrier.

There is not one dog on this Earth that did not originate from the wolf, so therefore no totally purebred dog. All dogs are a mixture of something. There has never been a purebred marker developed for the Biewer Terrier, so the MARS test is perfect for this dog.

The test that the BBCI submitted 3 dogs too, proves even further that the Biewer Terrier has had another dog introduced.
I have spoken with Dr. Sheila and she did not make the statement that no other breed was introduced for the piebald gene to be present.
I have posted the genetic make up of the Yorkie and everybody that knows Yokies, knows there is no piebald (sp) gene in the Yorkie, thus something else introduced.

Everyday you get in a car you have a 50/50 chance of making it where you re going safely. The MARS test is 84% accurate, so that means 84 of the 100 dogs we tested were accurate, and we have a distinctly different breed from any other breed on Earth. FYI, all 100 dogs tested in the same group.

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by scrapindee

Actually it is not the same debate, and there is some good communication going on.

Oh by the couple of pages on that thread...it's the same.

[bchgirl]

Yorkies themselves were derived from 3 breeds....clydesdale terrier, english black tan terrier, and maltese.

[Kelz]

i feel that Parker is a Biewer Yorkshire Terrier. I feel that it is extremely difficult to learn about this breed because everytime i research all i find is arguing about who is right and who's wrong.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Pruett

When 100 random dogs tested in the mutt test were scattered all over the board, and ours form a nice neat little cluster, that told us that we had a very distinct breed, not a mutt and not a Yorkshire Terrier.

Does that mean that the other suggested breeds that were found were present in each and every dog tested, or did it vary? Or were the results within the cluster slightly varied, but w/ a common link (Yorkie?) (I.e. 20 dogs tested showed Saluki and Malteese, 20 showed Malteese only, 20 showed some other combo, etc.) Kind of hard to put my question into words....

Originally Posted by Pruett

I have posted the genetic make up of the Yorkie and everybody that knows Yokies, knows there is no piebald (sp) gene in the Yorkie, thus something else introduced.

The I would assume that means the same apply for the 'parti Yorkies' we are seeing --that they cannot possibly be 100% Yorkie but that some other breed had to have been introduced somewhere generations back?

All theoretically speaking...