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-   -   Cesar debate thread (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-training-questions/180349-cesar-debate-thread.html)

YorkieMother 08-10-2009 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chattiesmom (Post 2749973)
I cannot understand why it is so important to throw PHD behaviourists around. Most YTers are fully intelligent enough to watch, read, and evaluate the suitability of training techniques for themselves without having to be led by some stranger we know nothing about. Unfortunately many lack the confidence to try.

Each of us is (or should be) the best trainer for our own dogs. We all have the responsibility to learn what will work best for our situations and dogs. For me, I use a combination of ideas gleaned from a lifetime of working with animals. Although I do not agree that all of Cesar's techniques will work for me or my Yorkies, I have found many that do.

Let me try it this way then
Say someone a human you know had a mental break down......
Now where would you go for help.....
A DR. a PHD, MD, Carded Doctor not a quack right.
Not your next door neighbour or the kid on the corner that looked after his dotty auntie for 20 years.
What I am saying is that Ceaser does not have the skill set to work with the dogs he seems to think he can. Some maybe.
But the one that was afraid of thunder no. That on the playing level of a human nervous break down not a slick fix up by a quack.
Not when the first thing out the door evertime is pack leader take charge...some of these dogs need to to stop and let them get a grip and take the lead as if you bully they bite.

When playing around with mental health you play go to those carring the full deck of knowledge and you do not start from rough you start at the point a dog in major stress can give you and build not tear down.

JL

Akbritt 08-10-2009 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuickSilver (Post 2749992)
I'm glad someone was able to satisfy you on page 17. ;)


I wasn't going to post But then I just couldn't help my self.:D

QuickSilver 08-10-2009 01:58 PM

Again, I think it can be problematic because there is still so much we don't know. I'd certainly rather work with a dog trainer who has 15 years experience than someone who has none at all. At the same time, many people who have worked with children for fifteen years are good, bad, or indifferent teachers, and there are lots of different styles of teaching. Again, I feel that we are further along in our understanding of dog learning than we are with people, so while I don't feel like I can speak with confidence on the "best way to raise children", I do feel that we can make some generalizations about dogs.

Another thing I don't like about Cesar (I really don't hate the guy as much as it sounds like I do, ha ha), is his insistence that you must buy into his technique, body and soul. To me, it almost feels culty - if my method is working for you, you must not believe in it enough. That's why I object so much when Cesar gets upset with owners for daring to sit with their dogs or in some cases, just watching out the window!

VS argues with owners too, but it doesn't have the same oppressive feeling to me.

Nancy1999 08-10-2009 02:19 PM

I think a frustration for me is that every time I give a suggestion on a training thread that I learned through Cesar's show, I'm barraged with replies about how awful Cesar is. I had a real problem with Joey when other dogs were visiting and I had to feed them both. Joey became terribly aggressive, and I read another trainer who said feed dogs in separate rooms. So that's what we did, occasionally trying to feed them in the same room, but even a treat or chew toys became problems. I learned from Cesar that establishing yourself as a pack leader is very important, and your dog must learn all food comes through you, and he suggests teaching them to sit and stay before you set the food down, and don't allow them to touch the food until you give the release command. I really didn't think it would work, Joey was a little Mike Tyson, where food was concerned, but I tried it anyway, and the very first time it worked, one trial learning that hardly ever happens! There were no fighting or switching bowls; they each ate from their own bowl. Am I being abusive by doing this? Isn't this better than them being abusive? I also learned from Cesar the difference between a power walk, and a playful walk, I had always taken Joey on playful walks, but I could see how his attitude change on the power walks, he really looked like, took on a different attitude, and seemed serious about doing this job. There are several other things I learned that helped me with Joey, but when I try to share what's helped me, I get all these responses about how Cesar's so abusive and a good pet owner would never use any of his techniques, and dogs aren't pack animals. So then all these other training threads become debate threads, and I'm just trying to share things that worked for Joey.

I think many of you overestimate how much we love Cesar, it's just many of us are grateful to have learned something that works, and his shows are interesting to watch, even if what he's doing doesn't apply to your own dog. I do think the average pet owner should become acquainted with the typical food reward training methods. I applaud you Quicksilver for opening this thread, and I intend to link it every time a training thread gets hijacked.

chattiesmom 08-10-2009 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieMother (Post 2749994)
Let me try it this way then
Say someone a human you know had a mental break down......
Now where would you go for help.....
A DR. a PHD, MD, Carded Doctor not a quack right.
Not your next door neighbour or the kid on the corner that looked after his dotty auntie for 20 years.
What I am saying is that Ceaser does not have the skill set to work with the dogs he seems to think he can. Some maybe.But the one that was afraid of thunder no. That on the playing level of a human nervous break down not a slick fix up by a quack.
Not when the first thing out the door evertime is pack leader take charge...some of these dogs need to to stop and let them get a grip and take the lead as if you bully they bite.

When playing around with mental health you play go to those carring the full deck of knowledge and you do not start from rough you start at the point a dog in major stress can give you and build not tear down.

JL


Opinions presented as fact such as the one in bolded red above concern and sadden me. Although I don't agree with everything he does, he is very successful and certainly does have the necessary skill set to take care of the problems he tackles. You may not agree with some or all of his methods, but he IS generally successful.

YorkieMother 08-10-2009 02:27 PM

[QUOTE=QuickSilver;2750026]Again, QUOTE]

There are some that have trained for 15 years and still take the dog by the collar and swing it round in the air like a helicoper until it passes out.
Ever read what happened to Emma Parsons dog, Ben. We still do not know the dog trainer on that. Even better when you are in the room at her seminar and she tells you. Glad I missed breakfast that day.

With 7 years in and training and reading and classes, I still have a ton more to learn but I never do what the trainer above did even with less time in.

