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Old 01-21-2006, 06:55 AM   #31
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Ha, I just noticed in Trixie's pedigree that she has Stardust in her line... Apparantly in her five generation pedigree are two Stardust Yorkshire Terriers. It's far far away, though.

BTW I love Stardust Joey on her website (the puppy section), what a pretty pup!
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Old 01-21-2006, 07:20 AM   #32
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I love Stardust Yorkies!!! They have such beautiful yorkies and puppies Those of you who have shared your pics have beautiful babies
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Old 01-21-2006, 08:21 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyorkies
Susan told me one time she does not do any emailing.. So I would give her a call..

I just brought home with me tonight a male that I bought from a friend that is out of two Stardust yorkies from Susan.. We named him "Dylan" his sire is starting to be shown and his grandsires are CH Stardust Firecracker (Jake) and CH Windwood Trouble N' Rivercity (Adam)..

I did at one time have another male from Stardust, but I have placed him.. He was the larger size, around 7 lbs, I also did not particular care for his head for showing.. But I love my new Dylan! I have attached some pictures that I took of him this evening..

Melanie
I saw the same advertisement for your new guy in the Indy paper. You beat me to him. I called and talked with Dawn also.

She mentioned that she had heard of you thru Raymond as you both had Parquins bloodlines. She said it was very nice to meet you and she was happy that her little guy was going to a show home. She was very excited about this guy - he is 16 weeks old. Not to much longer and you can start him in the puppy classes.

She plans to be at the show In Indy- has a older puppy that will be in the puppy classes. Should be exciting - another person here in Indiana showing and having fun.

This should give you quite a housefull of babies to choose from to show in the spring and later this summer.

I have Stardust in the background of some of my kids also. It is acouple of generations back on most of them including Buster.
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Old 01-21-2006, 08:30 AM   #34
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I am planning to have Heidi and Vickie bred with Stardust males . One is in Canada and the other in the U.S.A .
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Old 01-21-2006, 09:44 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkie mom
Well I guess im on the other end of the spectrum on this subject. I bought a male from Susan last yr. I was very unhappy with what i got. I specified what i was looking for and paid for and got the oppisite! I lost alot of money!
I had asked for a male 4-4.5# max told her which dogs others had that i liked and she knew i wanted him for stud i asked for a babydoll face. What i got was more of a terrier look long muzzel male that grew to be almost 7 pds when i placed him at 6 mo old. I never got to see him before i got him i just trusted she would send me what i had paid for. I was not happy at all
Make shure you see what you are getting jmo
When you purchase a puppy before at least 6 months old, there are NO promises! It truly would be better to wait until 9 months old honestly.. Susan has some wonderful lines, but not all lines go well together.. You also very rarely get a whole litter of perfect yorkies that meet the standard 100%..

My "Dylan" did NOT come from Susan.. I have a friend that has four yorkies from Susan and my Dylan came from her! So I was able to lay my hands on him and see both of his parents in person and they both are gorgeous yorkies, IMHO.. But Dylan is still a very young puppy and can fall apart before he is old enough to be shown.. You ALWAYS take a gamble when you purchase a young puppy..
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Old 01-21-2006, 09:49 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by wnalegria
I saw the same advertisement for your new guy in the Indy paper. You beat me to him. I called and talked with Dawn also.

She mentioned that she had heard of you thru Raymond as you both had Parquins bloodlines. She said it was very nice to meet you and she was happy that her little guy was going to a show home. She was very excited about this guy - he is 16 weeks old. Not to much longer and you can start him in the puppy classes.

She plans to be at the show In Indy- has a older puppy that will be in the puppy classes. Should be exciting - another person here in Indiana showing and having fun.

This should give you quite a housefull of babies to choose from to show in the spring and later this summer.

