The Biewer Yorkshire

[Breezeaway]

Questions need to be asked and answered by the Biewer Yorkshire a la pom pon clubs and the Biewer Terrier Club.
I welcome all comments.
Why were these tri puppies from standard colored yorkies registered as Yorkshire Terriers with KFT/ VDH
These dogs were registered in KFT/VDH
Schneeflöckchen von Friedheck, VDH/KFT 19362, geb. 20.01.1984
Diavoletto Bianco von Friedheck, VDH/KFT 20173
Grand Pom Pon von Friedheck, VDH/KFT 20366, geb. 27.08.1984
Schneeanemone von Friedheck, VDH/KFT 22039
Schneeprinz II von Friedheck, VDH/KFT 25/26928 geb. 27.08.1989
Schneezauber von Friedheck, geb. 10.02.1989 Ð
As you can see Schneezauber was born 10/02 1989 after the ACH was established yet he was registered KFT/VDH Yorkshire terrier.
Had the KFT thought these dogs were cross breds they NEVER would have registered them.
But yet these these puppies sired (and / or born of three-color Yorkshire Terriers have no registration from VDH / KFT) but you see the numbers, This is not ACH numbers because ACH uses as the first 2 digits the year they were born in the registration #
Schneerose von Friedheck, Friedheck-Nr.: 001
Schneewirbel von Friedheck, Friedheck-Nr.: 018
Schneeblume von Friedheck, Friedheck-Nr.: 031
Then you have these dogs registered in ACH
Schneewieselchen von Friedheck, ACH 871094, geb. 29.09.1986
Schneediavolo von Friedheck, ACH 881543, geb. 19.09.1987
Schneeball von Friedheck, ACH 882338
Schneeflocke von Friedheck, ACH 882423
Werner Biewer in the years 1984-1989, used all three options for registration of his three-colored Yorkshire terriers . Some litters he still has VDH / KFT registered, others the pedigree itself is written for and still others at ACH Association) registered.
There are a total of 52 dogs names in the pedigree database but few can be actually traced back to their ancestors. Why are these dogs unknown? It was the 80's and there is no reason to have blank pedigrees in the 80's.
What I want to know is have the Biewer Clubs researched this and what exactly are their findings?

[Breezeaway]

Also i have to add
How did Mr .Biewer come up with so many tri's out of standard colored yorkies?
Darling was bred to these dogs and produced tri"s?
Dinie Von Friedheck Blue and tan.......Produced a TRi Male Diavoletta Bianco
Fru FRu Blue and tan..produced Tri F ..Schneeflochen VH
FRuFRu Blue and tan..Schneeflocke Tri F
Fru Fru ...Gran Pom Pon Tri F
Nanuck Von Friedheck.. blue and tan..... tri F Schneeanemone Von Friedheck
Simone Von Fried heck....Blue and tan... Schneeflower VF TRi Female 1990
Simone Von FriedHeck.... Schneewolke ... Tri F
Olivia II blue and gold....Schneeprinz Tri Male born 1989
Iwy Von Friedheck Blue an gold ...Schneewolf VF Male Tri
Daisey Von Friedheck ..blue and gold ..Schneexenia VF TRi Female
Daisey Von Friedheck ..blue and gold ..Schneezauber VF TRi Male born 2/10/1989
Were all these females carriers of the tri color gene???
These are questions that need to be answered before you can even establish this as a breed of its own.
How much research have the Biewer Clubs actually done??

[scrapindee]

These are very good questions and I do not have the answers for you. But you have given me some motivation to do some additional research.

I don't think too many members of the Biewer Terrier Club come on this forum anymore --you might want to go their site for answers. The other clubs' members will probbly post soon and hopefully they know more than I do about some of these ancestors.

[Breezeaway]

Thanks Dee,
Another question I had was why do the clubs post on their websites that Mr. Biewer never bred anything but Biewer to Biewer when in fact he did breed his yorkies back to his tri colors, Isnt that posting false information?

[evab]

I think people will find a letter from M. Ostern, on numerous internet Biewer sites, which states quite clearly what Frau Biewers' thoughts were about breeding Biewer to Yorkie. I believe she says it is a Fraud. She is alive today, perhaps people could contact her and ask her to answer all their many many questions. The KFT refused to continue to register Herr Biewers' dogs as a true breed conformation, was it just the colour or indeed the whole dog? Perhaps someone should ask the KFT why? When dogs are registered in many, many different registries ACH, ACH-L, IBC,DHZ,WRZ etc etc, their true ancestry cannot be accurately traced, a pedigree is only as honest as it's breeder.