JL

Akbritt 08-10-2009 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2750057)
I think a frustration for me is that every time I give a suggestion on a training thread that I learned through Cesar's show, I'm barraged with replies about how awful Cesar is. I had a real problem with Joey when other dogs were visiting and I had to feed them both. Joey became terribly aggressive, and I read another trainer who said feed dogs in separate rooms. So that's what we did, occasionally trying to feed them in the same room, but even a treat or chew toys became problems. I learned from Cesar that establishing yourself as a pack leader is very important, and your dog must learn all food comes through you, and he suggests teaching them to sit and stay before you set the food down, and don't allow them to touch the food until you give the release command. I really didn't think it would work, Joey was a little Mike Tyson, where food was concerned, but I tried it anyway, and the very first time it worked, one trial learning that hardly ever happens! There were no fighting or switching bowls; they each ate from their own bowl. Am I being abusive by doing this? Isn't this better than them being abusive? I also learned from Cesar the difference between a power walk, and a playful walk, I had always taken Joey on playful walks, but I could see how his attitude change on the power walks, he really looked like, took on a different attitude, and seemed serious about doing this job. There are several other things I learned that helped me with Joey, but when I try to share what's helped me, I get all these responses about how Cesar's so abusive and a good pet owner would never use any of his techniques, and dogs aren't pack animals. So then all these other training threads become debate threads, and I'm just trying to share things that worked for Joey.

I think many of you overestimate how much we love Cesar, it's just many of us are grateful to have learned something that works, and his shows are interesting to watch, even if what he's doing doesn't apply to your own dog. I do think the average pet owner should become acquainted with the typical food reward training methods. I applaud you Quicksilver for opening this thread, and I intend to link it every time a training thread gets hijacked.


Ok some one put me in my place!! What is this nonsense that dogs are not pack animals??? Where did this information come from...someone explain it to me....I read that a few pages down on one of YorkieMother's post.

Nancy1999 08-10-2009 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akbritt (Post 2750070)
Ok some one put me in my place!! What is this nonsense that dogs are not pack animals??? Where did this information come from...someone explain it to me....I read that a few pages down on one of YorkieMother's post.

Oh I wished you hadn't asked that question. :D

QuickSilver 08-10-2009 02:31 PM

A lot of people, myself included, do not believe that dogs are all the concerned with rank position. It's a long debate, really, and there are many shades of it. How it applies with Cesar is (in my opinion), he often uses the word "dominant" to describe many different types of dog behaviors, and in many cases, the dog is just doing something because it has never been told not to do it. Anyway.

YorkieMother 08-10-2009 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chattiesmom (Post 2750065)
Opinions presented as fact such as the one in bolded red above concern and sadden me. Although I don't agree with everything he does, he is very successful and certainly does have the necessary skill set to take care of the problems he tackles. You may not agree with some or all of his methods, but he IS generally successful.

Where is the proof.... where is the studies the leg work and the rechecks by someone other then Ceasers staff, that he has any success.
Sure he does just as sure as there are failures. But where is the follow up and the proof in writing and studied. Non... hummm.
No method is 100% full proof and certainly his is less.
Voilence brings violence and not all dogs will respond to his methods.

JL

YorkieMother 08-10-2009 02:33 PM

http://www.ipdta.org/
What is abuse?



Abuse is physical or psychological injury caused by mistreatment

or the misuse of power associated with authority. It is a corrupt practice

or custom, improper or excessive use or treatment. It is a deceitful act,

it is a communication that condemns or vilifies unjustly,

intemperately and angrily.



The IPDTA defines abuse in training and behaviour modification

as the use of any tool or technique that was created or used with the intent to cause harm to a dog including but not limited to; injury, pain, fear, or mistrust, be it physical, psychological, emotional or behavioural.



Those that truly love dogs will not abuse them!!!



The IPDTA believe the following to be potentially abusive;

choke chains, pinch collars, shock equipment, alpha rollovers and other forms of physical punishment and/or domination, hanging, kicking or hitting of any kind, or any other tool or technique that causes fear or pain for the dog.



The IPDTA believe that any use of punishment, force or un-necessary restraint (exceptions such as a leash for safety) is un-necessary and unacceptable

YorkieMother 08-10-2009 02:36 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The Dominance Theory

By Norma Jeanne Laurette



Let me begin by saying I was taught the “dominance” theory - as it pertains to our pet dog's and their interactions with us, their guardians. Within my first year of instructing dog training classes, I stopped using choke chains, pinch (prong) collars, alpha rolls and all use of force or physical punishment because I quickly realized the potential harm the use of these tools could o to a dog. This potential for harm is not only physical and psychological, it can destroy the trust our dogs have in us, and as a result, the bond between a dog and its owner may be corrupted. Since trust and respect are sides of the same coin, I feel the dog's trust in its owner must be

protected at all cost. Along the same lines, I no longer use the word “obedience” in association with training due to its basic meaning according to The Oxford Dictionary, “submissive to another's will”.


At that point in my career, I didn't realize there were many trainers already using positive methods. I was convinced I was the only one in my city with the beliefs I held, and I felt very much alone. Since then, I have met so many of like-mind, and I've learned so much, and continue to learn everyday. I'm happy to say, my city now consists almost totally of “positive”trainers.


Although I no longer taught the use of tools or techniques that involved pushing or punishing, I did teach the “dominance” theory and the importance of “leading the pack”. Over the past few years this theory has been challenged, and as a result, I renewed my research on the subject. Because of what this research revealed, at this time, I no longer agree with the “dominance” concept. Here's why.



There is a common belief among dog owners and trainers alike, that dogs will challenge their owners in attempt to rise in rank, and lead the pack. This theory has been around for decades, and although still popular, many of the top canine behaviour experts now believe this concept to be incorrect, and assert that we have misinterpreted the dog's motivation by interpreting the dog’s behaviour in that manner.


Dog owners and trainers alike often use the “dominance” theory to explain a variety of canine behaviours. Trainers often use this theory to justify both the use of aversive tools and physical techniques designed to over-power the dog, with the objective of intimidating the dog into subservience in order to stop unwanted “dominant” behaviours. This type of “training” works by virtue of the concept that the dog becomes afraid to “behave” in particular ways for fear of punishment. Unfortunately, this has cost many dogs their lives. “Dominance exercises” have

been known to cause aggression and other unwanted behaviour that result in euthanasia. In one case, a trainer in Florida actually killed a dog while attempting to force it into submission. After muzzling the dog and sitting on it for over an hour, the dog lost consciousness and later that day, had to be euthanized due to its injuries. R10



The concept of “ranking” comes from the idea that a wolf will challenge another of similar rank, hopefully winning the challenge, thereby gaining higher status, and eventually, leading the pack. Many believe this behaviour has been passed down over thousands of years, affecting the behaviour of domestic dogs and their interactions with their human guardians. R1


In reality, only “unacquainted” wolves living in captivity behave in a manner that appears as though they are competing for “status”, due to confined artificially created territories. R7 In my opinion, this is just another example of wolves being forced to compete for limited resources, such as food and mating rights.


