The Biewer Yorkshire

[evab]

It is such a shame that people come on this site to post little rolling smilies when they are unable to get answers to their threads. I hope they have picked themselves up off the floor today. It is also very sad that people are unable to have a discussion about their dogs without the need for exacerbating a post. I simply suggested you find the answers you seek to your questions with the originator of this new breed and as unfortunately Herr Biewer is not longer here to answer your questions, it would leave Frau Biewer a member of the BTCA to answer your questions, if she wished. To make childish jibes at other breeders web sites and accuse them of posting untruths, is a little like:

" Pot calling the kettle black "

Idiom Meaning - Accusing a person of a misdemeanour whilst the accuser is guilty of the same thing

Having looked on the PYTC site their members, own, breed Biewer & Parti Yorkie, very convenient. But hey it's a free country, so long as they don't try to pass em off as a pure bred Yorkie with a piebald gene & register them with the AKC, now that's a thought.

I would post a rolling laughing icon, but really prefer my little doggie

[Breezeaway]

Yes some members own both Parti and Biewers, after all they both are Yorkies.
As to them breeding them, How do you know this? Did you speak with them?
As far as talking with Mrs Biewer, she really does know very little about the dogs Mr Biewer raised. as it has been posted that she said Mr Biewer didnt breed his standard yorkies to the tri's and we know that is not true because the pedigrees show he did.
After he died she got rid of every dog he owned, if she had cared about the dogs wouldn't she have kept a few?
I'm sure anybody that is interested in the Biewer Yorkie has been told by somebody that if the Yorkshire Terrier is used to cross with the Biewer then it is no longer a Biewer Yorkie.

* Ask them how that can be if the FOUNDATION DAM AND SIRE ARE 100% YORKSHIRE TERRIERS?
* Ask them how that can be if YORKSHIRE TERRIERS are well entangled in the PEDIGREES of the GERMAN BIEWER?
* Ask them why the REGISTRIES in GERMANY still allow the cross?

A BIEWER is simply a YORKSHIRE TERRIER in a Belted pattern. The origin is of little consequence as they can be found from Germany to the United States to Hungary and around the world.

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by evab

It is such a shame that people come on this site to post little rolling smilies when they are unable to get answers to their threads. I hope they have picked themselves up off the floor today. It is also very sad that people are unable to have a discussion about their dogs without the need for exacerbating a post. I simply suggested you find the answers you seek to your questions with the originator of this new breed and as unfortunately Herr Biewer is not longer here to answer your questions, it would leave Frau Biewer a member of the BTCA to answer your questions, if she wished. To make childish jibes at other breeders web sites and accuse them of posting untruths, is a little like:

" Pot calling the kettle black "

Idiom Meaning - Accusing a person of a misdemeanour whilst the accuser is guilty of the same thing

Having looked on the PYTC site their members, own, breed Biewer & Parti Yorkie, very convenient. But hey it's a free country, so long as they don't try to pass em off as a pure bred Yorkie with a piebald gene & register them with the AKC, now that's a thought.

I would post a rolling laughing icon, but really prefer my little doggie

As AKC does consider the parti to be a "pure-bred" Yorkshire Terrier, I was quite proud to register my Razz as a parti-color yorkie!

LOLOL....I believe most members here well understand the meaning of the phrase... " Pot calling the kettle black "....your definition wasn't really necessary.

[Woogie Man]

It's odd that there is any mystery about a dog that had it's origin only 25 years ago. You would think there would be complete documentation of every step of its development, including photographic evidence. Any gaps in documenting or questions left unanswered brings the entire enterprise into question. At first glance, the story of the Biewer is quite remarkable, with the odds of what is said to have happened being much less than winning the lottery 2 weeks in a row. What kind of canine alchemy was going on there?

I found this info on the web. Not sure how credible it is, but it does offer some pedigree info. Here's the link. WHAT MAKES IT A BIEWER YORKIE

Here's a bit from the link that I have a question about.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The ORIGINAL Biewer Club is the "ACH" - Allgemeiner Club der Hundefreunde Deutschland - ACH-L e. V. If GERMAN registration is a BIG DEAL to you then this is the registry that you should be registering with. If you register with any other German Registry then you are NOT registering with the ORIGINAL OFFICIAL German Registration Club and therefore should not be squawking about any United States Registry."

