ytca

[JaLaYorkieGirl]

Sorry should have said some was copied, some was added, and parts re-arranged.

[blondie57]

Here is a excerpt from an article on the YTCA website :

“Yorkshire Terriers were given their breed name by 1874, although it had been around since 1870. Originally they were known and shown as Broken Haired Scotch Terriers or Toy Terrier (rough and broken haired).

Almost all of the classes were divided by weight. The classes were for Broken Haired or Rough Scotch Terriers less than 5 lbs. or 6 lbs. and under; Toy Terriers 4 lbs. and under, or 5 lbs. not exceeding 7 lbs., or 6 lbs. and over; or Blue Scotch Terriers under 7 lbs. or 7 lbs. not exceeding 9 lbs. The largest weight class in which they were reported
to have been shown was for Broken Haired Scotch Terrier 9 lbs. not exceeding 12 lbs. This record should prove that although there were larger Yorkshires they were not being shown at the dog shows. The record proves that the small size was available for breeding from early days.”

I know from my experience and a few other knowledgeable breeders that we can consistently produce healthy yorkies under 4 lbs.(not just an occasional small puppy). The reason we can do this is because we understand genetics, study the pedigrees of our yorkies, and the fact that small genetics already exists in the Yorkshire Terrier which is proven in the article on the YTCA website.

Attached is a picture of a 3 month old puppy of ours.

She came from a litter of four, 3 of the puppies will probably never make it to 2 lbs. And the fourth puppy may make it to 3 lbs. Not only are they all small but two of them (if they were larger) could be considered as show quality.

I have two questions:

1. Why is a breeder who breeds for small Yorkies not reputable?
2. If you breed for small yorkies how would you ethically describe your yorkies?

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by blondie57

1. Why is a breeder who breeds for small Yorkies not reputable?
2. If you breed for small yorkies how would you ethically describe your yorkies?

3

*Generally*, when you run across breeders purposely breeding for extremely small Yorkies, it's not because they are trying to breed for quality dogs--it's because they are trying to get big $$$ of a designer fad. (Thanks Paris and Brittney! )

As with any dogs who are bred without their best interest--health, temperament, standard--in mind, they run a greater risk of health problems due to bad breeding.

Even the healthiest of tiny Yorkies are still more prone to injury. That is just a fact. Unfortunate, but a fact just the same. They cannot physically handle the same things that the non-tiny Yorkies can. And what is the point? What is the benefit of having a dog that requires so much extra care and caution?

When you are charging outrageous prices for dogs that you advertise and promote because of their incredibly large size, it's going to be hard to convince anyone that you are eithical. I realize everyone has a right to charge what they feel like their dogs are worth, but there comes a time when you cross the line and it becomes ridiculous.

Just general thoughts...

[Brooklynn]

And my question is why breed for that small anyway? I would rather have a yorkie within standard and bred correctly and not have to worry if my little one is going to hurt themselves and worry and worry and worry....I have a yorkie that is right at 4 pounds and she's the one I worry about the most...the bigger ones just seem to be a lot less worry....everytime Krissy the 4 pounds one jumps I freak and when she gets under foot I freak and with concrete flooring I worry about her...she's healthy yes but I'd much rather have the larger yorkie and besides I show and she's my pet but to breed responsibly you breed a bigger yorkie not the ones that are tiny UGH!
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by lisatodd

i also wanted to ask this of the op.....who's puppies are these? yours or elvis yorkies? what is your association with elvis?

Ask him!!!!!!!!!! he is Blondie57 and he post4d on this thread on page 4 or 5. BTW, Larry,(Elvis) that pups picture you posted looks just like the one I am escorting to Omaha tomorrow. Nice puppy Don't bother to reply. i am at the library for a few minutes. The big dell crashed.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

Ask him!!!!!!!!!! he is Blondie57 and he post4d on this thread on page 4 or 5. BTW, Larry,(Elvis) that pups picture you posted looks just like the one I am escorting to Omaha tomorrow.

If it's him, that would explain the defense of tiny breeders....

Is it the same pup, Dee?

[blondie57]

You are right in saying that the small dogs are more prone to injury. That I would say is an accurate fact. But if I breed Borzoi’s as an example then any breed that is smaller people should not buy because they are smaller and more prone to injury.

As with just about anything in life there are pros and cons. A small dog being prone to injury is a definite con. But you don’t seem to realize that there are many pros to the smaller yorkies. When we sell the very small yorkies we try and educate the people on the cons of the small yorkies, and there are some cons that you probably are unaware of yourself. With this knowledge customers are able to make more informed decisions.