Wolf packs living in the wild are dominated by one alpha male and female breeding pair, who guide and protect their cubs. R9 As soon as they are old enough to mate, these cubs will leave the pack to find mates, and raise families of their own. This would mean that every wolf healthy enough, and able to find a mate, will be “alpha” at one time or another during its lifespan, but only when raising its young.



During the socialization period of development, a puppy is imprinted with recognition of its own species. As a result, dogs do not identify humans as “canines” or “pack members”, because we smell, think and behave differently. R2 According to John Fisher, because we are not perceived as dogs by dogs, they will not compete with us for rank. R3 With “alpha” position comes the responsibility of providing for the pack and because we provide everything the dog needs, such

as food, shelter etc., it would be counter-productive for a dog to challenge us for “alpha” position. R4


According to Coppinger, R6 dogs became isolated from their wild ancestors long ago resulting in a new species, the Canis Familiaris - the domestic dog. Although some wolf-like behaviours remain in the domestic dog, since they are a different species, it's not realistic to assume all dog behaviours will be the same as those of the wolf. However, if we choose to compare domestic dogs' behaviour to it's natural ancestors, it only makes sense that we should compare it to the wild

wolf, not wolves attempting to survive in the face of human interference. R5


Every behaviour blamed on “dominance” is normal in canine terms and can be explained by simple motivation and reinforcement. It's quite simple, dogs want good things. R11 If you saw a $100 bill lying in the street would you not pick it up? Why then is a dog helping itself to your dinner “dominant”?, when they are scavengers by nature. It's not a “dominant” dog that takes your food, it's a normal dog doing what comes naturally to its species.


This is what I believe now; one of the few commonalities between dogs and humans is – some are more assertive than others. Dogs that are more assertive will try harder to obtain valued resources, be it attention, food, comfortable sleeping places, freedom to run and explore etc. Dogs that are less assertive are quicker to relinquish the resource to a more assertive dog or human. Since it's about the resource, it stands to reason – if you can control what the dog values, you can control the dog. An assertive dog is more of a challenge to train, but it has nothing to do with dominance.


Although it may seem as though we are “splitting hairs” with terminology, the main difference is this. According to The Oxford Dictionary, “Dominance” means “in control over a group” and “assertive” means “to insist”. An assertive dog is challenging a person or another dog to win resources that it wishes to control, not in order to control the other person or dog; therefore, a dog’s competing for a desired resource has nothing to do with ranking.



The bottom line is this: if we want dogs to behave in a manner that is not natural to it's species then we have to control the environment to prevent the natural - yet unwanted behaviour. In order to do so, we have to teach new behaviours and reinforce them. Although dogs need guidance to be good companions, “dominating” them has proven to be counter-productive at the very least, and extremely abusive at its worst. It's time for us to teach those around us, dog owners and dog trainers alike, to stop blaming, labelling and punishing dogs with a “dominance” tag. When the world becomes aware that it is not only easier, but also more productive, to teach instead of punish, only then will the world be a more humane place for dogs.


References

R1 - Dominance Fact or Fiction?, Barry Eaton 2002, Page 4 – Dominance: Where Does It Come From?

R2 - Dominance Fact or Fiction?, Barry Eaton 2002, Page 4 – Pack Theory

R3 - Diary of a Dotty Dog Doctor, John Fisher 1997

R4 - Dominance Fact or Fiction?, Barry Eaton 2002, Page 5 – Pack Theory

R5 - Dominance Fact or Fiction?, Barry Eaton 2002, Page 7 – Origins Of The Pack Rules

R6 - The Domestic Dog, Edited by James Serpell 1999

R7 - Dominance Fact or Fiction? Barry Eaton 2002, Page 6 and 7 – Origins Of The Pack Rules

R8 - Dominance Fact or Fiction? Barry Eaton 2002, Page 7 – Origins Of The Pack Rules

R9 - Alpha Status, and Division of Labor in Wolf Packs, David Mech, 2000

R10 - http://www.palmbeachpost.com/pbcentr...ddog_0719.html

R11 – The Power of Positive Dog Training, Pat Miller, Howell Book House, Wiley Publishing Inc., 2001


International Positive Dog Training Association

Akbritt 08-10-2009 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuickSilver (Post 2750075)
A lot of people, myself included, do not believe that dogs are all the concerned with rank position. It's a long debate, really, and there are many shades of it. How it applies with Cesar is (in my opinion), he often uses the word "dominant" to describe many different types of dog behaviors, and in many cases, the dog is just doing something because it has never been told not to do it. Anyway.


Now, is this like a new theory, an old one, is it just an opinion? I've honestly never heard of this before.

Akbritt 08-10-2009 02:37 PM

thank you LJ...ill read that now

chattiesmom 08-10-2009 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2750057)
I think a frustration for me is that every time I give a suggestion on a training thread that I learned through Cesar's show, I'm barraged with replies about how awful Cesar is. I had a real problem with Joey when other dogs were visiting and I had to feed them both. Joey became terribly aggressive, and I read another trainer who said feed dogs in separate rooms. So that's what we did, occasionally trying to feed them in the same room, but even a treat or chew toys became problems. I learned from Cesar that establishing yourself as a pack leader is very important, and your dog must learn all food comes through you, and he suggests teaching them to sit and stay before you set the food down, and don't allow them to touch the food until you give the release command. I really didn't think it would work, Joey was a little Mike Tyson, where food was concerned, but I tried it anyway, and the very first time it worked, one trial learning that hardly ever happens! There were no fighting or switching bowls; they each ate from their own bowl. Am I being abusive by doing this? Isn't this better than them being abusive? I also learned from Cesar the difference between a power walk, and a playful walk, I had always taken Joey on playful walks, but I could see how his attitude change on the power walks, he really looked like, took on a different attitude, and seemed serious about doing this job. There are several other things I learned that helped me with Joey, but when I try to share what's helped me, I get all these responses about how Cesar's so abusive and a good pet owner would never use any of his techniques, and dogs aren't pack animals. So then all these other training threads become debate threads, and I'm just trying to share things that worked for Joey.