I have Stardust in the background of some of my kids also. It is acouple of generations back on most of them including Buster.
Dawn is a wonderful person.. She has been breeding for over 10 years and is just now getting into the showing part of the yorkie world! She has worked very hard on her program and it shows by the quality of what she is producing! I think she is going to be a wonderful addition to the yorkie show world!
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Old 01-21-2006, 10:19 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkie mom
Well I guess im on the other end of the spectrum on this subject. I bought a male from Susan last yr. I was very unhappy with what i got. I specified what i was looking for and paid for and got the oppisite! I lost alot of money!
I had asked for a male 4-4.5# max told her which dogs others had that i liked and she knew i wanted him for stud i asked for a babydoll face. What i got was more of a terrier look long muzzel male that grew to be almost 7 pds when i placed him at 6 mo old. I never got to see him before i got him i just trusted she would send me what i had paid for. I was not happy at all
Make shure you see what you are getting jmo
This is not directed towards you. I am just shedding some light on how others may be able to avoid situations similar to yours. I am sure you were disappointed, but I think some of your heartache could have been avoided.

I don't know Susan, but buying something for breeding and trusting someone one else to pick it out for you is a gamble. Her idea of baby face may be different than yours, I have some friends that have the same taste in Yorkies as I do, but I would still prefer to pick out a puppy myself. And a puppy under 8 or 9 months is still a gamble IMO. I bought my stud at 2 yrs of age. There was no mistaking what I was getting (by the pictures anyway) but his age he was mature and in full coat and EXACTLY what I wanted. As for the size, some have growth spurts. As much as I THINK I know what a specific mating will produce. Something is bound to prove me wrong..hahaha...
Here's a prefect example:
I have bred Sutlan and Kricket 3 times each time the pups today range from 4-6 pounds..most being 4-5...there is one that was the same size as the rest until he was 9 months old and he kept growing..he's 8 pounds. I did not predict him to be that big but I certainly didn't guarantee he'd be a specific weight. The couple that owns him bought him and his 2 brothers so monitoring the growth spurts was very easy. I would have never guess Sultan and Kricket would produce an 8 pound Yorkie in that litter of 4....
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Old 01-21-2006, 11:47 AM   #38
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Loki is Stardust, I got him directly from Susan. I did my research and had a good impression of her. However, Loki was just diagnosed with a Grade 2 Luxating Patella. I called her immediately in case she wanted to get the parents checked and to find out of she had seen this in her lines before and she brushed it off as no big deal and all Yorkies have bad knees. I don't agree and I am upset about that. (It sure was a big deal with he had to sit out of an entire obedience class because his knee popped out, and when he couldn't even pee last week because he couldn't squat, and when the vet told me he may need surgery eventually!!)

Loki is beatiful, though big at 9 lbs he is skiny love and tall. She said he'd be around 7 and I don't think anyone would have predicted he'd be so tall and long. People go out of their way to tell me how cute he is. Again, HOWEVER, I was stupid and did not see his parents. She had him at her house and she did not have the parents. She said he was bred by a co-breeder in IOWA and she did not have the parents at her home.

He was 13 weeks old so I was satisfied that she was not trying to sell him too soon, but now I understand that they need to stay until they are 12 weeks to learn things FROM MOM. He is good around people and loves kids, but he is a bully around other dogs. We have socialized him from the beginning AND have done obedience classes once a week for his entire life - and he still growls and snaps at other dogs. He also has snapped at ME for taking things out of his mouth, etc.

He barks A LOT and growls and we do NOT encourage it. 99% of the time he is a wonderful dog, but with ALL of the positive training we have done EVEN allowing for the fact that he is a terrier I still feel that his temperament is not the best. I get embarrased when I tell people he is in advanced obedience classes yet he can't even behave at Petsmart around another dog. Again, my fault for not seeing the parents (and walking away when they weren't available.) I love him to death and waited my whole life for a dog, and he is super smart and a cool little pup, but knowing what I do now... I will get a breeder recommendation from my trainer next time. I won't go back.

P.S. Do any of you know why she does it like this? I did some research on the co-breeder and she is on Stewie'sMom's USDA list.
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Old 01-21-2006, 12:21 PM   #39
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I do not know this breeder. I do know that a puppy they personally delivered to their client was full of earmites. It's not like this was a life threatening disease or anything, but if you don't go over the little things...you're just subjecting your client to future expenses especially if they have other animals in their home that will be exposed. Not to mention the headache. Maybe it was accidently overlooked on the breeder's part. But they were there and I don't believe that it is possilbe for only one dog in a group to have earmites. Its a "community" problem.

