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Old 05-20-2014, 06:38 AM   #1
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Default Puppies of a 'misalliance'

Hi
A few days after I got my year old Yorkie, she got away from me in the park. I didn't know she was on heat and she had a 'misalliance' with a German Spitz. She is a fairly large Yorkie (4.6kg) but he was a bit bigger than her. I was planning to get an emergency spay but pulled out after a scan confirmed she is definitely carrying 3 or 4 puppies. I just didn't have the heart to kill them. I am now giving her proper antenatal care, but have a few questions. What do I actually need for whelping? The products available are overwhelming me! Any clue what the puppies will be like? The vet has no idea. I am not worried about finding homes as I'm in London, England and unusual hybrids are quite popular. The father is a pedigree stud dog and the breed is supposedly valuable. Wish Lola's puppies were going to be pure Yorkies (she now has a Yorkie boyfriend called Bombi), but I'm sure they'll be beautiful anyway. Any advice gratefully received.
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Old 05-20-2014, 07:52 AM   #2
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Before "professional breeders" devote years and years of studying pedigrees and lines of dogs, and learning what lines will work well with each other to produce puppies that exemplfy the breed of dog they are devoted to preserving, as well as all the genetic issues that can be brought into play when such careful and thoughtful planning goes into breeding two dogs, the last thing we ask ourselves is, "Will this litter that is PLANNED so carefully and lovingly, be worth the life of my bitch?", because it could easily cost her that. An emergency spay to terminate this unplanned litter, would have certainly been the best choice for your Yorkie, but I can see from your post your feelings definately are with the puppies and not the best interest or safety of the momma....."unusual hybrids are quite popular.....the breed is supposedly valuable.....". I will pray for your unfortunate little Yorkie, that she survives this "misalliance", and that the babies that are being produced will at the very least, be healthy and survive the whelp. "Yorkies for Dummies" is an excellent book that is required reading for Yorkie owners. Far above the excitment of all the cute and wonderful goodies available for puppies, you should be preparing YOURSELF with a solid, working knowledge base about what is about to happen to your momma, her babies, and what YOUR responsibilities are going to be in this misadventure. The very first thing you need to know, is when a female is in heat. That happens about every 6 months, starting at age 6-8 months. Please educate yourself, as I suspect you have planned to become a "breeder", and because you got your intact female before you educated yourself in the minimum required principles and ethics of breeding, and she quickly got ahead of your learning curve, you and she and a litter of unplanned babies are now actually facing a very risky and unknown future. Learning very hard lessons, often heartbreaking lessons, is part of building a solid foundation for any person's development in their choice of adventures. For ethical breeders, breeders with integrity and accountability, and responsibility for what they are producing, we MUST remember to do NO harm first, and that it all about the puppies we are choosing to produce, puppies that should be representative of the breed we are breeding. Mother Nature will take care of producing all the unfortunate "misalliances", and they will hopefully end up with loving families and not in pounds and rescues or dying on the highways, starving in ditches in the cold and rain.....THAT is Mother Nature's way.....professional breeders have to possess the direction, the CONTROL, the love and devotion to their breed of choice, to make certain that every puppy they produce has a future, and is a template for the breed standard of the breed they are. As a responsible, ethical breeder, knowing the consequences of unplanned breedings on the bitch as well as the litter, is the guiding force that makes decisions about what we must do with our breeders.....terminating unplanned and unresearched hook ups with strange dogs of different breeds or pedigrees, is not something that is done lightheartedly, but must be an option for the safety and well being of the bitch that outsmarted her human that is supposed to be in charge and responsible for her well being.

