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08-20-2009, 07:16 AM | #1 |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,317
| Alpha Roll I know many people still use the outdated Alpha Roll that was developed back in the 1970's by the Monks of New Skete. Even though they later came out and apologized for it, stating that they never intended for it to be used by owners, but only by profession trainers in the most extreme cases of aggression, unfortunately, it is still used today. Please read these articles: http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonli...0statement.pdf ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory |
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08-20-2009, 07:47 AM | #2 |
No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,748
| do you watch Victoria Stillwell or Ceasar Milan? Neither do the alpha roll that i know of, but Ceasar does do the claw thing to some dogs and talks about walking out doors first and eating first and Victoria does mimic the alpha role of eating the dogs food first and then giving it to him. what do you make of this? |
08-20-2009, 07:56 AM | #3 |
Action Jackson ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Maryland
Posts: 17,814
| There's been a few threads in the past like this: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/tra...pha-rolls.html http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/tra...ification.html http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/tra...te-thread.html I've already posted my opinion there.
__________________ ~ Brit & Lights! Camera! Jackson! CGC ETD TKP ~ Follow Jackson on Instagram: https://instagram.com/jacksontheterrier |
08-20-2009, 08:01 AM | #4 | |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,317
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08-20-2009, 08:10 AM | #5 | |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,317
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08-20-2009, 08:15 AM | #6 | |
I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 37,147
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__________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427 | |
08-20-2009, 09:33 AM | #7 |
No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,748
| No magic word the longer i have Sadie and the more time i spend with her, the more i realize that Sadie is Sadie and there are no magic words to make her perfect and there are no rights and wrongs in training her really. it's all situational, what works for her doesn't work for others and vice versa. each dog is an individual and has to be treated in a way that works best for them. just like you can't write a book that teaches you everything there is to know about being a child's parent, it's the same with dogs, there is good info. lots of advice to try out, but there are many ways to do things and you have to find what works best for the dog you have!! i'm learning so much that i have to learn how to train and teach her based on how she responds and not how i've been taught or advised to do it. it's all based on how well it works with her! just thought i'd throw that out there, there is no magic words, just trial and error in finding the perfect thing to make the dog listen, learn, and respond. |
08-20-2009, 09:46 AM | #8 | |
I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 37,147
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__________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427 | |
08-20-2009, 10:04 AM | #9 | |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: FL
Posts: 7,651
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__________________ FlDebra and her ABCs Annie, Ben, Candy Promoting Healthy Breeding to the AKC Yorkshire Terrier Standard | |
08-20-2009, 09:05 PM | #10 | |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: North
Posts: 1,324
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I posted a great deal when I was here before. Dogs are not wolves wolves are not dogs and wolves do not alpha roll other wolves in a normal funtioning pack. They are a family and most often a wolf will roll over all on it own to just show all is well in the world. Most times it is the well adjusted dog that will offer up its belly to a freaful dog to help calm things down and show it is not a threat. Well done Ladymom you have the right end of things keep it up. You need any more info on this PM me and I can get some good book titles. Click or in my case we would say preaching to the choir. I totally get this and it is ok to repeat and post about this again and again as if it comes out of the end of many differnt fingures then others will see it not just one but many that think and feel and nderstand things that are done with research and hard work is true. JL
__________________ "The truth about an animal is far more beautiful than all the myths woven about it." Konrad Loranz Last edited by YorkieMother; 08-20-2009 at 09:09 PM. | |
08-20-2009, 10:59 PM | #11 | |
I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 37,147
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__________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427 | |
08-21-2009, 12:05 AM | #12 | |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: North
Posts: 1,324
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I am perfectly OK with that. You need never change your methods of training what so ever. But there are others that are just coming into knowing or are looking at things in a different more progressive fact based ,science based, dog friendly way of doing training, that builds a relationship with a dog from a place of trust not fear and they need to be told that they are seeing things clearly and accurately then some other. They have the right to post what they think is new and interesting and changing their lives and the lives of many others and not get smack up side the head cause you do not want to hear it anymore and you do not understand it. Fact is it is not new and that OK but many are still crossing over. I remember the day the light bulb went on and I know that trying to teach a little girl to heel by her pulling and me pulling and then her pulling and me pulling back as a correction was about as useful as not. On the other hand when someone posts a thread that is OK alpha roll the dog or use a can of penny and has not clue that there can be nasty fall out to that and most do not have a clue there can be or even see it when it happens. I tend to shake my head and go fine have at it wreak a perfectly normal behave dog anyway you want but do not teach it to other if you do not know the fall out or how to fix it if there is. I can, I have, I have the resources to, I have the leg work that is based in science and I can lay hands on studies which you wish not to read that can prove my points. You can not prove your methods can or can not based in science. It all you can say that it been done that way for years. We have driven fussel fuel cars for years and now what are we looking at. the hybrids. why science say......... We recycle why...science says......... Why is it that we have to stick to the old ways when scince says there are better way....cause it always been done that way....... You know six years down the line maybe more maybe less there will be others ways to do lots of things. Why is it so scarey to look hard at a new way to dog train???? Life changes nothing stays teh same. Makes life intresting and great learning. JL
__________________ "The truth about an animal is far more beautiful than all the myths woven about it." Konrad Loranz | |
08-21-2009, 12:22 AM | #13 |
I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 37,147
| It just seems like if you dont agree with it dont do it. But I dont know why it has to be debated all the time by the same people
__________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427 |
08-21-2009, 12:38 AM | #14 | |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: North
Posts: 1,324
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This is why right here ( see below) she came for advice and she listened to it from those that really are not even close to versed in behaviour... it is not training when you are dealing with fear it is behavour and it got worse. and it a dogs life that is affected and it is NOT OK !! And it did not have to happen if we had done things from slow and easy. This is why can you fix this??? I may be able to may if I had the dog in hand and close and if I have a parent willing to trust. But when a parenet trusted once it and is fails it takes longer each time to get them to trust again and get to work and the dogs just do not have the time. liveing with fear is not ok and not comfortable. Why going slow and staying gentle is better cause you got more room to catch the problems before they slam you in the face. JL "Well, I'm puzzled now. Kaji will not walk out the front door, I don't know why but he won't. He'll come downstairs with me then watch me walk out. When I call him he quickly turns around and jets back upstairs. Once I get up there he is sitting by my bed and when I get close he lies on his back. When I reach down to pick him up because he needs to get out to potty, he dribbles pee. He did it three times today. Once before his mid-day walk, and twice before his before bed walk. The second one right now dribbled all over his belly. This is a fairly new behavior and it has me baffled. It only happens if I let him walk downstairs as we're heading out. If I carry him down and all the way outside, he's able to hold it long enough to pee outside. I thought I was seeing things for a few days but now I'm sure, I saw the stream when I picked him up all three times today. My roommate was helping me show him that walking out the door is good. And he was getting the hang of it, too, when he ran back upstairs and then he peed (not dribbled but a small puddle). He knew he did something wrong because he cowered and hid under my desk. Am I doing something to scare him? "
__________________ "The truth about an animal is far more beautiful than all the myths woven about it." Konrad Loranz Last edited by YorkieMother; 08-21-2009 at 12:42 AM. | |
08-21-2009, 12:46 AM | #15 |
I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 37,147
| There are also plenty of people on here that it has worked for and they have the right to give advice the same as you do. When it comes down to it no one on here is more qualified than anyone to give opinions it is just opinions on an open forum. I believe there are more than one way to train a dog and no one is a superior source of knowledge on the subject
__________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427 |
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