ytca

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by feminvstr

I think there is a bottom line for NOT breeding the t, we all know the rIsks and they are huge BUT...

Breeding for structure is what all well bred dogs are about!

A tiny has no structure...they are fragile, they have NO girth..most often than not because of their frail structure theyre roached backed, many have under or over shot bits, many have an over crowded mouth, many can not safely be around small children, many can not safely be around other dogs (specially large ones) many MUST be fed several times a day, many have open fontanals that never close, many suffer from hypglocemia, many will suffer from LP's at an early age (from jumping injuries), if bred often requires a c-section and the cycle is repeated and repeated and repeated...

WHY in the world would a person purposely breed for all of the above, BECAUSE THEY CAN...a PET BREEDER breeds for t without a conscience, they profess they love the bab and they give them so much joy, what about the heartache theyre sell? what about the added expense these puppy buyers are not about!

Perhaps these breeders should also give a lifetime guarantee and PAY for all of the added expense needed to care for these prec little accessor!

All I see is heartache and $$$$ signs.

I should add they not only fit your pocket, they strip your wallet while padding the breeders pocket book.

[feminvstr]

Originally Posted by blondie57

You are right in saying that the small dogs are more prone to injury. That I would say is an accurate fact. But if I breed Borzoi’s as an example then any breed that is smaller people should not buy because they are smaller and more prone to injury.

As with just about anything in life there are pros and cons. A small dog being prone to injury is a definite con. But you don’t seem to realize that there are many pros to the smaller yorkies. When we sell the very small yorkies we try and educate the people on the cons of the small yorkies, and there are some cons that you probably are unaware of yourself. With this knowledge customers are able to make more informed decisions.

In some cases the people decide that the really small yorkies isn’t really best for them and decide on a little bigger yorkies. Then there are other times that even knowing the cons of the small yorkies to them the pros out weight the cons. Our job as breeders is to educate our customers with factual information that can help them make better decisions and we do a much better job than most.

As far as pricing I have never seen a post complaining about a show breeder charging $12,000.00 for a yorkie. Or about many show breeders getting 3000.00 – 5000.00 for a puppy. Why is that ?

No one has answered my question

Why is a breeder who breeds for small Yorkies not reputable?
Or why are you not a responsible breeder if you don’t breed bigger yorkies?

I have found ONE show breeder that sells their champions for $12,000.00
http://rondelkennels.com/nursery.html

that being said most will place a finished champion dog/bitch $5000-$6000 unless placed overseas, I've seen up to $25,000.00 BUT that is a well established/respected kennel.

[blondie57]

why can't i make any posts ?

[blondie57]

Originally Posted by feminvstr

A tiny has no structure...they are fragile, they have NO girth..most often than not because of their frail structure theyre roached backed, many have under or over shot bits, many have an over crowded mouth, many can not safely be around small children, many can not safely be around other dogs (specially large ones) many MUST be fed several times a day, many have open fontanals that never close, many suffer from hypglocemia, many will suffer from LP's at an early age (from jumping injuries), if bred often requires a c-section and the cycle is repeated and repeated and repeated...

Are you saying that the foundation dogs of the yorkshire terrier were terrible dogs.

I know that you are a show breeder and breed for the larger yorkies for show. But do you have any experience breeding the small yorkies. But from my experience and the experience of a few other breeders that I know your statements just aren't true.

[feminvstr]

Originally Posted by blondie57

Are you saying that the foundation dogs of the yorkshire terrier were terrible dogs.

NO what I clearly stated breeding the structure down is NOT building a pure desirable foundation, nor breeding for the betterment of a breed!

You might want to invest in the DVD "the puppy puzzle" it is not breed specific it is universal.....proper STRUCTURE does not exsist if you are BREEDING down a breed no matter what the kind of animal it is.

[blondie57]

I guess you are not familiar with the YTCA website. Many of the original yorkies were shown in the 4 lb and under class and the 5 lb and under.

[kathrynS]

Did we all forget our dogs were originally bread to chase rats down the streets of london. It's not like they were bread to sit bye the kings and queens. Just love them and accept them for who they are now. Someone started to improve the breed. So glad they did. Be it big or small love them all.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by blondie57

I guess you are not familiar with the YTCA website. Many of the original yorkies were shown in the 4 lb and under class and the 5 lb and under.

I'm familiar with the YTCA website and a member. What you are speaking to is what transpired years ago at the inception of the breed and not what is identified in the standard today

[feminvstr]

Originally Posted by blondie57

I guess you are not familiar with the YTCA website. Many of the original yorkies were shown in the 4 lb and under class and the 5 lb and under.

Find it interesting you continue down this path...size shown in those two classes were over 40 years ago...like everything...times have changed, people become more EDUCATED, more conscientious more responsible!

Your brokering partner stated...price is justified because of the additional care needed for rearing a tiny litter, this statement alone speaks volumes as to the special needs of tinies.

