The Biewer Yorkshire

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Evab what makes you an expert on the Biewer. Most everything you say is either false info or does not make any sense.
1. You do not own a Biewer
2. There are no Biewers in the UK
3. There are no Parti's in the UK
4. You live in the Uk
5. You have never even seen a parti or a biewer.

I refuse to argue back and forth with you about this. You have no information to offer me that you haven t already posted 50 times over. You cannot back up one thing you say.
I have talked with people in Germany, One very important one as a matter of fact.
I have done months of research on the Biewer Yorkshire and I feel I am more than qualified to state the facts that I know and anyone can go to my website to read it and see the photos and pedigrees. I might add that some of those photos are ones you stole from my site and from me on the pedigree database.
Also the books you post on you site, you obtained the sites from the PYTC website.
I do know who is behind you on all your little displays, You guys will do any to try to discredit me anyway you can, even if it is lies. You are mad because I proved that the biewer is nothing more than a Yorkie and because of that they will never get into AKC as a separate breed. That is the fact of all your postings. Your postings are nothing more than GP trying to do anything she can to say that they are 3 breeds which just isn't so if they are a true Biewer Yorkshire A la Pom pon.

And THAT my "DEAR" deserves an AMEN!

-Diana

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I know this is a dumb question but: Does anyone REALLY know what Mr Biewer actually was breeding for 10+ years behind closed doors? Its sounds like Mrs Biewer was either left in the dark about his breeding program and in other instances seems as sharp as a tack.
I just wonder if he had an agenda: to produce a parti colored "Yorkie" just as a "breeder" in the U.S. had an agenda to produce a long haired Whippet and the other "breeder" whoes agenda was to produce a toy Afghan. As it turned out, I believe tht AkC actually registered the long haired Whippet but withdrew them after it was found out he was mixing breeds. I dont think the toy Afghan ever got off the ground.
Some of Mr Biewers' breeding records were missing after his death. Why? Also, breeding records are easy to falsify. Any iron clad proof of his breeding adventures over the years before the "spontaneous" arrival of the parti dogs?

I havent found anything on this.

Just wondering

I cant believe with all the knowledgable Biewer people on here that no one answered this simple question.

Anyone????

[evab]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Evab what makes you an expert on the Biewer. Most everything you say is either false info or does not make any sense.
1. You do not own a Biewer
2. There are no Biewers in the UK
3. There are no Parti's in the UK
4. You live in the Uk
5. You have never even seen a parti or a biewer.

I refuse to argue back and forth with you about this. You have no information to offer me that you haven t already posted 50 times over. You cannot back up one thing you say.
I have talked with people in Germany, One very important one as a matter of fact.
I have done months of research on the Biewer Yorkshire and I feel I am more than qualified to state the facts that I know and anyone can go to my website to read it and see the photos and pedigrees. I might add that some of those photos are ones you stole from my site and from me on the pedigree database.
Also the books you post on you site, you obtained the sites from the PYTC website.
I do know who is behind you on all your little displays, You guys will do any to try to discredit me anyway you can, even if it is lies. You are mad because I proved that the biewer is nothing more than a Yorkie and because of that they will never get into AKC as a separate breed. That is the fact of all your postings. Your postings are nothing more than GP trying to do anything she can to say that they are 3 breeds which just isn't so if they are a true Biewer Yorkshire A la Pom pon.

I see you are making false accusations again against me. I was not going to post on this thread again,You cannot back up one thing you say., but I am sorry I will not be accused of stealing anyones material. The links to the archive's were in my personal reading armoury and site before they were on your site. I have original copies of most of that reading material and lots of photo's, plates from those books and our Dogs magazines. My website is not and has never been intended to offer you any information. I have already picked you up on information you posted incorrectly in as much as Nikko's Rolls Royse Ashley ever having won Crufts in 1984, which you very hastily removed from your site, after also putting my name on it, do you remember, or conveniently forget. Also websites who claim they read about the history of a dog in the (Shop-Keeper) when in FACT it is the Stock-Keeper 1886, show their ignorance of the books they do not read. Do not presume to tell me who I have and have not spoken to, my German is very good, as I am 1/2 German thank you, and my family live happily in the originating country for the Biewer. I own a Yorkshire Terrier a true British Dog, I know the history of that dog and her ancestor's. I research the history of all my dogs and shall support any organisation I see fit.
Do you really think anyone would send you any info on these dogs? LOL
You discredit yourself with rolling little icons, and the remark you made above, you had your own agenda in posting this thread, you did not want answers to your question, as I have already stated, you play games to discredit decent honest people, just because they have a mind of their own and will not listen to your dogmatic claims. I only ask people to do their own research into the history of the Pure bred Yorkie, I do not shove it down their throats, making myself an expert. And your claims of sending sperm to the UK, proves your personal quest to turn, good british stock into little TRI coloured "Parti" dogs. We have enough of those already, we have enough poor little dogs sitting in rescue centres, waiting to be loved and we have enough waiting on death row, because nobody wants them.
(And I prefer not to be picked off by members, just because I use the term "dear" in my posts, I use this term all the time, it is a normal word to use in the UK, if this is some sort of game to have me removed from this forum as a member, I cannot see how I have made any posts so intimidating to them as other members have made against my person on this thread and other threads)