...and this

" History: The Breed of Biewer Yorkshire Terrier A la Pom Pon was officially recognized in 1986 by the "ACH" - Allgemeiner Club der Hundefreunde Deutschland - ACH-L e. V. The Biewer Family is given the recognition of producing the first Biewer Yorkshire Terrier A la Pom Pon born on January 20, 1984 by the name of Schnnefloecken von Friedheck or better known as "Snowflake". The Biewer's lived in Hunsruck, Germany."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, I may be reading this wrong, but it seems like the Biewer was first recognized by its own breed club and registered with it. What's that all about? Did Herr Biewer not only breed the Biewer, but started his own breed club and registry? If this is the case, all I can say is how 'convenient'.

[bchgirl]

To clear up any further misunderstandings...here is the complete quotation of the question and answer provided by Gertrude Biewer. Italics mine.

14. Did you and your husband ever go back to breed Yorkshire after getting enough genetic material to continue breeding Biewers? Did you stand for a pure breeding, or did you think a Yorkshire should be mixed in every now and then?
It’s a shame that people mix Yorkshires in. It is a fraud towards owner and other breeders.

The translation and letter are easily found on line. I was reluctant to link a website without an owner's permission, but google can provide a source easily.

One needn't leave YT to find proof of biewer x parti breedings.

[Breezeaway]

And that is why I think she did not know what he was breeding because we know he did breed the standard colors back to his tri's.
The letter to me has many questions as in another question she was ask
When Mrs Biewer was asked this question below in a letter:

""Did you want the Biewer to be seen as an independent breed, or as a three-colored Yorkshire?""
Her response was "Well, it is a Yorky, only 3-colored"
Well if she stated that, then it contradicts that is another breed doesn't it.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Questions need to be asked and answered by the Biewer Yorkshire a la pom pon clubs and the Biewer Terrier Club.
I welcome all comments.
Why were these tri puppies from standard colored yorkies registered as Yorkshire Terriers with KFT/ VDH
These dogs were registered in KFT/VDH
Schneeflöckchen von Friedheck, VDH/KFT 19362, geb. 20.01.1984
Diavoletto Bianco von Friedheck, VDH/KFT 20173
Grand Pom Pon von Friedheck, VDH/KFT 20366, geb. 27.08.1984
Schneeanemone von Friedheck, VDH/KFT 22039
Schneeprinz II von Friedheck, VDH/KFT 25/26928 geb. 27.08.1989
Schneezauber von Friedheck, geb. 10.02.1989 Ð
As you can see Schneezauber was born 10/02 1989 after the ACH was established yet he was registered KFT/VDH Yorkshire terrier.
Had the KFT thought these dogs were cross breds they NEVER would have registered them.
But yet these these puppies sired (and / or born of three-color Yorkshire Terriers have no registration from VDH / KFT) but you see the numbers, This is not ACH numbers because ACH uses as the first 2 digits the year they were born in the registration #
Schneerose von Friedheck, Friedheck-Nr.: 001
Schneewirbel von Friedheck, Friedheck-Nr.: 018
Schneeblume von Friedheck, Friedheck-Nr.: 031
Then you have these dogs registered in ACH
Schneewieselchen von Friedheck, ACH 871094, geb. 29.09.1986
Schneediavolo von Friedheck, ACH 881543, geb. 19.09.1987
Schneeball von Friedheck, ACH 882338
Schneeflocke von Friedheck, ACH 882423
Werner Biewer in the years 1984-1989, used all three options for registration of his three-colored Yorkshire terriers . Some litters he still has VDH / KFT registered, others the pedigree itself is written for and still others at ACH Association) registered.
There are a total of 52 dogs names in the pedigree database but few can be actually traced back to their ancestors. Why are these dogs unknown? It was the 80's and there is no reason to have blank pedigrees in the 80's.
What I want to know is have the Biewer Clubs researched this and what exactly are their findings?

Deb,
These are excellent questions however, I don't think you're going to get alot of responces (IMO) as far as I know, there has been very little if any real research done by the Clubs in the US. The most knowledgeable person I know regarding pedigrees has been totally drained from all of the constant fighting and bickering and has chosen to withdraw herself from it altogether.. German breeders are afraid to speak with anyone any more because of the horrific turmoil created here in the states by a few select "ladies" (term used loosely) and the devastating effects their self serving agenda has had on the Biewers name. Most German breeders are staying clear of the controversy and who can blame them. If they become involved their names and reputations are made subject to lies and childish behaviors by these "Ladies" and it's hard to tell who they can trust.

