The Biewer Yorkshire

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

These are Mr Biewers dogs. AS you can see they look just like the parti's. His dogs were just as random. Some had alot of black and some didnt.

OK...thanks for that. They do look like 'some' partis but most Partis I've seen photos of have much more white and hasn't everyone involved with these dogs described the partis as random pattened and the Biewers as banded with specific color placement? The only fair comparison would be to see partis from some time ago, I would think.

Also, I may be wrong, but aren't you the one that spoke with Ms. Gordon? Did she ever say 'parti' or just 'tri'. The terms wouldn't necessarily be the same to all people. I once took a litter in to my vet for tail docking. They all had fairly large white blazes and white toes. He marked them in his records as 'tri colored'. Of course, these dogs were standard Yorkies and the white went away with time. Is it possible that Ms Gordon didn't want to see 'tris' even at an early age as she may have felt that too much white, even at an early age, would not produce the coloring she was looking for? Just asking for a little clarification on this...thanks.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

OK...thanks for that. They do look like 'some' partis but most Partis I've seen photos of have much more white and hasn't everyone involved with these dogs described the partis as random pattened and the Biewers as banded with specific color placement? The only fair comparison would be to see partis from some time ago, I would think.

Also, I may be wrong, but aren't you the one that spoke with Ms. Gordon? Did she ever say 'parti' or just 'tri'. The terms wouldn't necessarily be the same to all people. I once took a litter in to my vet for tail docking. They all had fairly large white blazes and white toes. He marked them in his records as 'tri colored'. Of course, these dogs were standard Yorkies and the white went away with time. Is it possible that Ms Gordon didn't want to see 'tris' even at an early age as she may have felt that too much white, even at an early age, would not produce the coloring she was looking for? Just asking for a little clarification on this...thanks.

Mrs Gordon believes in the Yorkie Standard, blue and tan and classifies any other colors as mismarked. No she did not breed dogs with white. If they had white she spayed or neutered them.
And if you had a litter of pups with large white blazes, wonder where that came from?

[Breezeaway]

Mr Biewers standard did not say they had to be belted, I think some of the biewer clubs incorporated that term.
His standard says: Body: Blue-interrupted white, total white, or completely blue with white neck ring. no gold in body hair. Legs, stomach and chest hair white.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

OK...thanks for that. They do look like 'some' partis but most Partis I've seen photos of have much more white and hasn't everyone involved with these dogs described the partis as random pattened and the Biewers as banded with specific color placement? The only fair comparison would be to see partis from some time ago, I would think.

Also, I may be wrong, but aren't you the one that spoke with Ms. Gordon? Did she ever say 'parti' or just 'tri'. The terms wouldn't necessarily be the same to all people. I once took a litter in to my vet for tail docking. They all had fairly large white blazes and white toes. He marked them in his records as 'tri colored'. Of course, these dogs were standard Yorkies and the white went away with time. Is it possible that Ms Gordon didn't want to see 'tris' even at an early age as she may have felt that too much white, even at an early age, would not produce the coloring she was looking for? Just asking for a little clarification on this...thanks.

The amount of "spotting" is the same.. Each pup has more than one spotting gene which creates the patterning .. Irish Spotting creates more of a belted banded pattern where the piebald is more random.. the Irish spotting is the dominate, then the piebald next in line, then the extreme piebald.

In each litter, you may have dogs with differnet patterns (spotting genes) Mr. Biewer (I believe) bred the ones with the Belted or banded pattern together to create the "type" of look he was looking for.. he spent years perfecting that look and it needs to be done by design.. If you breed any pattern to any pattern, you will not get that same consistancy.

This is the difference between the AKC Parti and the Parti colored Biewer.. the Biewer was purposly bred for many years for a specifi "look".. the Parti has not, until recently, had the dedicate breeders to "work" with their dogs in the way Mr. Biewer did.. he had a passion that gave the Biewer a special place in the hearts of the people who owned them.. that same passion is now being felt with the AKC Parti. We have dedicated breeders who want to develop this beautiful colored yorkie to be the best it can be, just like the Biewers were developed with the love and care by Mr. Biewer.

If you look at Biewer litters since their arrival to this country, you will already notice a remarkable change in their apperance.. we have worked very hard on health, ear placement, structure, size, coat texture.. many of us have not paid as much attention to the "patterning" piece as in the past ... so, you will see a variety of Biewer patterns now also.. many looking more and more like the "Parti" or Piebald pattern (spots) rather than the original belted, banded pattern that was eventually developed on the Biewers. One of the original Biewer clubs in this country had as it's main goal the perserving of this Belted, Banded coat above most everything else, but most do not share that drive right now as there have been other things to focus on.

The AKC parti could, if desired, get to that same belted, banded "look".. it would just take dedication in breeding for it. My AKC Parti Male has the Irish spotting pattern and looks every bit a Biewer.. I have Biewers that have more of a "spotting" or random pattern... I guess you breed for what is most important to you.. if it's a spotting pattern or whatever.. you can't do it all at once.

Diana

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Mrs Gordon believes in the Yorkie Standard, blue and tan and classifies any other colors as mismarked. No she did not breed dogs with white. If they had white she spayed or neutered them.
And if you had a litter of pups with large white blazes, wonder where that came from?

My pups had white blazes, maybe a bit larger than I'm used to seeing, but cetainly there was no piebald gene at work. I had them for between 4-5 months before placing them and they all developed normally, with standard coloring and breaking patterns. The white went away fairly quickly and turned to tan. The color breaking was normal. I only mentioned that as my vet saw them as tris when they were standard Yorkies.