In some cases the people decide that the really small yorkies isn’t really best for them and decide on a little bigger yorkies. Then there are other times that even knowing the cons of the small yorkies to them the pros out weight the cons. Our job as breeders is to educate our customers with factual information that can help them make better decisions and we do a much better job than most.

As far as pricing I have never seen a post complaining about a show breeder charging $12,000.00 for a yorkie. Or about many show breeders getting 3000.00 – 5000.00 for a puppy. Why is that ?

No one has answered my question

Why is a breeder who breeds for small Yorkies not reputable?
Or why are you not a responsible breeder if you don’t breed bigger yorkies?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

And my question is why breed for that small anyway? I would rather have a yorkie within standard and bred correctly and not have to worry if my little one is going to hurt themselves and worry and worry and worry....I have a yorkie that is right at 4 pounds and she's the one I worry about the most...the bigger ones just seem to be a lot less worry....everytime Krissy the 4 pounds one jumps I freak and when she gets under foot I freak and with concrete flooring I worry about her...she's healthy yes but I'd much rather have the larger yorkie and besides I show and she's my pet but to breed responsibly you breed a bigger yorkie not the ones that are tiny UGH!
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

Donna,

I so understand what you mean. Charmer though 5 pounds is very diminutive and fine boned ( his paw pads are much smaller than the size of quarter). I worry about him constantly. I do prefer a yorkie with more bone on them. My Grandson has one of Lee's pups out of her Andy and this boy is great....nice strong boned and I can rough house with him and not worry. Bigger than standard, yes, but I love his size for a pet.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by blondie57

You are right in saying that the small dogs are more prone to injury. That I would say is an accurate fact. But if I breed Borzoi’s as an example then any breed that is smaller people should not buy because they are smaller and more prone to injury.

As with just about anything in life there are pros and cons. A small dog being prone to injury is a definite con. But you don’t seem to realize that there are many pros to the smaller yorkies. When we sell the very small yorkies we try and educate the people on the cons of the small yorkies, and there are some cons that you probably are unaware of yourself. With this knowledge customers are able to make more informed decisions.

In some cases the people decide that the really small yorkies isn’t really best for them and decide on a little bigger yorkies. Then there are other times that even knowing the cons of the small yorkies to them the pros out weight the cons. Our job as breeders is to educate our customers with factual information that can help them make better decisions and we do a much better job than most.

As far as pricing I have never seen a post complaining about a show breeder charging $12,000.00 for a yorkie. Or about many show breeders getting 3000.00 – 5000.00 for a puppy. Why is that ?

No one has answered my question

Why is a breeder who breeds for small Yorkies not reputable?
Or why are you not a responsible breeder if you don’t breed bigger yorkies?

I'm not sure where you saw prices for 3000 - 5000. I know as a show/exhibitor that knows many well known show/breeders that don't even place their show dogs for that amount. Most price their dogs for much less than those you find on websites. And as far as tinies, I would never purposely breed for them, let alone charge a fee for placing them. I, like other show/breeders place them in homes that are experienced in taking care of these wee ones. Not knowing medical problems that may arise, we don't want to sell heartache.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by blondie57

As with just about anything in life there are pros and cons. A small dog being prone to injury is a definite con. But you don’t seem to realize that there are many pros to the smaller yorkies. When we sell the very small yorkies we try and educate the people on the cons of the small yorkies, and there are some cons that you probably are unaware of yourself. With this knowledge customers are able to make more informed decisions.

Can you please explain what the Pro's are to a smaller yorkie?

[Baron]

Originally Posted by blondie57

You are right in saying that the small dogs are more prone to injury. That I would say is an accurate fact. But if I breed Borzoi’s as an example then any breed that is smaller people should not buy because they are smaller and more prone to injury.

As with just about anything in life there are pros and cons. A small dog being prone to injury is a definite con. But you don’t seem to realize that there are many pros to the smaller yorkies. When we sell the very small yorkies we try and educate the people on the cons of the small yorkies, and there are some cons that you probably are unaware of yourself. With this knowledge customers are able to make more informed decisions.

In some cases the people decide that the really small yorkies isn’t really best for them and decide on a little bigger yorkies. Then there are other times that even knowing the cons of the small yorkies to them the pros out weight the cons. Our job as breeders is to educate our customers with factual information that can help them make better decisions and we do a much better job than most.