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by evab

I see you are making false accusations again against me. I was not going to post on this thread again,You cannot back up one thing you say., but I am sorry I will not be accused of stealing anyones material. The links to the archive's were in my personal reading armoury and site before they were on your site. I have original copies of most of that reading material and lots of photo's, plates from those books and our Dogs magazines. My website is not and has never been intended to offer you any information. I have already picked you up on information you posted incorrectly in as much as Nikko's Rolls Royse Ashley ever having won Crufts in 1984, which you very hastily removed from your site, after also putting my name on it, do you remember, or conveniently forget. Also websites who claim they read about the history of a dog in the (Shop-Keeper) when in FACT it is the Stock-Keeper 1886, show their ignorance of the books they do not read. Do not presume to tell me who I have and have not spoken to, my German is very good, as I am 1/2 German thank you, and my family live happily in the originating country for the Biewer. I own a Yorkshire Terrier a true British Dog, I know the history of that dog and her ancestor's. I research the history of all my dogs and shall support any organisation I see fit.
Do you really think anyone would send you any info on these dogs? LOL
You discredit yourself with rolling little icons, and the remark you made above, you had your own agenda in posting this thread, you did not want answers to your question, as I have already stated, you play games to discredit decent honest people, just because they have a mind of their own and will not listen to your dogmatic claims. I only ask people to do their own research into the history of the Pure bred Yorkie, I do not shove it down their throats, making myself an expert. And your claims of sending sperm to the UK, proves your personal quest to turn, good british stock into little TRI coloured "Parti" dogs. We have enough of those already, we have enough poor little dogs sitting in rescue centres, waiting to be loved and we have enough waiting on death row, because nobody wants them.
(And I prefer not to be picked off by members, just because I use the term "dear" in my posts, I use this term all the time, it is a normal word to use in the UK, if this is some sort of game to have me removed from this forum as a member, I cannot see how I have made any posts so intimidating to them as other members have made against my person on this thread and other threads)

I whole heartedly agree with Deb that you have shown us little to back up your claims, what I see is your opinion but not actual facts. You avoid answering questions by getting defensive and becoming condescending (and for future reference: in america using the term "dear" when speaking to someone you don't know well, would be considered patronizing by most).

Also, the Stockeeper article you refer to, was from 1887, not 1886 just for clarification. For some reason, spell check just doesn't like the word Stockeeper?

You say that your TRADITIONAL YORKSHIRE TERRIER website is not anti parti yorkie, but really a site to tell the truth about the blue and tan Yorkie ... if that is so, why didn't you just call the site "Yorkshire terrier" instead of Parti yorkshire terrier?

Also, earlier in the year, you denied that this site was yours, and now you are claiming it is yours? Why lie about it?

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3019440-post157.html

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by evab

I see you are making false accusations again against me. I was not going to post on this thread again,You cannot back up one thing you say., but I am sorry I will not be accused of stealing anyones material. The links to the archive's were in my personal reading armoury and site before they were on your site. I have original copies of most of that reading material and lots of photo's, plates from those books and our Dogs magazines. My website is not and has never been intended to offer you any information. I have already picked you up on information you posted incorrectly in as much as Nikko's Rolls Royse Ashley ever having won Crufts in 1984, which you very hastily removed from your site, after also putting my name on it, do you remember, or conveniently forget. Also websites who claim they read about the history of a dog in the (Shop-Keeper) when in FACT it is the Stock-Keeper 1886, show their ignorance of the books they do not read. Do not presume to tell me who I have and have not spoken to, my German is very good, as I am 1/2 German thank you, and my family live happily in the originating country for the Biewer. I own a Yorkshire Terrier a true British Dog, I know the history of that dog and her ancestor's. I research the history of all my dogs and shall support any organisation I see fit.
Do you really think anyone would send you any info on these dogs? LOL
You discredit yourself with rolling little icons, and the remark you made above, you had your own agenda in posting this thread, you did not want answers to your question, as I have already stated, you play games to discredit decent honest people, just because they have a mind of their own and will not listen to your dogmatic claims. I only ask people to do their own research into the history of the Pure bred Yorkie, I do not shove it down their throats, making myself an expert. And your claims of sending sperm to the UK, proves your personal quest to turn, good british stock into little TRI coloured "Parti" dogs. We have enough of those already, we have enough poor little dogs sitting in rescue centres, waiting to be loved and we have enough waiting on death row, because nobody wants them.
(And I prefer not to be picked off by members, just because I use the term "dear" in my posts, I use this term all the time, it is a normal word to use in the UK, if this is some sort of game to have me removed from this forum as a member, I cannot see how I have made any posts so intimidating to them as other members have made against my person on this thread and other threads)