I still don't see whether Ms Gordon used the term 'tri' or 'parti'. That would be a big distinction, especially in looking at young pups. There is no mistaking a parti pup, as we all know.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

My pups had white blazes, maybe a bit larger than I'm used to seeing, but cetainly there was no piebald gene at work. I had them for between 4-5 months before placing them and they all developed normally, with standard coloring and breaking patterns. The white went away fairly quickly and turned to tan. The color breaking was normal. I only mentioned that as my vet saw them as tris when they were standard Yorkies.

I still don't see whether Ms Gordon used the term 'tri' or 'parti'. That would be a big distinction, especially in looking at young pups. There is no mistaking a parti pup, as we all know.

She uses Tri color or mismarked. The term parti wasnt used back in the 70's

[Breezeaway]

Just so there is no mixup as to what she referenced as a tri, Trippy" He was born (as are most fox terriers)as a white dog with black spots and developed his tan as he grew up. His black spots turned to blue gray and his tan markings came over by the time he was around 6 months.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

She uses Tri color or mismarked. The term parti wasnt used back in the 70's

Yes, but you just talked to her....not back in the 70's. I'm sure she knows now what is meant by parti colored and wasn't that what you were asking about? Until this is clarified, I think it's unfair to post that Wildweir had parti dogs, which is the implication you are giving.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Yes, but you just talked to her....not back in the 70's. I'm sure she knows now what is meant by parti colored and wasn't that what you were asking about? Until this is clarified, I think it's unfair to post that Wildweir had parti dogs, which is the implication you are giving.

I said they had A tri(parti) dog.

[Breezeaway]

The word Parti became popular after AKC accepted them in 2000 and used that as color description on AKC papers. People started saying parti color instead of tri.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Yes the Nikkos line and the Biewer line do trace back to Streamglen, What about the tri color born in 1976 at Wildweir kennels. That was 8 years before Mr. Biewer had a tri and Wildweir does not trace back to Streamglen as far as I know.

Still waiting for a picture of that. How much white was really on this dog? And really, one mismarked puppy in HOW many litters in umpteen years? Sounds like Wildweir had a real problem with the tri color showing up.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Just so there is no mixup as to what she referenced as a tri, Trippy" He was born (as are most fox terriers)as a white dog with black spots and developed his tan as he grew up. His black spots turned to blue gray and his tan markings came over by the time he was around 6 months.

I'm a little confused by that description, but it doesn't sound like a 'parti' dog.

BTW, if you're interesred, the pups my vet referred to as 'tri colored' can be seen here. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yt-...1-weeks-3.html

I think Ms Gordon knew what she was looking for very early in a pup and might have called a standard Yorkie with some white 'mis-marked'. In any case, if she didn't say 'parti', I don't think we can assume 'parti' unless a picture of the dog is available.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I'm a little confused by that description, but it doesn't sound like a 'parti' dog.

BTW, if you're interesred, the pups my vet referred to as 'tri colored' can be seen here. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yt-...1-weeks-3.html

I think Ms Gordon knew what she was looking for very early in a pup and might have called a standard Yorkie with some white 'mis-marked'. In any case, if she didn't say 'parti', I don't think we can assume 'parti' unless a picture of the dog is available.

Why would you say that does not sound like a Parti?? That's exactly what Parti's look like when they are born. If that was the description Ms Gordon gave of her puppy.. there is no way that she, especially as a breeder of Yorkies, would concider that a standard colored yorkie with "some" white. She would not have refered to her Mismarked dog as a Parti as those words weren't used until much later to describe that type of coloring... I don't understand why your vet would ever have called your puppies tri colored unless he was unfamilar with the breed and how they develop. This is not the case with Ms Gordon.

It is very easy to see the difference between a standard colored yorkie with a bit more "white" say on it's chest and a parti puppy.. there is little confusion. Now Parti or Biewer carriers are different.. many times carriers are unable to be distinquished when they are born as they look just like the traditionally colored yorkie.. some don't even have white on their chest, but what Ms Gordon described is very clearly not a carrier but a tri colored (Parti colored) puppy.

Diana

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Just so there is no mixup as to what she referenced as a tri, Trippy" He was born (as are most fox terriers)as a white dog with black spots and developed his tan as he grew up. His black spots turned to blue gray and his tan markings came over by the time he was around 6 months.

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I'm a little confused by that description, but it doesn't sound like a 'parti' dog.

BTW, if you're interesred, the pups my vet referred to as 'tri colored' can be seen here. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yt-...1-weeks-3.html

I think Ms Gordon knew what she was looking for very early in a pup and might have called a standard Yorkie with some white 'mis-marked'. In any case, if she didn't say 'parti', I don't think we can assume 'parti' unless a picture of the dog is available.

Jim....perhaps this is what Ms Gordon was referring to. Pups, such as these, born black and white, you can see, not much tan. By the time they are six months the tan comes in ("or came over"). My Razz is one of these black and white puppies and I've posted a picture of him with his tan coming in nicely. I could understand why she wouldn't use the term parti, as it wasn't the term she was familiar with.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/att...rti-sweets.jpg

[Woogie Man]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but the description doesn't sound like a parti, nor does it sound like a standard Yorkie. And what's with the Fox Terrier reference? You have to admit that it's all second hand descriptions from someone that hasn't seen the dog. I won't assume that Ms. Gordon meant 'parti' unless she said 'parti'. Surely by 2010 she's aware of the term. I think the jury's still put on this one.

As for my vet, it doesn't mean a hill of beans to me that he referred to my pups as 'tri-colored', but that's what he called them and that's what's on the receipt. I just mentioned that to illustrate that the same term can mean different things to different folks and that's why I'd like more clarity as to what Ms.Gordon said.