I think many of you overestimate how much we love Cesar, it's just many of us are grateful to have learned something that works, and his shows are interesting to watch, even if what he's doing doesn't apply to your own dog. I do think the average pet owner should become acquainted with the typical food reward training methods. I applaud you Quicksilver for opening this thread, and I intend to link it every time a training thread gets hijacked.

Nancy, I understand completely about Joey and his food aggression. I dealt with the same problem with a 1200 lb. quarter horse stallion :D. Although the specific methods were different, I taught GW that I was the boss and he had to "earn" his dinner. It was all very simple. I went into his paddock with the feed bucket and when he threw back his ears I charged him (meaning I ran in his direction from about 10 feet away screaming like a mad woman). Although he was not afraid he was alarmed and he backed up. I put his food in his bucket, gave him a pat on the neck and left. Next day same thing, day after he didn't lay his ears back, day after that he backed away from his food bucket. Now when I go to feed him I wiggle my pointer finger and he backs up until I tell him to stop. He stands while I empty the food into his bucket and signal him to come forward. His release signal to eat is to place his muzzle in the palm of my outstretched hand.

I generally combine thought processes from many trainers to come up with specific training methods. We all need to be "thinking trainers".

YorkieMother 08-10-2009 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akbritt (Post 2750084)
thank you LJ...ill read that now

Really Good short read is a book called Domince Theroy by James O Heare.
Need more let me know.

JL

chattiesmom 08-10-2009 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuickSilver (Post 2750075)
A lot of people, myself included, do not believe that dogs are all the concerned with rank position. It's a long debate, really, and there are many shades of it. How it applies with Cesar is (in my opinion), he often uses the word "dominant" to describe many different types of dog behaviors, and in many cases, the dog is just doing something because it has never been told not to do it. Anyway.

Mercury, come to my house and not only will I involve you in a horse training session, I will show you how much my little pack is concerned about rank and pack position.

It is amazing how much you can learn by observing a group of dogs. Sometimes just observing a group of dogs interacting can give you valuable insight as to how to solve doggie related problems. Even more it can help you solve people problems. :D

mjharpst 08-10-2009 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2750057)

I think many of you overestimate how much we love Cesar, it's just many of us are grateful to have learned something that works, and his shows are interesting to watch, even if what he's doing doesn't apply to your own dog. I do think the average pet owner should become acquainted with the typical food reward training methods. I applaud you Quicksilver for opening this thread, and I intend to link it every time a training thread gets hijacked.

:thumbup::thumbup:This says it all. Cesar has really helped our pack be well balanced and behaved. His techniques have worked for us. Grateful is definitely the key word.

YorkieMother 08-10-2009 02:48 PM

another really good on on Domince theroy is
http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonli...0statement.pdf

Applying Dominance Theory to Human-
Animal Interactions Can Pose Problems
Even in the relatively few cases where aggression
is related to rank, applying animal social
theory and mimicking how animals would
respond can pose a problem. First, it can cause
one to use punishment, which may suppress
aggression without addressing the underlying
cause. Because fear and anxiety are common
causes of aggression and other
behavior problems, including
those that mimic resource
guarding, the use of punishment
can directly exacerbate
the problem by increasing
the animal’s fear or anxiety
(AVSAB 2007).
Second, it fails to recognize
that with wild animals,
dominance-submissive
relationships are reinforced
through warning postures
and ritualistic dominance and
submissive displays. If the
relationship is stable, then
the submissive animal defers
automatically to the dominant
individual. If the relationship
is less stable, the dominant
individual has a more aggressive personality, or
the dominant individual is less confident about
its ability to maintain a higher rank, continued
aggressive displays occur (Yin 2007, Yin 2009).

Nancy1999 08-10-2009 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieMother (Post 2750081)



There is a common belief among dog owners and trainers alike, that dogs will challenge their owners in attempt to rise in rank, and lead the pack. This theory has been around for decades, and although still popular, many of the top canine behaviour experts now believe this concept to be incorrect, and assert that we have misinterpreted the dog's motivation by interpreting the dog’s behaviour in that manner.



It says MANY of the top canine behavior experts now believe this concept to be incorrect." This isn't the same as saying MOST, this isn't the same as saying ALL, so there could still be over half or even three fourths of the experts who still believe in it. The author of this is giving her opinion. I think the author would have chosen a different word if more than half the experts believed one way.

Akbritt 08-10-2009 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieMother (Post 2750093)
Really Good short read is a book called Domince Theroy by James O Heare.
Need more let me know.

JL


That's very interesting. Not sure if i'm buying this theory yet...but ill read the book and then form an opinion.

QuickSilver 08-10-2009 02:52 PM

I'll admit I don't work with dog packs, and that may be more similar to what is commonly thought about wolf packs, since it is often a similar situation -- unrelated members forced to live together and compete for limited resources (kind of a grim description of a home, but you know what I mean). However, I generally believe that dogs do not think we are dogs, and I really do not think they compete with us for rank status.

I have also read (and believe) that rank is fluid in many situations, and a dog/wolf that is dominant in one situation will not be in another. I ALSO don't believe that dogs feel compelled to immediately establish rank with every other dog they meet. I've read that dogs don't care about THEIR OWN rank, they just want to know everyone's place. I don't believe that either, that makes no sense in terms of species. If the top dog gets the best food, of course you care.

Finally, I don't believe resource guarding is and of itself a dominant behavior. Otherwise very submissive dogs will engage in this behavior. (By the way, I also make Thor sit & stay before he eats, and really work on NILF).

YorkieMother 08-10-2009 02:52 PM

Key Points

• Despite the fact that advances in behavior
research have modified our understanding
of social hierarchies in wolves, many animal
trainers continue to base their training methods
on outdated perceptions of dominance
theory. (Refer to Myths About Dominance
and Wolf Behavior as It Relates to Dogs)

• Dominance is defined as a relationship
between individual animals that is established
by force/aggression and submission,
to determine who has priority access to
multiple resources such as food, preferred
resting spots, and mates (Bernstein 1981;
Drews 1993). Most undesirable behaviors in
our pets are not related to priority access to
resources; rather, they are due to accidental
rewarding of the undesirable behavior.

• The AVSAB recommends that veterinarians
not refer clients to trainers or behavior
consultants who coach and advocate dominance
hierarchy theory and the subsequent
confrontational training that follows from it.