As far as pricing I have never seen a post complaining about a show breeder charging $12,000.00 for a yorkie. Or about many show breeders getting 3000.00 – 5000.00 for a puppy. Why is that ?

No one has answered my question

Why is a breeder who breeds for small Yorkies not reputable?
Or why are you not a responsible breeder if you don’t breed bigger yorkies?

I am a show breeder and I have never seen a show breeder charge 12000.00 for a dog. Jeff Dane, yes, but not a show breeder. I would sure like to know where you seen that at. Even your 3000.00 - 5000.00 is out of line for a pet. Some of the really good show dogs that have already finished their championship, yes, but not a pet. 1000 to 2000 for a pet just pays for the care from birth to selling age for most of us. I have a single pup right now that was just born 12/28 and it has already cost me over 1000.00 to have my bitch checked, and monitored because they knew it was a singleton pup and would be too large for her to whelp freely. I still have puppy shots, worming, microchipping, and general caring for her. If, I was to sell her as a pet, she would go at 1200.00, which is what I sell all my pets for regardless of size. Even my tiny went at only 1000.00 because I cared more about the home she was going to than making money.

None of us breed for the tiny yorkies, but we still occasionaly have them, just as we occasionaly have a larger than standard one.

The reason we say that those that breed for the tinies are not reputable is because they are usually in it for the money and are putting the little bitches that they use at risk. I worry about my bitches that are 4 1/2 to 6 pounds, I could not imagine breeding anything smaller without worring about her dying. Also, not only are the tinies bones more easily broken, but if they get sick, they do not have any reserve weight to help them through the illness, they MUST be taken to a vet immediately and treated, which a lot of people do not understand. What we may usually wait a day or two for, before getting treatment on a standard yorkie, could end up killing a tiny that did not get treated.

If you like a particular breed, then you should be breeding to the standard for that breed

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by blondie57

But you don’t seem to realize that there are many pros to the smaller yorkies.

Such as?

Originally Posted by blondie57

There are some cons that you probably are unaware of yourself.

Please, do enlighten us.

Originally Posted by blondie57

As far as pricing I have never seen a post complaining about a show breeder charging $12,000.00 for a yorkie. Or about many show breeders getting 3000.00 – 5000.00 for a puppy. Why is that ?

I can honestly say I've never seen a "show breeder" charging that much for a puppy or I would be the first one to tell them they had lost their mind!
Even 3000.00 would be pushing it. But at least when buying a dog from a reputable show breeder for a higher amount, you know that they are being judge on how well their dogs are representing the breed, which is why they are more...even show breeders have to cover their costs. More costs, time and money will naturally be put into a breeding program where the breeder is actively showing. What is the excuse for charging that price for a dog just because it's smaller.

Originally Posted by blondie57

No one has answered my question
Why is a breeder who breeds for small Yorkies not reputable?

Yes, your question has been answered and opinions have been given. If they were not to your liking and you choose to ignore them...that is your choice.

[blondie57]

Here is just one example.
http://rondelkennels.com/nursery.html

Personally what someone charges is really only their buisness and people charging high prices actually benefits all breeders. If everyone sold their yorkies for $350.00 you would have a hard time selling yours for $1000.00

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

Can you please explain what the Pro's are to a smaller yorkie?

They fit in your pocket

[feminvstr]

I think there is a bottom line for NOT breeding the t$n$es, we all know the rIsks and they are huge BUT...

Breeding for structure is what all well bred dogs are about!

A tiny has no structure...they are fragile, they have NO girth..most often than not because of their frail structure theyre roached backed, many have under or over shot bits, many have an over crowded mouth, many can not safely be around small children, many can not safely be around other dogs (specially large ones) many MUST be fed several times a day, many have open fontanals that never close, many suffer from hypglocemia, many will suffer from LP's at an early age (from jumping injuries), if bred often requires a c-section and the cycle is repeated and repeated and repeated...

WHY in the world would a person purposely breed for all of the above, BECAUSE THEY CAN...a PET BREEDER breeds for t$n$es without a conscience, they profess they love the$r bab$es and they give them so much joy, what about the heartache theyre sell$ng? what about the added expense these puppy buyers are not $nformed about!

Perhaps these breeders should also give a lifetime guarantee and PAY for all of the added expense needed to care for these prec$ous little accessor$es!

All I see is heartache and $$$$ signs.