You say you don't shove it down peoples throats??? LOL then why do you have 3 websites doing just that, putting down the Biewer and the Parti?
Continuously going to parti or Biewer threads and posting the same ol stuff over and over.

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I cant believe with all the knowledgable Biewer people on here that no one answered this simple question.

Anyone????

You can find evidence of his yorkie breedings on line. He was a yorkie show exhibitor. Given that I find it difficult to believe he would suddenly decide to mix his championed dogs with another breed. Fru Fru and Darling were both championed yorkies

My personal opinion remains IF there was any other breed added...it happened at Streamglen. This is the single kennel that can be traced back in the pedigrees of both biewers and the parti yorkie. That is the common denominator. The paths Mr. Biewer took with his program and the parti breeders was different.

He breed selectively for 5 years before entering his dogs in the show ring. At this point there wouldn't have been a "need" to add another breed...his already carried the piebald gene.

The man passed away in 1997. His wife dispersed the dogs and I'm not surprised that records may have been given away or destroyed.

[Breezeaway]

Yes the Nikkos line and the Biewer line do trace back to Streamglen, What about the tri color born in 1976 at Wildweir kennels. That was 8 years before Mr. Biewer had a tri and Wildweir does not trace back to Streamglen as far as I know.

[evab]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

I whole heartedly agree with Deb that you have shown us little to back up your claims, what I see is your opinion but not actual facts.(That is your opinion, not mine) You avoid answering questions by getting defensive and becoming condescending (I believe i do not avoid answering questions, I ask readers to find their own truths. I am not becomming condescending or defensive, as you continually remark, unlike the rude replies I have recieved on this thread) (and for future reference: in america using the term "dear" when speaking to someone you don't know well, would be considered patronizing by most). (For future reference I shall continue to use an English word as I feel fitting in the context of my writings, if it offends that is not how it was ment to be)
Also, the Stockeeper article you refer to, was from 1887, not 1886 just for clarification. For some reason, spell check just doesn't like the word Stockeeper? (Do you not think you are nitpicking again at a typo error, much like the spell check not knowing the difference between a Shop keeper and Stock keeper.)
There are many articles I ask readers to refer to from many books here is another good read:
JESSE, WALSH AND SHAW
THE first of these is the monumental compilation of George R. Jesse,* Researches into the History of the British Dog (1866). This is the
first work of its kind, and although as in most pioneer works it contains pitfalls for the unwary, it is an extremely useful book, which deals with every facet of the British dog, especially from the historical and
literary viewpoints. The year 1867 saw the publication of the first edition
of The Dogs of the British Islands, an important work on all the better-known breeds, and embodying the views of numerous British breeders. This book, which enjoyed considerable success through several
editions, was edited by " Stonehenge " (J. H. Walsh, then editor of The Field) mainly from articles and letters previously published in his journal. The first edition (1867) contains twenty-nine woodcut engravings of selected dogs of exhibition breeding, and these were increased until the fifth and last edition. I might also add John Henry Walsh was editor for The Field Magazine in 1857, and wrote many articles on British dogs from that time.

You say that your TRADITIONAL YORKSHIRE TERRIER website is not anti parti yorkie, but really a site to tell the truth about the blue and tan Yorkie ... if that is so, why didn't you just call the site "Yorkshire terrier" instead of Parti yorkshire terrier? (That site was originally set up for use by a client, but I decided I myself would add info their, I design and run sites for people, explanation enough)
Also, earlier in the year, you denied that this site was yours, and now you are claiming it is yours? Why lie about it?
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3019440-post157.html

Replies as above in original quote(That site I believe now holds much better information, and recieves many views, I also prefer not to be called a liar or have my words taken out of context)

[evab]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

You say you don't shove it down peoples throats??? LOL then why do you have 3 websites doing just that, putting down the Biewer and the Parti?
Continuously going to parti or Biewer threads and posting the same ol stuff over and over.