• Instead, the AVSAB emphasizes that animal
training, behavior prevention strategies,
and behavior modification programs should
follow the scientifically based guidelines of
positive reinforcement, operant conditioning,
classical conditioning, desensitization,
and counter conditioning.
• The AVSAB recommends that veterinarians
identify and refer clients only to trainers
and behavior consultants who understand
the principles of learning theory and who
focus on reinforcing desirable behaviors
and removing the reinforcement for undesirable
behaviors.


American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior

YorkieMother 08-10-2009 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akbritt (Post 2750104)
That's very interesting. Not sure if i'm buying this theory yet...but ill read the book and then form an opinion.

Happy reading and enjoy.

JL

YorkieMother 08-10-2009 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuickSilver (Post 2750105)
I'll admit I don't work with dog packs, and that may be more similar to what is commonly thought about wolf packs, since it is often a similar situation -- unrelated members forced to live together and compete for limited resources (kind of a grim description of a home, but you know what I mean). However, I generally believe that dogs do not think we are dogs, and I really do not think they compete with us for rank status.

I have also read (and believe) that rank is fluid in many situations, and a dog/wolf that is dominant in one situation will not be in another. I ALSO don't believe that dogs feel compelled to immediately establish rank with every other dog they meet. I've read that dogs don't care about THEIR OWN rank, they just want to know everyone's place. I don't believe that either, that makes no sense in terms of species. If the top dog gets the best food, of course you care.

Finally, I don't believe resource guarding is and of itself a dominant behavior. Otherwise very submissive dogs will engage in this behavior. (By the way, I also make Thor sit & stay before he eats, and really work on NILF).

You read this yet in full.http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonli...0statement.pdf

Resource guarding is not dominace it is keeping an item that one has for ones self. Even a puppy with a bone and grr at another older dog and say it is mine.
Just like if my sister walks up and yet agains trys to snag my ice cap I am going to grr at her.
Also dogs in the wild do not pack and well somes pack is not a normal setting for a dog. Just like some humans are happy alone so are some dogs.

JL

YorkieMother 08-10-2009 03:03 PM

Dominance in Dogs
Debunking the Myths of Dominance Training
By Sophia Yin
From Veterinary Forum Clinical Update March 2009


When dealing with difficult dogs in the hospital do you just have to dominate them and teach them who’s boss to get them to behave?

If your dog barks or growls or misbehaves should you throw him on his back in an alpha roll and reprimand him face to face?

When a pet greets you by jumping or rushes out the door is he vying for higher rank?


Fifteen years ago when I was just starting in practice, I and most other veterinarians would have answered, “Yes.” Almost two decades later the scientific understanding of dominance theory and social structure of dogs and their wolf relatives is making its way into the mainstream. As a result myths about dominance are being debunked and veterinarians, technicians, and trainers who have used dominance theory to guide their dog-human interactions are rethinking their techniques.




One major myth debunked by our updated scientific knowledge is that dogs misbehave generally because they are seeking higher rank, or are trying to be dominant. According to the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior’s (AVSAB) recently released position statement The Use of Dominance Theory in Behavior Modification of Animals, dominance theory has limited use in animal training and rank is rarely the motivation behind the bad behavior.

To understand why this change in thinking came about one has to first understand what dominance is.

Dominance in dogs and other animal social groups is defined as a relationship between individual animals that is established by force/aggression and submission, to determine who has priority access to multiple resources such as food, preferred resting spots, and mates (Bernstein 1981, Drews 1993). A dominance-submissive relationship does not exist until one individual consistently submits or defers. The majority of behaviors pet owners want to modify, such as excessive barking, unruly greetings, and failure to come when called, are not related to valued resources and may not even involve aggression. Rather these behaviors occur because they have been inadvertently rewarded and because alternate appropriate behaviors have not been trained.

Says E. Kathy Meyer, AVSAB president, “ Behavior modification and training should focus on the scientifically sound approach of reinforcing desirable behaviors such as sitting when greeted and removing rewards for undesirable behaviors such as jumping on people for attention when greeting them.” Reinforcers for such jumping include, petting, yelling, pushing the dog away, or playing with the dog.

This focus on a more scientific approach rather than one based on an antagonistic relationship affects not only the dog’s long term well-being, but also the owner’s safety. When using dominance theory as a guide, owners tend to meet resistance with force and this can lead to human injury.

Says AVSAB past-president Dr. John Ciribassi, “A typical scenario is a client with a 3 year old dog who has presented because of aggression directed at strangers that the dog meets either on walks or when guests come to the home. Initially the dog barks at people as they pass and backs away if approached, indicating that the aggression is due to fear.” Ciribassi continues, “The dog is referred to a trainer who suggests the dog be fitted with a pinch collar and be given a verbal and physical correction with the leash. Because the dog now feels pain when it encounters the person it fears, the aggression escalates.” As a result, now the dog lunges, snaps, and bites in situations where it used to bark and back away. Ciribassi adds “In some cases the dog is so aroused it learns to redirect its aggression towards humans.”


Some owners may also incorrectly try to pin a dog on its back and reprimand it if the dog has misbehaved in some way. This treatment is based on an incorrect understanding of what happens in the wild. For decades trainers have assumed that higher ranked wolves pin lower ranked ones in this alpha roll as a powerplay. In reality, it’s not the higher ranked wolf that forces the lower one down, rather the lower ranked one offers this ritualistic posture as a sign of deference the way one might bow or kneel before royalty. Consequently a more appropriate term for this posture would be a submissive roll (Yin 2009).

Indeed wolf biologists rarely, if ever, even use the term alpha to describe the leader of the typical wolf pack in the wild (Mech 2008), much less a body posture. Says prominent wolf biologist David Mech, “Rather than viewing a wolf pack as a group of animals organized with a ‘top dog’ that fought its way to the top, science has come to understand that most wolf packs are merely family groups formed exactly the same way as a human family.” That is maturing males and females from different packs court, mate, and produce a litter of pups. These adults naturally fall into a leadership role.

As the trend towards using dominance theory fades people may ask “What about leadership?” The AVSAB stresses that dominance and leadership are not synonymous. Leadership, or the ability to influence individuals to perform behaviors they would not necessarily perform, can be gained without force by:

Clearly defining guidelines for behavior, such as sitting patiently to ask for what you want.
Communicating these guidelines by reinforcing the desirable behaviors immediately as they occur and removing reinforcers for undesirable before they are reinforced.
Avoiding reinforcement of undesirable behaviors and only reinforcing the desirable behaviors frequently enough and consistently enough for the good behaviors to become a habit.
By dispelling the old rules of dominance in dogs and following the new guidelines of leadership, veterinarians and their staff can better handle patients and guide their clients towards proper training.