I'm gonna add that I do admire the beautiful yorkies on the site. But I need to be kept much more informed on any baby I may purchase and receive lots of pictures if i am not able to personally meet with the breeder. I MUST see the father and the MOTHER. This in not always the case at this kennel I believe. I'm also not going to name any names...but the people who were involved in this know exactly what I'm talking about.
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Old 01-21-2006, 05:49 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin
Loki is Stardust, I got him directly from Susan. I did my research and had a good impression of her. However, Loki was just diagnosed with a Grade 2 Luxating Patella. I called her immediately in case she wanted to get the parents checked and to find out of she had seen this in her lines before and she brushed it off as no big deal and all Yorkies have bad knees. I don't agree and I am upset about that. (It sure was a big deal with he had to sit out of an entire obedience class because his knee popped out, and when he couldn't even pee last week because he couldn't squat, and when the vet told me he may need surgery eventually!!)

Loki is beatiful, though big at 9 lbs he is skiny love and tall. She said he'd be around 7 and I don't think anyone would have predicted he'd be so tall and long. People go out of their way to tell me how cute he is. Again, HOWEVER, I was stupid and did not see his parents. She had him at her house and she did not have the parents. She said he was bred by a co-breeder in IOWA and she did not have the parents at her home.

He was 13 weeks old so I was satisfied that she was not trying to sell him too soon, but now I understand that they need to stay until they are 12 weeks to learn things FROM MOM. He is good around people and loves kids, but he is a bully around other dogs. We have socialized him from the beginning AND have done obedience classes once a week for his entire life - and he still growls and snaps at other dogs. He also has snapped at ME for taking things out of his mouth, etc.

He barks A LOT and growls and we do NOT encourage it. 99% of the time he is a wonderful dog, but with ALL of the positive training we have done EVEN allowing for the fact that he is a terrier I still feel that his temperament is not the best. I get embarrased when I tell people he is in advanced obedience classes yet he can't even behave at Petsmart around another dog. Again, my fault for not seeing the parents (and walking away when they weren't available.) I love him to death and waited my whole life for a dog, and he is super smart and a cool little pup, but knowing what I do now... I will get a breeder recommendation from my trainer next time. I won't go back.

P.S. Do any of you know why she does it like this? I did some research on the co-breeder and she is on Stewie'sMom's USDA list.
I am sorry to hear about your little guy! I honestly believe NO pup/dog should suffer from any genetic illness.. But I have spoke to many many show breeders and to most of them patella issues are not a problem.. I personally do NOT feel the same way.. A reputable breeder rather just breeding or showing will make positive that a puppy with a genetic issue is GIVEN to the best home possible! I have personally never had to deal with patella issues in one of my puppies, which that makes me so far a VERY lucky breeder.. But I have bought my share of so-called show yorkies that have had bad patellas and were spay/neuter and placed into a loving pet home..

Like I had mentioned earlier I do NOT purchase my boy from Susan..

Do you have a problem stating who is the sire and dam to your pup?
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Old 01-21-2006, 07:55 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin
Loki is Stardust, I got him directly from Susan. I did my research and had a good impression of her. However, Loki was just diagnosed with a Grade 2 Luxating Patella. I called her immediately in case she wanted to get the parents checked and to find out of she had seen this in her lines before and she brushed it off as no big deal and all Yorkies have bad knees. I don't agree and I am upset about that. (It sure was a big deal with he had to sit out of an entire obedience class because his knee popped out, and when he couldn't even pee last week because he couldn't squat, and when the vet told me he may need surgery eventually!!)

Loki is beatiful, though big at 9 lbs he is skiny love and tall. She said he'd be around 7 and I don't think anyone would have predicted he'd be so tall and long. People go out of their way to tell me how cute he is. Again, HOWEVER, I was stupid and did not see his parents. She had him at her house and she did not have the parents. She said he was bred by a co-breeder in IOWA and she did not have the parents at her home.