That is again your opinion, I believe I have explained enough as to what I do for a living, with Pinehaven above. What I am unable to understand is your unhealthy interest in my personal life.
I post on many threads on this forum, and other forums and not just the above as you state. This thread originally asked BT people to answer your missing pedigree info, as a member of the BTCA and having researched that breed, I merely posted a reply for you to ask them directly, but as you clearly pointed out you do not wish anyone's input on this thread least of all mine should it not hold any agreeance to your views, why do you continually post to reference myself. I do not wish an answer to that question as I already know.

[beau diddy]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Yes the Nikkos line and the Biewer line do trace back to Streamglen, What about the tri color born in 1976 at Wildweir kennels. That was 8 years before Mr. Biewer had a tri and Wildweir does not trace back to Streamglen as far as I know.

Is there any documented proof to back this statement up please.
I have owned yorkies for many year's and never in england has a breeder from any kennel to my knowledge bred a traditional yorkshire terrier of tri coloring, Word has spread across the water about these little dog's with these marking's.

The uk breeder's are aware that there are so called breeder's breeding dog's here with this color from using a traditional yorkie with other breed's to create a dog of tri color and are indeed trying to pass it off as a yorkie, But there are no kc registration paper's to sugest this is a pure breed.
I think when so called breeder's here in the uk start to state that they have indeed come from an accredited breeder's kennel then breeder's will most certainly make there feeling's known and full documented proof will be asked for along with dna.
Accredited breeder's here in the uk have worked very hard to maintain there breeding line's and never has it come about that a yorkshire terrier of tri color has been bred here, I have never in 40 year's of owning yorkshire terrier's and know many accredited breeder's have ever seen a tri color yorkshire terrier.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Yes the Nikkos line and the Biewer line do trace back to Streamglen, What about the tri color born in 1976 at Wildweir kennels. That was 8 years before Mr. Biewer had a tri and Wildweir does not trace back to Streamglen as far as I know.

Interesting Question Deb.. I'm sure if there is a connection to Streamglen, you'll find it.. my guess is that there were other lines experiencing the same results but not going to be easy tracking it down. Interesting also to note that the Streamglen kennel was in ENGLAND.. where we've "heard by experts" there are no tri colored yorkies or never have been... maybe they just start there and and don't produce '"spots" until they leave the country??


Diana

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

Interesting Question Deb.. I'm sure if there is a connection to Streamglen, you'll find it.. my guess is that there were other lines experiencing the same results but not going to be easy tracking it down. Interesting also to note that the Streamglen kennel was in ENGLAND.. where we've "heard by experts" there are no tri colored yorkies or never have been... maybe they just start there and and don't produce '"spots" until they leave the country??


Diana

Yes, there were other lines, Kokopelli for one. Mrs Gordon would not comment on others that she knew about, She said"I don't have a problem writing about our Trippy, but since the others who bred mismarked dogs that I know about are deceased, I don't believe that I can comment on them after. I can only hope like you they seek the truth and not just rumors"

[shodanusmc]

The lines can also be traced back to the Breechblock family, and Robert Deflection Quadrant.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

You can find evidence of his yorkie breedings on line. He was a yorkie show exhibitor. Given that I find it difficult to believe he would suddenly decide to mix his championed dogs with another breed. Fru Fru and Darling were both championed yorkies

My personal opinion remains IF there was any other breed added...it happened at Streamglen. This is the single kennel that can be traced back in the pedigrees of both biewers and the parti yorkie. That is the common denominator. The paths Mr. Biewer took with his program and the parti breeders was different.

He breed selectively for 5 years before entering his dogs in the show ring. At this point there wouldn't have been a "need" to add another breed...his already carried the piebald gene.

The man passed away in 1997. His wife dispersed the dogs and I'm not surprised that records may have been given away or destroyed.

I'm sorry if this sounds sarcastic, but I just don't know any other way to ask it so here goes.

As to the Streamglen connection:
It seems so very odd that one kennel could get dogs from Streamglen and wind up with partis (random patterned) and another could get dogs from Streamglen and get belted patterned partis (Biewer). What are the odds of that, especially with the Biewer? On its face, it stretches the bounds of credibility. Something was obviously 'up' somewhere, which brings the dogs' heritage into question.

As to the Biewer records, I would be very surprised that the records from someone that developed a new breed would be given away or destroyed. If they were given away, they should have surfaced by now, given the recent popularity of the dogs. Frau Biewer should certainly know where they are, as she would have been the one to give them away and she hasn't stated that they were destroyed. It seems a little too convenient. As an outsider looking in, the Biewer story reads like an urban myth.

[Breezeaway]

These are Mr Biewers dogs. AS you can see they look just like the parti's. His dogs were just as random. Some had alot of black and some didnt.