Last edited by Yorkiemom1; 05-20-2014 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 05-20-2014, 07:57 AM   #3
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Before "professional breeders" devote years and years of studying pedigrees and lines of dogs, and learning what lines will work well with each other to produce puppies that exemplfy the breed of dog they are devoted to preserving, as well as all the genetic issues that can be brought into play when such careful and thoughtful planning goes into breeding two dogs, the last thing we ask ourselves is, "Will this litter that is PLANNED so carefully and lovingly, be worth the life of my bitch?", because it could easily cost her that. An emergency spay to terminate this unplanned litter, would have certainly been the best choice for your Yorkie, but I can see from your post your feelings definately are with the puppies and not the best interest or safety of the momma....."unusual hybrids are quite popular.....the breed is supposedly valuable.....". are I will pray for your unfortunate little Yorkie, that she survives this "misalliance", and that the babies that are being produced will at the very least, be healthy and survive the whelp. "Yorkies for Dummies" is an excellent book that is required reading for Yorkie owners. Far above the excitment of all the cute and wonderful goodies available for puppies, you should be preparing YOURSELF with a solid, working knowledge base about what is about to happen to your momma, her babies, and what YOUR responsibilities are going to be in this misadventure. The very first thing you need to know, is when a female is in heat. That happens about every 6 months, starting at age 6-8 months. Please educate yourself, as I suspect you have planned to become a "breeder", and because you got your intact female before you educated yourself in the minimum required principles and ethics of breeding, and she quickly got ahead of your learning curve, you and she and a litter of unplanned babies are now actually facing a very risky and unknown future. Learning very hard lessons, often heartbreaking lessons, is part of building a solid foundation for any person's development in their choice of adventures. For ethical breeders, breeders with integrity and accountability, and responsibility for what they are producing, we MUST remember to do NO harm first, and that it all about the puppies we are choosing to produce, puppies that should be representative of the breed we are breeding. Mother Nature will take care of producing all the unfortunate "misalliances", and they will hopefully end up with loving families and not in pounds and rescues or dying on the highways, starving in ditches in the cold and rain.....THAT is Mother Nature's way.....professional breeders have to possess the direction, the CONTROL, the love and devotion to their breed of choice, to make certain that every puppy they produce has a future, and is a template for the breed standard of the breed they are. As a responsible, ethical breeder, knowing the consequences of unplanned breedings on the bitch as well as the litter, is the guiding force that makes decisions about what we must do with our breeders.....terminating unplanned and unresearched hook ups with strange dogs of different breeds or pedigrees, is not something that is done lightheartedly, but must be an option for the safety and well being of the bitch that outsmarted her human that is supposed to be in charge and responsible for her well being.

There is no better response, thanks for this Judy, great post.
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Old 05-20-2014, 08:06 AM   #4
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You have made a lot of assumptions about me and I dislike your attitude. I do not intend to be a breeder. You have no idea how this dog came into my possession. As Buddhists we do not kill so stop imposing your values on me. By supplies I meant medical not cute accessories. I don't want to be part of this forum
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Old 05-20-2014, 08:19 AM   #5
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You have made a lot of assumptions about me and I dislike your attitude. I do not intend to be a breeder. You have no idea how this dog came into my possession. As Buddhists we do not kill so stop imposing your values on me. By supplies I meant medical not cute accessories. I don't want to be part of this forum

You were a negligent owner, now you are a breeder. You've been given good advice and I suspect you will need more before long. I'm not sure you want to give up just like that?
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Old 05-20-2014, 08:29 AM   #6
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I am glad member David did not come here looking for advice when he found out his new dog was pregnant.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...rkie-pups.html

for those not aware 4.6kg is close to 10.25 lbs.

While breeding is not for me or to be taken lightly, I also feel that unless the vet thinks the mom is too unhealthy to carry a litter than aborting several puppies because they have not bred to better the breed is cruel.
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Old 05-20-2014, 08:30 AM   #7
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You were a negligent owner, now you are a breeder. You've been given good advice and I suspect you will need more before long. I'm not sure you want to give up just like that?
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Old 05-20-2014, 08:33 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Clairewijay View Post
You have made a lot of assumptions about me and I dislike your attitude. I do not intend to be a breeder. You have no idea how this dog came into my possession. As Buddhists we do not kill so stop imposing your values on me. By supplies I meant medical not cute accessories. I don't want to be part of this forum
Yorkie Talk has a lot of great members and it does have a lot to offer, but at times it can be a cruel place, fortunately though it's not the only place where one can go to find good advice. I hope you stay because I would love to see how the puppies turn out, but if you don't I will understand why.
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Last edited by DBlain; 05-20-2014 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 05-20-2014, 09:04 AM   #9
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I am glad member David did not come here looking for advice when he found out his new dog was pregnant.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...rkie-pups.html

for those not aware 4.6kg is close to 10.25 lbs.