He was 13 weeks old so I was satisfied that she was not trying to sell him too soon, but now I understand that they need to stay until they are 12 weeks to learn things FROM MOM. He is good around people and loves kids, but he is a bully around other dogs. We have socialized him from the beginning AND have done obedience classes once a week for his entire life - and he still growls and snaps at other dogs. He also has snapped at ME for taking things out of his mouth, etc.

He barks A LOT and growls and we do NOT encourage it. 99% of the time he is a wonderful dog, but with ALL of the positive training we have done EVEN allowing for the fact that he is a terrier I still feel that his temperament is not the best. I get embarrased when I tell people he is in advanced obedience classes yet he can't even behave at Petsmart around another dog. Again, my fault for not seeing the parents (and walking away when they weren't available.) I love him to death and waited my whole life for a dog, and he is super smart and a cool little pup, but knowing what I do now... I will get a breeder recommendation from my trainer next time. I won't go back.

P.S. Do any of you know why she does it like this? I did some research on the co-breeder and she is on Stewie'sMom's USDA list.

Hi, Erin.

Gosh, I remember when you first posted about getting Loki.

I'm sorry to hear that he has L.P. Who are his sire and dam? did he possibly injure his knee while playing? One of my girls: Sydney, injured one of her knees and tore the ligament, as well. She had surgery and recovered so well, even our vet has to check her records to see which knee.

I got one of my girls from Susan 7 years ago, this March. Kia is tiny, 4#s. and she is really feisty! "Talks" to me all the time!

Did Susan ask you anything at all about Loki's knee?

Sheila
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Old 01-21-2006, 08:49 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyorkies
I am sorry to hear about your little guy! I honestly believe NO pup/dog should suffer from any genetic illness.. But I have spoke to many many show breeders and to most of them patella issues are not a problem.. I personally do NOT feel the same way.. A reputable breeder rather just breeding or showing will make positive that a puppy with a genetic issue is GIVEN to the best home possible! I have personally never had to deal with patella issues in one of my puppies, which that makes me so far a VERY lucky breeder.. But I have bought my share of so-called show yorkies that have had bad patellas and were spay/neuter and placed into a loving pet home..

Like I had mentioned earlier I do NOT purchase my boy from Susan..

Do you have a problem stating who is the sire and dam to your pup?
It's reassuring to hear that not all breeders feel this is a non-issue. I truly feel like it could impact his quality of life. The vet told me it is not painful, but it does effect him. Again I feel like it is my fault for not looking into this, but I did so much research before buying him and so many people even on this board raved about his lines that I thought I did enough! My trainer said usually the only way people learn is to do it wrong the first time.

As far as his parents, I don't see why I can't list that info? It's on his papers. Molly Malone and Supreme Kort. Neither of them have Ch's although there are a lot listed on here. I have his pedigree back 4 generations. Also, he has the same great grandfather listed on each side, Mischief Maker and he has a Ch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorkieville200
Did Susan ask you anything at all about Loki's knee?
She just asked what grade it was. The vet said it is at a 2 now but as he gets older it could get worse, or not. But the vet said he can't do agility I assume because he could get hurt. Vet & trainer (a breeder herself of another breed) said it IS genetic and not caused by injury or jumping. I asked if I should restrict his activity and both said no. It will not heal. He likes to run and jump like all Yorkies. That just wouldn't be fair to him.

Anyway, once I said it was a grade 2 Susan just said that grade 1 and 2 are "no big deal" and that they (breeders?) don't worry about it until it's at a 3 or a 4. She said surgery is not done until 4, although according to the information the vet gave me, grade 3 means once it pops out it will not pop back in by itself, which I think is very serious for such an active dog. I asked if she wanted the names of his parents so she could test them (OFA) and she said no one OFA's Yorkies and that she'd take the parents names but she hasn't had other issues. Maybe that's true, I know there are throwbacks and recessive genes and other things, I've had advanced biology :-) Maybe no one has called back to tell her, I don't know. I'll never know. But I do wish I knew was OFA was a year ago!