[Breezeaway]

How did this dog suddenly become a cousin to the Yorkshire Terrier when they came from Yorkshire Terriers and I leave out the 2 because he bred other females to Darling to get the tri's, not all are from the mating of Darling and Fru Fru.
All these tri's were bred back to each other or bred back to Darling. Still being bred as Yorkshire terrier to yorkshire terrier just tri colored. How did they suddenly morph into another breed???? When did they become something other than the Yorkshire Terrier.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

How did they suddenly morph into another breed???? When did they become something other than the Yorkshire Terrier.

I think that can be (partially) attributed to some being blinded by their desires to see the dogs recognized as their own breed and allowed to be shown in conformation events. Most everyone seemed to stand behind the history of the dogs in that they came from standard Yorkies until they met opposition in getting them recognized and show eligible here in the US. Then things get fuzzy.

[evab]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

How did this dog suddenly become a cousin to the Yorkshire Terrier when they came from Yorkshire Terriers and I leave out the 2 because he bred other females to Darling to get the tri's, not all are from the mating of Darling and Fru Fru.
All these tri's were bred back to each other or bred back to Darling. Still being bred as Yorkshire terrier to yorkshire terrier just tri colored. How did they suddenly morph into another breed???? When did they become something other than the Yorkshire Terrier.

This is a very relevant question, but to assume they suddenly, became a cousin of the Yorkshire terrier and to assume they only came out of two may be a little nieve. There is nothing written about Herr Biewer's creations to explicitly confirm or deny how he got the colours of his little dogs. A pedigree is only as good as it's breeder. There is alot of missing info on these pedigrees, where did Daisy Von Friedheck come from (dam to Schneexenia & Schneezauber? who was Lolita von Friedheck (Dam to Renee) ? Who was Princess-Koala von Friedheck (Dam to Janny, dam to Schnee-Monsieur, )? Simone von Friedheck (Dam to Schneewolke)?

We can talk about Nanuck, Olivia,Graziella, EEV, Anja till we are blue in the face, it will not change the fact that the KFT stopped registering his little dogs, as not being true to type and standard for the pure bred Yorkie. They became something other then a pure bred Yorkshire Terrier, when they became a White dog with a Black Saddle on its back. That's why there are breed standards, the YTC UK has looked over and cared for these exquiste little dogs for the last 140 years, protected their ancestry, protected their rights as a pure bred dog. A registry is just that and open to diceipt by anyone wishing to place a dog of either another colour or indeed mixed breed onto the registry for that specific dog. What is the point of a breed standard, what is the point of breeding true? Why do we not have little white dogs on the UK registry, and please no more culling remarks, we love and cherrish our dogs, protect them, same as anyone does. How can these Biewer be protected, it is quite obvious they have been exploited for years, breeding lines contaminated as with the Yorkie, are we to have within the next 200 years only white Yorkie with Black saddles on their backs. Never in the history of the breed has this been written. Why do we not have these little dogs walking the streets of England? Enough said You must seek the answers to your questions with Frau Biewer. A pedigree is only as good as the breeder!

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by evab

This is a very relevant question, but to assume they suddenly, became a cousin of the Yorkshire terrier and to assume they only came out of two may be a little nieve. There is nothing written about Herr Biewer's creations to explicitly confirm or deny how he got the colours of his little dogs. A pedigree is only as good as it's breeder. There is alot of missing info on these pedigrees, where did Daisy Von Friedheck come from (dam to Schneexenia & Schneezauber? who was Lolita von Friedheck (Dam to Renee) ? Who was Princess-Koala von Friedheck (Dam to Janny, dam to Schnee-Monsieur, )? Simone von Friedheck (Dam to Schneewolke)?

We can talk about Nanuck, Olivia,Graziella, EEV, Anja till we are blue in the face, it will not change the fact that the KFT stopped registering his little dogs, as not being true to type and standard for the pure bred Yorkie. They became something other then a pure bred Yorkshire Terrier, when they became a White dog with a Black Saddle on its back. That's why there are breed standards, the YTC UK has looked over and cared for these exquiste little dogs for the last 140 years, protected their ancestry, protected their rights as a pure bred dog. A registry is just that and open to diceipt by anyone wishing to place a dog of either another colour or indeed mixed breed onto the registry for that specific dog. What is the point of a breed standard, what is the point of breeding true? Why do we not have little white dogs on the UK registry, and please no more culling remarks, we love and cherrish our dogs, protect them, same as anyone does. How can these Biewer be protected, it is quite obvious they have been exploited for years, breeding lines contaminated as with the Yorkie, are we to have within the next 200 years only white Yorkie with Black saddles on their backs. Never in the history of the breed has this been written. Why do we not have these little dogs walking the streets of England? Enough said You must seek the answers to your questions with Frau Biewer. A pedigree is only as good as the breeder!