Show dogs are easy to find and easy to raise they are much bigger dogs and usually go home at about 8wks old tiny Quality tiny yorkies take a lot more care and a lot more time i usually keep them until the are at least 3 to 6 months old to raise tiny yorkies you have to be completly dedicated to what you do when they are born you need to monitor them at least every 3 hours there whelping boxes have to be at a certain temperture at all time and so on and they are much more difficult to find as well as there is not a large quantity of them available they only have 2 or three puppies a litter bigger show dogs have 6 to 7 puppies a litter so there is a lot more of them available as well.
Natalie

[Mardelin]

Show dogs are easy to find and easy to raise they are much bigger dogs and usually go home at about 8wks old tiny Quality tiny yorkies take a lot more care and a lot more time i usually keep them until the are at least 3 to 6 months old to raise tiny yorkies you have to be completly dedicated to what you do when they are born you need to monitor them at least every 3 hours there whelping boxes have to be at a certain temperture at all time and so on and they are much more difficult to find as well as there is not a large quantity of them available they only have 2 or three puppies a litter bigger show dogs have 6 to 7 puppies a litter so there is a lot more of them available as well.
Natalie

Show dogs are not easy to find or easier to raise. As a matter of fact show dogs require special rearing as they are born to show but, must be molded. I consider myself very blessed if I get one show quality dog out of every 6 litters.

We do not let show dogs go at 8 weeks of age, we don't let pets go younger than 12 wees or more. (most likely keep them for ourselves), show dogs are kept a minimum of 6 months if not more, to make sure they won't fall a part. We won't place show dogs if we wouldn't keep them in our own kennel....after all it's our reputation in the ring.

As far as you statment that tines only whelp 2 or 3 in a litter....and bigger show dogs whelp larger litters......NOT..it's the same for either size.....What is why we are concerned with breeding a tiny....they can conceive large litters, therefore worrying us that they can carry a full pack litter and a litter this size can take alot out if a standard size dam, so you can imagine what it would do to a tiny.

So, again while there is concern/care for a tiny...it is and should be concern for any size newborn yorkie.....Everything in your above statement holds true when breeding any yorkie......that is if you are doing it correctly

[feminvstr]

Originally Posted by feminvstr

Find it interesting you continue down this path...size shown in those two classes were over 40 years ago...like everything...times have changed, people become more EDUCATED, more conscientious more responsible!

Your brokering partner stated...price is justified because of the additional care needed for rearing a tiny litter, this statement alone speaks volumes as to the special needs of tinies.

actually as I reread her statement it is filled with justification for a price tag of $5000 yet it is merely the daily care for ANY LITTER no matter the size of the bitch/stud.

ALL PUPPIES can not regulate their own heat for the first 3 weeks
all puppies should be doted on regularly including ENS as well as weighed 3times a day for the first two weeks and once a day after that...
all puppies should be kept for at least 12 weeks of age
PAT testing starts at about 8 weeks
Size of the bitch does not yield a larger litter (meaning quantity)
must be fed often specially after weaning (free feed is the preferable method)

i do have food available for them at all times a lot of times i can hear them crunching on food in the middle of the night i keep food for them on my head board of my bed they have to eat at least every 3 to 4 hours because there little stomachs can not hold enough food for them to go 8hrs with out food you have to make sure they take there naps so they don't play to hard and wear themselfs out they are much different then a bigger yorkie but once they are at least a year old they do very very well it's just when they are younger is when they don't realize they are little dogs some of them think they are 10 pounds

but found this interesting...no matter how you attempt to spin your words tinies are no more difficult to raise than a standard yet t$n$es price is always astounding!

[tiggerr36792]

If Show breeders don't breed for tinies how can this reputable show breeder guarantee under 3 lbs for 3500.00????????
http://rondelkennels.com/nursery.html

Pets: $800 to $2500 (All pets come spayed or neutered.)

Guaranteed under 4 pounds: $1800 to $3000
Guaranteed under 3 pounds $3500
Show-Quality: $2500 - $3500 (Full AKC Registration and breeding rights)
Prices will vary depending on quality and size of puppy.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by tiggerr36792

If Show breeders don't breed for tinies how can this reputable show breeder guarantee under 3 lbs for 3500.00????????
http://rondelkennels.com/nursery.html

Pets: $800 to $2500 (All pets come spayed or neutered.)

Guaranteed under 4 pounds: $1800 to $3000
Guaranteed under 3 pounds $3500
Show-Quality: $2500 - $3500 (Full AKC Registration and breeding rights)
Prices will vary depending on quality and size of puppy.

They can't, no reputable breeder can guarantee size.....because the only thing you can depend on is that these Yorkies will make a liar out of you everytime.

I as a breeder/exhibitor do not advertise when I have a litter or when I have pups available

And as I said before....reputable breeders don't price their tinies at a higher price, they place those tinies in homes that are familiar with the care of them.

[tiggerr36792]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

They can't, no reputable breeder can guarantee size.....because the only thing you can depend on is that these Yorkies will make a liar out of you everytime.

I as a breeder/exhibitor do not advertise when I have a litter or when I have pups available

How do you explain this?????

If Show breeders don't breed for tinies how can this reputable show breeder guarantee under 3 lbs for 3500.00????????
http://rondelkennels.com/nursery.html

So are you saying this breeder is not reputable???

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by tiggerr36792

How do you explain this?????

If Show breeders don't breed for tinies how can this reputable show breeder guarantee under 3 lbs for 3500.00????????
http://rondelkennels.com/nursery.html

So are you saying this breeder is not reputable???

.....the operative word is reputable. I don't know this breeder on a personal basis or their practices. I can only speak of my dealins with long term established breeders and how they do business and they conduct it very much as I do.....I have one price for my pet yorkies, be they male or female and another for my show quality, be they male or female.....I place tinies in homes that are familiar with the care of them, since I won't sell heartace (even though they may be healthy, one does not know what can happen down the line). I don't place dogs on open registration to just anyone.....I don't want my pedigree in the hands of those that talk the talk but, don't walk the walk.