No matter what I would never give him up or give him back, I just feel like I did the research and we're having to deal with issues we should not have. He's still my awesome little kid, but I could do without the growling/agression. We're working on that and we have the best trainer I could ever ask for so while I think he will always have agression issues I'm confident we can manage them, but only because we take the time to train him every day and send him to the trainer's often for daycare (aka bootcamp). I just worry what would have happened if he got placed in a home with someone who did not do these things. I know a LOT of people do not formally train their dogs. He'd be seriously running the show and that would be very bad. My parents aren't strict with him and he walks all over them. He growls and barks at my husband when he comes in the room, even though he does 75% of Loki's training and they are together all day without issues, until Loki throws a temper trantrum for no reason. We meet big dogs and he barks in their faces and the other person corrects their dog and apologizes and won't believe me when I explain my tiny dog is a total bully. Where does the aggression come from? He is *very* well exercised and has been immersed in obedience (and socialization) from the very beginning. Can it be genetics? I'm probably overthinking it. Sorry for going on, I'm just trying to sort all of this out and learn something from it. Hopefully by learning why he is like this I can do more to solve the problem.

Thanks for asking about him, I really appreciate it.
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Old 01-21-2006, 08:57 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin
It's reassuring to hear that not all breeders feel this is a non-issue. I truly feel like it could impact his quality of life. The vet told me it is not painful, but it does effect him. Again I feel like it is my fault for not looking into this, but I did so much research before buying him and so many people even on this board raved about his lines that I thought I did enough! My trainer said usually the only way people learn is to do it wrong the first time.

As far as his parents, I don't see why I can't list that info? It's on his papers. Molly Malone and Supreme Kort. Neither of them have Ch's although there are a lot listed on here. I have his pedigree back 4 generations. Also, he has the same great grandfather listed on each side, Mischief Maker and he has a Ch.



She just asked what grade it was. The vet said it is at a 2 now but as he gets older it could get worse, or not. But the vet said he can't do agility I assume because he could get hurt. Vet & trainer (a breeder herself of another breed) said it IS genetic and not caused by injury or jumping. I asked if I should restrict his activity and both said no. It will not heal. He likes to run and jump like all Yorkies. That just wouldn't be fair to him.

Anyway, once I said it was a grade 2 Susan just said that grade 1 and 2 are "no big deal" and that they (breeders?) don't worry about it until it's at a 3 or a 4. She said surgery is not done until 4, although according to the information the vet gave me, grade 3 means once it pops out it will not pop back in by itself, which I think is very serious for such an active dog. I asked if she wanted the names of his parents so she could test them (OFA) and she said no one OFA's Yorkies and that she'd take the parents names but she hasn't had other issues. Maybe that's true, I know there are throwbacks and recessive genes and other things, I've had advanced biology :-) Maybe no one has called back to tell her, I don't know. I'll never know. But I do wish I knew was OFA was a year ago!

No matter what I would never give him up or give him back, I just feel like I did the research and we're having to deal with issues we should not have. He's still my awesome little kid, but I could do without the growling/agression. We're working on that and we have the best trainer I could ever ask for so while I think he will always have agression issues I'm confident we can manage them, but only because we take the time to train him every day and send him to the trainer's often for daycare (aka bootcamp). I just worry what would have happened if he got placed in a home with someone who did not do these things. I know a LOT of people do not formally train their dogs. He'd be seriously running the show and that would be very bad. My parents aren't strict with him and he walks all over them. He growls and barks at my husband when he comes in the room, even though he does 75% of Loki's training and they are together all day without issues, until Loki throws a temper trantrum for no reason. We meet big dogs and he barks in their faces and the other person corrects their dog and apologizes and won't believe me when I explain my tiny dog is a total bully. Where does the aggression come from? He is *very* well exercised and has been immersed in obedience (and socialization) from the very beginning. Can it be genetics? I'm probably overthinking it. Sorry for going on, I'm just trying to sort all of this out and learn something from it. Hopefully by learning why he is like this I can do more to solve the problem.