I never said 2, I said there were more than 2,
Just because they were a different color it does not make them any less of a yorkshire terrier when they were born from 2 yorkshire terriers. Registered or not.
Again Mr Biewer was not the first person to ever get a tri color from 2 standard colored yorkies.
As to why they are not registered there in the UK is because you DON"T have them in the Uk, AS per your statements yet isnt it odd you have a Biewer Terrier club and also are sporting a parti yorkie website.
We live in the USA and they are here and that is what I care about not what happens in the UK.
as for the tri's not being registered in KFT , this is not true, some were registered as shown here in Schneezaubers papers. AS you can see it has Daisys parents. He was registered with KFT/VDH in 1989 after the ACH was established.

[evab]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I never said 2, I said there were more than 2,
Just because they were a different color it does not make them any less of a yorkshire terrier when they were born from 2 yorkshire terriers. Registered or not.
Again Mr Biewer was not the first person to ever get a tri color from 2 standard colored yorkies.
As to why they are not registered there in the UK is because you DON"T have them in the Uk, AS per your statements yet isnt it odd you have a Biewer Terrier club and also are sporting a parti yorkie website.
We live in the USA and they are here and that is what I care about not what happens in the UK.
as for the tri's not being registered in KFT , this is not true, some were registered as shown here in Schneezaubers papers. AS you can see it has Daisys parents. He was registered with KFT/VDH in 1989 after the ACH was established.

A bit confused here, are you talking on behalf of Herr Biewer, there are missing pedigrees, missing info only he or Frau Biewer are able to answer,yet you seem to fill them in on his behalf "A pedigree is only as good as it's breeder". You seem to be confused as to what are the correct conformation colours of a pure bred Yorkshire Terrier. I prefer not to be mis-quoted, registries do register Tri's? Blue, Steel Grey,Tan is a Tri colour is it not. Are we now altering history and telling the breed clubs what is an accpeted colour for their dogs? I believe the AKC have already made that boo boo with the parti. In 140 years of being the originating country for the pure bred Yorkshire Terrier we have NO White Dogs with Black Saddles on their backs, neither I believe does Australia, home of the Silky Terrier, cousin to the Yorkie. I join as many clubs as I like, make as many web sites as I like, support people in a way I like, why do you continue with this jibe. I have a few more sites too as you are so interested, a Yorkitalk Magazine but one more, I like to spread the word, much like yourself. As I too have traced the ancestry of my dogs, I too have spoken to people who have infinately more knowledge then you or I and I believe the Yorkie to be a Tan dog with a Blue Saddle. A person cannot simply follow the history of a breed on a database complied by any Tom, Dick or Harry who chooses to put a pedigree on it, you cannot follow it on an assumed Pedigree Certificate. History is written by the breeders of these dogs, originator's of their kind. You seem to push only your parti's as some kind of quest to save them from extinction, truth is they are not breed true standard, we do not know of their true origin, they should not be sold as "Rare" for big dollars and neither should a Biewer. I live in the UK and see the Yorkie being exploited by American breeders, history being re-written by people with little or no knowledge of the breed, that is what I care about.
Have you any replies yet to your questions on the Biewer, perhaps they should be put to Frau Biewer as I have already stated and not on a Yorkshire Terrier Forum.

[Breezeaway]

[Beamers Mom]

I think this thread in General Discussion should have been posted here??

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...ml#post3264792

or in Showing???

[Micah my love]

Originally Posted by evab

I think people will find a letter from M. Ostern, on numerous internet Biewer sites, which states quite clearly what Frau Biewers' thoughts were about breeding Biewer to Yorkie. I believe she says it is a Fraud. She is alive today, perhaps people could contact her and ask her to answer all their many many questions. The KFT refused to continue to register Herr Biewers' dogs as a true breed conformation, was it just the colour or indeed the whole dog? Perhaps someone should ask the KFT why? When dogs are registered in many, many different registries ACH, ACH-L, IBC,DHZ,WRZ etc etc, their true ancestry cannot be accurately traced, a pedigree is only as honest as it's breeder.

I would not believe anything that M. Ostern wrote anyplace or anywhere
not even a letter to santa clause

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Beamers Mom

I think this thread in General Discussion should have been posted here??

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...ml#post3264792

or in Showing???

Nope has nothing to do with this thread..........

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Micah my love

I would not believe anything that M. Ostern wrote anyplace or anywhere
not even a letter to santa clause