References:
Bernstein, I.S. 1981. Dominance: The baby and the bathwater. J Behav Brain Sci 4:419-57.

Drews, C. 1993. The concept and definition of dominance behavior. Behaviour 125: 284-313.

Mech, L.D. 2008. What every happened to the term alpha wolf? International Wolf. (International Wolf Center Sorry, Page not found January 1, 2009)

Yin, S. 2009. Dominance vs. Unruly Behavior. In Low Stress Handling, Restraint and Behavior Modification in Dogs and Cats. 52-73. Davis, Calif.: CattleDog Publishing.



Dominance in Dogs | Dr. Sophia Yin

Akbritt 08-10-2009 03:04 PM

Thank you

YorkieMother 08-10-2009 03:08 PM

Dog Whisperer, Dog Psychology and Cesar Millan

THE DOG WHISPERER CONTROVERSY
By Lisa Mullinax, CPDT
With the recent popularity of a television show about problem dogs, the controversy over which methods are the most humane and effective ways to address behavior problems in dogs has been renewed and is dividing dog lovers all over the world.

While behaviorists, trainers and other dog professionals recognize that the show is exposing dog owners to the possibility that their dogs' behavior can be changed, the show gives the false impression that behavior can be changed within a matter of hours. Professionals are also concerned about the methods used, as many of those methods are known to incite or increase aggressive behaviors.

This article will explore the controversial issues and will attempt to separate fact from marketing. Wherever possible, additional links or book recommendations are provided as reference or to elaborate on the preceding issue. We strongly recommend those who disagree with this article read the links and/or books provided before contacting us.

"DOG PSYCHOLOGY": FLAWED FROM ITS FOUNDATION

All explanations and answers given on the show center around "dog psychology," the idea that the dog is a pack animal and needs a pack leader. "Pack theory" was used in the past to explain dog behavior during a time when there was little to no behavioral research on dogs.

To understand why pack theory is a flawed behavioral model, it is necessary to understand its source and the modern understanding of behavior.

Dominance Theory: Wolves

Dominance was once touted as the cause and solution for behavior problems in dogs. This belief originated with studies of captive wolf packs in the 1940's and was popularized by the Monks of New Skete in 1978. This belief led to fear that these animals could physically harm us unless we "established our dominance." Methods such as alpha rolls and leash corrections were often recommended as a way for the dog owner to "establish dominance" over their dogs.


Alpha roll or omega roll? Closer observations of wolves over the last 40 years have shown that this infamous behavior is an act of submission, not dominance. A wolf voluntarily rolls on its back in a subordinate display. No contact is made, thus avoiding dangerous physical conflict.
However, there are multiple problems with modeling dog training after these beliefs:

The wolf studies were seriously flawed. First, the studies were of wolves in captivity and not in their natural habitats. Second, the wolves had been captured from different wolf packs, creating a volatile and unnatural pack structure. None of which provided researchers at the time with an accurate view of normal wolf behavior.

More in-depth studies of wolves in their natural habitats have since revealed that a wolf pack is made up of a family; the breeding pair who shares leadership, and their offspring (1), who stay with the pack until 2-3 years of age, when they start their own pack. Eventually, almost every wolf becomes an "alpha" if they survive long enough mate and breed.

Dominance Theory: Dogs

Dogs are not tame wolves. The domestic dog is a separate species that evolved from wolves approximately 14,000 years ago and exhibit behaviors that wolves do not. They also do not display the same behaviors that wolves do (2).

In Dogs: A Startling New Understanding of Canine Origin Behavior & Evolution, Ray and Lorna Coppinger write:

"Today, the popular dog press seems to feel that if dogs descended from wolves, they would have wolf qualities. But the natural selection model points out that the wolf qualities are severely modified. Dogs do not think like wolves, nor do they behave like them."

Observations of free-roaming dogs throughout the world reveal that dogs are social animals, using displays of submission to keep the peace, not displays of dominance. These dogs, sometimes referred to as pariah dogs, are more scavengers than predators, and therefore live much more solitary lives than wolves, since it does not benefit a scavenger to share limited resources with a large group of other animals. These dogs rarely form packs, and when they do, the packs are loosely structured with animals joining and leaving randomly and frequently, a trait not seen in wolf packs.

Further, the domesticated forms of wild species will, as a general rule, revert back to their original form after being feral (wild) for a few generations. Dogs, of which there are many feral types throughout the world, have not reverted back to wolves either in appearance or behavior.

All of this evidence strongly discredits the romantic notion that dogs are watered-down versions of the wolf.

'Leaders' in all animals control assets more often than they control individuals through the use of force. As stated by Myrna Milani, DVM, author and veterinary ethologist:

"...the mark of a true leader is the ability to control without force. And, in fact, wild animals who rely on brute force to maintain their status typically get eliminated from the gene pool because this approach requires so much energy."

Power struggles with dogs communicate no more leadership than an adult human in a physical struggle with a small child or an armed bank robber and his hostages.

Here's the reality, through a stroke of evolutionary luck, we were blessed with opposable thumbs which give us priority access to most, if not all, of the resources that dogs want. By maintaining control of those assets, including food, access and attention, and not giving them away for free or on demand, it is not necessary to get into power struggles with our dogs. We already have everything the dog wants. We are already "dominant." The trick is to not give those resources away for free, or on demand.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dominance Hierarchies in Wolves

"The concept, nature, and importance of the dominance hierarchy or pecking order ...itself in many species are in dispute. Similarly, in a natural wolf pack, dominance is not manifested as a pecking order and seems to have much less significance than the results of studies of captive packs had implied. In a natural wolf pack, the dominance rules bear no resemblance to those of the pecking order, that of a group of similar individuals competing for rank."

-L. David Mech
Senior Scientist
Biological Resources Division
U.S. Geological Survey

YorkieMother 08-10-2009 03:09 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dominance-based training methods are very energy-intensive for the human. They require that the human constantly react to the actions of the dog, such as a leash correction for growling, which still initially puts the dog in the lead. This is not how the "dominant" individuals behave - it is, however, how insecure individuals behave. So these "calm-assertive" methods communicate the insecurity of a bully, rather than leadership.