Thanks for asking about him, I really appreciate it.
I feel for you and especially for your lil' guy! I wish that breeders would NOT breed dogs with this genetic problem or any other.. But so many breeders think LP is nothing.. I have seen some toy breeders not be able to walk and have to drag theirselves around because they are grade 4 and their rear legs have actually went lame.. I think seeing a grade 1 is common because of the structure of a toy breed..

What bothers me about the breeder of Stardust is that she says in her ads that she has a guarantee, but I have heard quite a few of complaints which she does NOTHING about.. If you are not going to guarantee your dogs you should not say that you do!
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Old 01-22-2006, 05:38 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin
It's reassuring to hear that not all breeders feel this is a non-issue. I truly feel like it could impact his quality of life. The vet told me it is not painful, but it does effect him. Again I feel like it is my fault for not looking into this, but I did so much research before buying him and so many people even on this board raved about his lines that I thought I did enough! My trainer said usually the only way people learn is to do it wrong the first time.

As far as his parents, I don't see why I can't list that info? It's on his papers. Molly Malone and Supreme Kort. Neither of them have Ch's although there are a lot listed on here. I have his pedigree back 4 generations. Also, he has the same great grandfather listed on each side, Mischief Maker and he has a Ch.



She just asked what grade it was. The vet said it is at a 2 now but as he gets older it could get worse, or not. But the vet said he can't do agility I assume because he could get hurt. Vet & trainer (a breeder herself of another breed) said it IS genetic and not caused by injury or jumping. I asked if I should restrict his activity and both said no. It will not heal. He likes to run and jump like all Yorkies. That just wouldn't be fair to him.

Anyway, once I said it was a grade 2 Susan just said that grade 1 and 2 are "no big deal" and that they (breeders?) don't worry about it until it's at a 3 or a 4. She said surgery is not done until 4, although according to the information the vet gave me, grade 3 means once it pops out it will not pop back in by itself, which I think is very serious for such an active dog. I asked if she wanted the names of his parents so she could test them (OFA) and she said no one OFA's Yorkies and that she'd take the parents names but she hasn't had other issues. Maybe that's true, I know there are throwbacks and recessive genes and other things, I've had advanced biology :-) Maybe no one has called back to tell her, I don't know. I'll never know. But I do wish I knew was OFA was a year ago!

No matter what I would never give him up or give him back, I just feel like I did the research and we're having to deal with issues we should not have. He's still my awesome little kid, but I could do without the growling/agression. We're working on that and we have the best trainer I could ever ask for so while I think he will always have agression issues I'm confident we can manage them, but only because we take the time to train him every day and send him to the trainer's often for daycare (aka bootcamp). I just worry what would have happened if he got placed in a home with someone who did not do these things. I know a LOT of people do not formally train their dogs. He'd be seriously running the show and that would be very bad. My parents aren't strict with him and he walks all over them. He growls and barks at my husband when he comes in the room, even though he does 75% of Loki's training and they are together all day without issues, until Loki throws a temper trantrum for no reason. We meet big dogs and he barks in their faces and the other person corrects their dog and apologizes and won't believe me when I explain my tiny dog is a total bully. Where does the aggression come from? He is *very* well exercised and has been immersed in obedience (and socialization) from the very beginning. Can it be genetics? I'm probably overthinking it. Sorry for going on, I'm just trying to sort all of this out and learn something from it. Hopefully by learning why he is like this I can do more to solve the problem.

Thanks for asking about him, I really appreciate it.
Hi, Erin.

I really feel bad about Loki. His great grandsire, CH. Mischief Maker, is my Kia's sire. (Smooth As Silk is her Dam.)

It concerns me that Susan wasn't concerned when you told her that your vet said the L.P. is genetic.

I will tell you one thing; Kia has a bad over-bite. I did drop Susan a note in the mail about it. (Like you, I thought she might want to know about genetic issues. I wasn't expecting her to do anyhting for me, because I knew bites were not guaranteed. And I wouldn't have given Kia up for anything in the world! Because other than the bite, she's perfect!)

Did you tell Susan that the co-breeder is on StewiesMoms USDA breeders list? Who is the co-breeder?

I wonder why a breeder of her caliber would breed two dogs that neither is a champion. And no champions until that far back.