While breeding is not for me or to be taken lightly, I also feel that unless the vet thinks the mom is too unhealthy to carry a litter than aborting several puppies because they have not bred to better the breed is cruel.
That person adopted the dog pregnant. It did not get pregnant in there care.
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Old 05-20-2014, 09:07 AM   #10
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Yorkie Talk has a lot of great members and it does have a lot to offer, but at times it can be a cruel place, fortunately though it's not the only place where one can go to find good advice. I hope you stay because I would love to see how the puppies turn out, but if you don't I will understand why.
I'm an experieced breeder and I rely A LOT on veterinarians to get my girls safely through all kinds of whelping situations. Supplies are not a big deal--lots of clean towels and bedding, alcohol and iodine for disinfecting; supplies are cheap and easy. More important, especially for an inexperienced breeder, is to have a good veterinarian available.
In the OP's case, being inexperienced and with a rather unpredictable cross-breeding situation, I think planning in advance to have the pups born in a hospital with a veterinarian available to assist is particularly important.
The OP has my best wishes. Personally, I would have had the pregnancy aborted and my precious pet spayed, but let's do what we can to get everyone safely through the actual circumatances.
Best to all!
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Old 05-20-2014, 09:25 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Clairewijay View Post
You have made a lot of assumptions about me and I dislike your attitude. I do not intend to be a breeder. You have no idea how this dog came into my possession. As Buddhists we do not kill so stop imposing your values on me. By supplies I meant medical not cute accessories. I don't want to be part of this forum
I responded to your post....you had intended to terminate with an emergency spay....for whatever reason, you chose not to do that. You now have to take responsibility to educate yourself by whatever means available to you, to assure you can provide the medical care that may present themselves to you when this litter is whelped. Hopefully, you can avail yourself with a positive attitude, to any and all resources for providing you the information you need, even if you take offense to the way it is presented. You need facts and knowledge about Yorkies, breeding, whelping, raising orphaned puppies, etc. Your religious convictions unfortunately will not get you through a whelping at 2am Sunday morning with a bitch that is in a life and death struggle to have puppies that are too large to pass through her pelvic ring....or a hemorrhaging female from a ruptured uterus.....the circumstances by which you came to own that intact female has no bearing on what is happening to you now. You did not recognize she was in heat, and took her to an open park with other intact dogs......you have to know when your female is in heat so this is not repeated in 6 months! THAT is important information you need to build on! Your religious convictions or how you got the dog is not important in the situation you are currently in. Attend dog shows, find someone that you think you can deal with and learn from, and do what is necessary to get this lady delivered....(valuable, necessary information is not always delivered with hugs and kisses and pats on the head, especially if given from sources that KNOW what all is involved or how brutal and cruel breeding can be).....and the babies nurtured and given any help they may need after they are born. You have one thing that could be on your side....the size of the bitch, for those that are not familiar with metric conversions. However, the size of the male and what is behind him in his pedigree could throw a wrench in this "misalliance".....even what is behind the bitch in her pedigree is going to affect this litter. I am praying all works out for your Yorkie. I also pray you can learn to accept CONSTRUCTIVE critism, and learn from it.
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Old 05-20-2014, 09:34 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by magicgenie View Post
I'm an experieced breeder and I rely A LOT on veterinarians to get my girls safely through all kinds of whelping situations. Supplies are not a big deal--lots of clean towels and bedding, alcohol and iodine for disinfecting; supplies are cheap and easy. More important, especially for an inexperienced breeder, is to have a good veterinarian available.
In the OP's case, being inexperienced and with a rather unpredictable cross-breeding situation, I think planning in advance to have the pups born in a hospital with a veterinarian available to assist is particularly important. The OP has my best wishes. Personally, I would have had the pregnancy aborted and my precious pet spayed, but let's do what we can to get everyone safely through the actual circumatances.
Best to all!
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Old 05-20-2014, 10:32 AM   #13
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That person adopted the dog pregnant. It did not get pregnant in there care.

LOL what difference does that make how the dog got pregnant, the current situation is what we are addressing and the potential outcome which is an unplanned pregnancy with a dog of another breed. I know this is a yorkie site so it is understandable that most want to breed yorkies with only yorkies but at times when that does not happen it can wind up being an wonderful outcome. Pet owners often think with their heart like David did not like a pro breeder who would abort a mixed puppy even though they would make good pets. As long as the pregnant dog is large enough and healthy with the proper care and vet advice she should be able to deliver her puppies as well as any other pregnant female does.
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Last edited by DBlain; 05-20-2014 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:00 PM   #14
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You know Donna it is a crap shoot , breeding mismatched if you will, you have no blinking idea what is behind the two dogs involved. You for sure have not done the breed specific heatlh tests before breeding. So what are you actually bringing into this world, on the backs of future puppy owners, and mayhap the life of your bitch.

Are you or she going to be financially responsible for any future health genetic defects?
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:06 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Clairewijay View Post
You have made a lot of assumptions about me and I dislike your attitude. I do not intend to be a breeder. You have no idea how this dog came into my possession. As Buddhists we do not kill so stop imposing your values on me. By supplies I meant medical not cute accessories. I don't want to be part of this forum

As a Buddhist I understand that you adhere to the principal of do no Harm. Did you actually do NO Harm? Doing no Harm is not easy, but for certain it encompasses keeping safe an intact female dog.

Did you do that? Oh I suppose it is okay to risk and perhaps lose the life of your female, and any live puppies that just might be borne?

Does do no harm encompass passing onto future puppy owners debiliatiting genetic defects that could be present in this Mis-Match?

There is much to consider if indeed you are a Buddhist, including your total responsibility in this situation.
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