Humans are neither dogs nor wolves. So when we try to replicate the behavior of either, we are genetically doomed to fail. We lack the proper physiology, timing and accuracy with which to deliver the same types of signals and corrections that wolves or dogs use with one another to maintain peace.

We're not dogs and our dogs know it. We are not wolves and our dogs know it. Exerting excessive amounts of energy attempting to be something we're not doesn't communicate leadership. At best, it amuses our dogs. At worst, it makes us dangerous and unpredictable in the eyes of our dogs, which does not communicate leadership at all.

Fortunately, we have learned much more about dog behavior since the early 1900's. Just as it took centuries for mankind to accept that the earth was not flat, it may take decades for mankind to learn that dogs are not wolves and that their actions and emotions are much more complex than the simplified labels of "dominance" and "submission".

Additional Reading

Dominance in Dogs
The Dominance Controversy and Cesar Millan
AVSAB statement on Dominance Theory PDF
What Ever Happened to the Term Alpha Wolf? PDF
Debunking the Dominance Myth PDF
Moving Beyond the Dominance Myth PDF
Beyond the Dominance Paradigm
Leadership vs. Dominance
Non-Linear Dogs
Advanced Reading

Alpha Status, Dominance and Division of Labor in Wolf Packs PDF
Attachment to humans: a comparative study on hand-reared
wolves and differently socialized dog puppies
1 Leadership Behavior in Relation to Dominance and Reproductive Status in Gray Wolves
2 The Social Organization of the Domestic Dog: A Longitudinal Study of Domestic Canine Behavior and the Ontogeny of Canine Social Systems
The Domestication of Social Cognition in Dogs (abstract) PDF
Recommended Books

The Other End of the Leash (basic)
Culture Clash (intermediate)
Dominance Theory and Dogs (advanced)
EXERCISE

On the television show, a great deal of importance is placed on exercise as a dog's primary need. Dogs do need exercise. The following is not an attempt to minimize the importance of regular exercise. However, most dog breeds were developed for particular work which requires both mental and physical exercise. Dogs need mental stimulation as much as physical exercise.

Mental stimulation, through training, tracking or other working activities satisfies a dog's need for both mental and physical exercise. Walking a dog on a short leash may be easier for the human, but gives the dog little aerobic exercise and does not allow the dog to gain mental stimulation from exploring his environment as he would with off-leash activities.

Mental stimulation exercises also satisfy the needs of dogs physically incapable of exercise due to arthritis, hip dysplasia or other health problems.

Forced Exercise, such as running a dog on a treadmill might satisfy a physical need to run, but does allow the dog to choose to run, nor does it provide mental stimulation, socialization or interaction with the owner. In the Federal Animal Welfare Act, treadmills are considered forced exercise and are not permitted as as a means of satisfying the exercise requirements for dogs in kennel facilities.

Treadmills still require time on the part of the owner, as a dog on a treadmill must be constantly supervised to prevent injury and the potential for abuse is high. There are other more satisfying activities such as walks, training and sports such as agility, Rally-O, herding, tracking or lure coursing available to dog owners through breed clubs and local training groups which can provide your dog with a physical and mental outlet that fits his breed.

Behavioral Fallout. Dogs that are reactive to dogs, people or other stimulus commonly found on walks can actually get worse with continued exposure. Would it reduce your stress levels to be chased by a bear? Of course not. Your survival instincts will kick in, sending your body into stress overdrive to keep you alive.

The dog's stress levels, including cortisol and adrenaline, are elevated with each walk and exposure to the triggering stimuli (person, animal or object). Not only do elevated levels of these hormones lead to behavior problems, but they undermine the immune response, leaving the dog more susceptible to illness.

This is why effective behavior modification programs start in low-stress environments, before gradually introducing the dog to increased levels of the person, animal or object that causes the aggressive behavior. Not necessarily entertaining television, but the results are long-lasting.

A Primary Need? Contrary to the claims made on the show, a dog's primary need for survival is not, in fact, exercise. If a dog were to spend all of its time and energy exercising, it would have nothing left for establishing and protecting territory, hunting/scavenging, or raising young. Exercise is accomplished through these actions, not instead of.
Ethological studies of wild animals have revealed that when all physiological criteria are met through food abundance, shelter and there is absence of predation animals will not "exercise". The conservation of energy is of utmost importance in wild animals and unnecessary expenditure is not a viable strategy. Therefore exercise happens as a result of animals satisfying other behavioral and physiological activities (e.g. foraging for food, socializing or seeking shelter

"Canine behavior." M.W. Fox. 1989 pp. 21-31


Training and other activities provide dogs with both the mental and physical stimulation necessary for their complete well-being. Well-trained dogs are also able to enjoy off-leash activities much more often, which provides them with adequate mental and physical exercise.

Additional Articles:
Is There Such a Thing as Too Much Fetch?
Lowering Arousal PDF
Play and Exercise In Dogs PDF
Animal Welfare Act: 9CFR3.8

Book Recommendations:
The Only Dog Tricks Book You'll Ever Need
Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers

DISCIPLINE AND AFFECTION: POSITIVE DOES NOT MEAN PERMISSIVE

With a greater understanding of behavior, today's behaviorists and trainers are now using positive methods to modify even the most extreme behaviors in dogs with great results. This includes dogs with severe aggression problems that may be facing euthanasia, or "red zone" dogs.

This does not mean, however, that the dog is not given boundaries, firm rules or is only responsive when treats are present. Positive training and behavior modification methods start with setting clear boundaries and controlling the resources in the dog's life, including affection and play, which are not given to the dog for free or on demand. This is done in a way that sets the owner up to succeed, so that they can control their attention, but still enjoy their dog's company and affection.

If dog owners don't set these rules and boundaries, they will be forced to rely on punishment, as they will have no other means to motivate their dogs. Many of these dog owners give the dog what it wants for free or on demand (i.e., becoming submissive) then punish the dog for assuming a "dominant" role. This is not a dog behavior problem, but a human behavior problem.