Reading your description of Loki's personality helps me understand why my Kia is such a barker. She's not agressive though, just "bossy". (Guess she figures someone has to tell me what to do and when to do it.)

Sheila
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Old 01-22-2006, 07:30 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Yorkieville200
Hi, Erin.

I really feel bad about Loki. His great grandsire, CH. Mischief Maker, is my Kia's sire. (Smooth As Silk is her Dam.)

It concerns me that Susan wasn't concerned when you told her that your vet said the L.P. is genetic.

I will tell you one thing; Kia has a bad over-bite. I did drop Susan a note in the mail about it. (Like you, I thought she might want to know about genetic issues. I wasn't expecting her to do anyhting for me, because I knew bites were not guaranteed. And I wouldn't have given Kia up for anything in the world! Because other than the bite, she's perfect!)

Did you tell Susan that the co-breeder is on StewiesMoms USDA breeders list? Who is the co-breeder?

I wonder why a breeder of her caliber would breed two dogs that neither is a champion. And no champions until that far back.

Reading your description of Loki's personality helps me understand why my Kia is such a barker. She's not agressive though, just "bossy". (Guess she figures someone has to tell me what to do and when to do it.)

Sheila
Actually Ch. Shakespeare's Cheatin Heart is Kort's Sire, and I think they liked that sire so much that they bred his son. Otherwise I agree, after doing more research I'm not sure why that would be done. All she could talk about was how beautiful Kort's puppies were. He has a DNA# on his papers, I have found out just means that the sire was used more than the "allowed" number of times in a certain time period so they had to DNA test the litters. Not a bad thing in itself but it can point to larger scale breeding.

I did not let her know about the co-breeder, I just looked that up the other day. (I assumed since I purchased the dog from Susan the other breeder was not an issue, guess I was wrong again.) I have been doing some more follow up research just for my own knowledge and since I did not see the parents I was concerned about a broker/puppy mill, which of course is everyone's fear. I'm confident that he did not come from a mill, however I do feel that he may not have gotten the personal attention that I originally thought he did.

The overbite is funny! Because when we went to the vet last week the first thing she said when she opened his mouth was "nice teeth!" so I guess he doesn't have one. Dogs with overbites are so cute, does her little tongue stick out sometimes?

I don't know that Loki is truly agressive either, but bossy is definately the right word. It's such a struggle not to give in because he's so darn cute. But we don't let him get away with it. He just tries and tries to get us to do what he wants and then gives up and THEN we get up and play with him or whatever. He's on what the trainer calls the no free lunch program. He has to work for everything. Sit, leash on, sit, leash off, tricks for treats, etc. I'm happy when he barks at someone outside, but he'll just start barking his head off when he wants someone to stand in the kitchen and watch him eat. Or he will "ask" to go outside then start barking at you when you put his leash on, like "That's NOT what I wanted!!". If he were a toddler he'd be on the ground crying, screaming, kicking and throwing a fit.

The reason that he gets into trouble with dogs is that he is not polite. I don't think that's agression either, but again a short temper. He doesnt go in looking to pick a fight. There are dog/dog social rules and he breaks them every time. He sniffs other dog, other dog sniffs him and he freaks out! It's like he never learned the rules. I think that's where the 10-12 week socialization (or lack of) comes though. He's just very immature.

When you got Kia did you get to see the parents?

Re: the guarantee. I was specifically told when we bought him that it was a return the puppy for a new one guarantee. Now, EVERYONE gets attached to their puppy even if it gets sick 3 days later. But for something like LP that shows up now a year later, I mean besides the fact that he is our CHILD I have put so much into training & socialization. No WAY would I trade him in and start over. Most people would never consider that. So even though there is a guarantee, I never put much faith in it to begin with and I supposed others shouldn't either. I just don't want this to happen again. It's nice to hear from breeders who do take that guarantee seriously. Thanks for that.

Honestly, going through all of this makes me want to become a breeder some day so that I can make the choices and try to prevent some of these things from happening. It's not something I'd do any time soon, maybe in 10 or 20 years if I found the right people to help me do it right, but I can't imagine anything more rewarding than helping to improve the breed I love so much.
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