Additional Reading
Are You the Alpha?
Nothing In Life is Free
Work to Earn

STRESS IN DOGS

One of the biggest concerns that the experts have with the television show is that many of the dogs show signs of significant stress, some even go to the point of biting the star of the show. While most people are able to recognize overt signs of stress such as barking, growling and baring teeth, dogs give numerous other subtle signals of stress before they resort to more impressive displays. Some of these subtle signals include:

Yawning
Increased respiration after little to no physical activity
Low or backward ear carriage
Repeated licking of the lips or nose
Increased and sudden shedding or dandruff
Low tail and body carriage
Tense and slow movement


If a dog is repeatedly exhibiting these signs during training, it is time to re-evaluate either the training methods, the environment, or the owner/trainer's behavior. Is the environment too stressful? Are the methods or equipment causing the dog pain? Is too much being demanded of the dog too soon?

We all need some stress to survive. Hunger is a form of stress. If we didn't feel hunger, we wouldn't eat. However, humane and dog-friendly methods don't just mean the absence of pain, it also means absence of undue stress. A dog that is stressed to the point of aggression, fear, or shutdown (learned helplessness) is physically unable to learn and any training attempted while the dog is in this state will be wasted.

Additional Reading
Canine Body Language PDF
Canine Stress Signs
Canine Calming Signals
Calming Signals Gallery

YorkieMother 08-10-2009 03:11 PM

REHABILITATION OR SUPPRESSION?

Behavior Modification is the process of changing a dog's underlying emotions by gradually exposing a dog (desensitization) to the triggering stimulus (dog, person, car, etc), then teaching an alternate behavior (counter-conditioning). This process keeps the dog below the level at which they react (commonly referred to as the threshold) and gradually teaches the dog a more desirable response under stressful situations. There is a difference between suppressing a behavior and modifying a behavior.

Suppression is typically done through the use of force or flooding. Suppression of behavior stops the behavior in the moment, but requires the dog owner to constantly repeat the steps necessary over and over. Because so many dog owners want to know "What do I do when my dog..." this feels like a solution. However, it is not actually changing the underlying cause of the behavior.

A dog with modified behavior willingly offers the alternate behavior, such as looking at the owner instead of lunging toward a strange dog, without a tight leash or physical restraint, allowing the owner to reward the more desirable behavior, rather than "correct" the undesired behavior.

Force includes punishment such as verbal corrections, leash corrections or jabbing a dog in the neck with your fingers. It can also include forcing a dog on its side or back. While techniques such as this may immediately suppress the symptoms of the problem behavior (if it does not elicit an aggressive response), the use of force can often make problems worse as the dog forms an association between the punishment and the trigger (the person, place or thing) that incites the aggressive or undesired behavior. In many cases, the frequency or form of punishment must be increased to maintain the suppression.

While there are types of punishment that can be used humanely and effectively to modify low-level training problems, the use of aversives as seen on the show suppress the symptoms of the behavior in the short-term. The long-term behavioral fallout may take months or years to surface.

Flooding. If you are afraid of spiders, will it lessen your fear if I give you a massage with a pair of tarantulas? Flooding is prolonged and forced exposure to something that is or has become unpleasant. It includes pulling a fearful dog into a swimming pool or immersing a dog-reactive dog in an environment with numerous other dogs. When a dog is flooded, they can "shut down" from stress and won't exhibit any of the problem behaviors. This is not fixing the behavior, although it appears to because the dog does not show overt signs of aggression, in fact that dog is not doing anything at all.

While true behavior modification is not a fast process, and while it certainly doesn't make for exciting television, the effects are more permanent than those gained by suppressing a behavior through the use of force or flooding.

Additional Reading

American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior Statement on Punishment
Punishment: How Not To Do It

MEDICAL CAUSES FOR BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS

Not all behavior problems are the result of a lack of training, exercise, leadership or discipline. There are many medical causes for behavior problems, as well. House training issues can be due to urinary tract infections and aggression can be a reaction to pain caused by injury or illness. Aggression could be triggered by injury or illness such as hypothyroidism.

On a recent episode of It's Me or the Dog, an American Bulldog that was exhibiting aggressive behavior towards visitors was diagnosed with hypothyroidism after the trainer recommended a vet check. The owners were previously unaware that the dog had a medical condition which was contributing to his behavior.

There are also some behaviors which do not have physical causes, but mental, such as compulsive disorders. A popular internet video shows a dog attacking its own foot. This is a very good example of an compulsive behavior problem. Problems such as this would not be modified through exercise - in fact the dog in the video exhibited this behavior after returning from walks - leadership or discipline.

A qualified professional will recognize when a behavior problem may have a medical cause and will make appropriate referrals before attempting to modify the behavior through training.

Any sudden change in behavior should always be discussed with a veterinarian.

Additional Reading
Vet Diagnoses Dogs With Compulsive Disorder

DOG PSYCHOLOGY OR POP PSYCHOLOGY?

Dog psychology or, more accurately, the study of animal behavior, is not a complete mystery that is left to the interpretation of a few individuals. While there are many areas in which our understanding is incomplete, there is a staggering amount of scientifically proven information available.

Additional Reading

Animal Trainer's Introduction to Operant and Classical Conditioning
What Were They Thinking? More Than We Knew
Clever Canines
Behavioral Science Turns to Dogs for Answers
Millennia of Human Contact Linked to Unusual Canine Cognition
Books

The Other End of the Leash
For the Love of a Dog
Dogs: A New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behavior and Evolution
How Dogs Learn
Excel-erated Learning.
CONCLUSION

Is exercise important? Absolutely! Do dogs need rules and boundaries? Certainly! Do humans need to stop equating dogs to humans and gain a greater understanding of dog behavior? Definitely! But how these goals are accomplished are of equal importance.

A basic understanding of canine behavior can give dog owners the knowledge they need to determine the right training methods for their dog and avoid those methods that offer new age explanations or pop psychology to sell old and potentially dangerous methods in a new package.

The fact that the show's very foundation is flawed should be enough to make dog owners think twice before buying into the methods promoted. However, in our media-centric society, if it's on television, it must be true.

Part II: Frequently Asked Questions

WHAT OTHERS ARE SAYING

Dog Whisperer Approach More Harmful Than Helpful

Training Philosophies

He Ought To Call Himself The Dog Screamer

Review Sent to National Geographic

Pros and Cons of the Cesar Phenomenon

Cesar Contends "I Help The Dogs," Experts Question His Approach

Interview with Cesar Millan mp3

The Anti-Cesar Millan

Beyond the Dominance Paradigm

Producer Sues TV's Dog Whisperer

Pack of Lies

Misguided Expert of the Year


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