Mrs. Biewer, as far as I can tell, knew very little about her husbands breedings.. she is old, vulnerable and has also been "used" to further personal agendas. A translator was hired to speak with Gunther and I personally was on the phone during these conversations... he stated without reservation that the Biewer was born of traditionally colored Yorkies.. if there was any 'mixing or crossing' of other breeds, it was done PRIOR to the dogs coming to the Biewers home in the creation of the Yorkie itself. He stated there were many breeds that went into the creation of the Yorkie, and the tri coloring most likely was from one of these founding breeds. The Biewers bred yorkies ONLY, no other breeds.

Gunther was exceptionally surprised when he was told of the controversy's here in the states and could not understand the confusion. The Biewer is as it always has been, it has not changed.. it is the same dog now as when it was originally bred by the Biewers traditionally colored dogs.

I will be going back to Germany next summer for my grandsons baptism.. my hope is to visit some Biewer breeders in hopes of learning all I can and fill in some of these questions.. there are still a few left who have knowledge and experience in the formation of these dogs and will know the pedigrees. I know many of them have stopped posting on the database because of the "issues" mentioned above.. unless we can get these holes filled in now before the ones who really know the history, we'll be forever in the dark.

I have also been asked to bring my Parti boy with me.. which hopefully I will be able to do.

Diana

[evab]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

It's odd that there is any mystery about a dog that had it's origin only 25 years ago. You would think there would be complete documentation of every step of its development, including photographic evidence. Any gaps in documenting or questions left unanswered brings the entire enterprise into question. At first glance, the story of the Biewer is quite remarkable, with the odds of what is said to have happened being much less than winning the lottery 2 weeks in a row. What kind of canine alchemy was going on there?

I found this info on the web. Not sure how credible it is, but it does offer some pedigree info. Here's the link. WHAT MAKES IT A BIEWER YORKIE

Here's a bit from the link that I have a question about.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The ORIGINAL Biewer Club is the "ACH" - Allgemeiner Club der Hundefreunde Deutschland - ACH-L e. V. If GERMAN registration is a BIG DEAL to you then this is the registry that you should be registering with. If you register with any other German Registry then you are NOT registering with the ORIGINAL OFFICIAL German Registration Club and therefore should not be squawking about any United States Registry."

...and this

" History: The Breed of Biewer Yorkshire Terrier A la Pom Pon was officially recognized in 1986 by the "ACH" - Allgemeiner Club der Hundefreunde Deutschland - ACH-L e. V. The Biewer Family is given the recognition of producing the first Biewer Yorkshire Terrier A la Pom Pon born on January 20, 1984 by the name of Schnnefloecken von Friedheck or better known as "Snowflake". The Biewer's lived in Hunsruck, Germany."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, I may be reading this wrong, but it seems like the Biewer was first recognized by its own breed club and registered with it. What's that all about? Did Herr Biewer not only breed the Biewer, but started his own breed club and registry? If this is the case, all I can say is how 'convenient'.

The only thing that confuses me here, is the fact that they use the term" Biewer Yorkshire a la Pom Pon, herr Biewer called his little creations "Biewer a la Pom Pon" after his own name and that certainly did not contain the word "Yorkshire". Are they using the titles BYT a la Pom Pon to justify breeding Biewer to Yorkie.

[evab]

Originally Posted by jencar98

As AKC does consider the parti to be a "pure-bred" Yorkshire Terrier, I was quite proud to register my Razz as a parti-color yorkie!

LOLOL....I believe most members here well understand the meaning of the phrase... " Pot calling the kettle black "....your definition wasn't really necessary.

I am sorry that's your opinion not mine, I will quote whatever I myself feel to be relevant, thank you.

I also prefer not to have my posts mis quoted, I can't remember saying the parti were not recognised by the AKC, just not by the originating breed club oh yes and the UKKC in the UNITED KINGDOM dear.

DM: will reply to your post when I have time, busy building new site magazine at the mo

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by evab

I am sorry that's your opinion not mine, I will quote whatever I myself feel to be relevant, thank you.

I also prefer not to have my posts mis quoted, I can't remember saying the parti were not recognised by the AKC, just not by the originating breed club oh yes and the UKKC in the UNITED KINGDOM dear.

DM: will reply to your post when I have time, busy building new site magazine at the mo

I didn't misquote you.

You said.... so long as they don't try to pass em off as a pure bred Yorkie with a piebald gene & register them with the AKC

My reply was a simple statement being that since the AKC does recognize the parti as a yorkieshire terrier, I was quite proud to register my parti yorkie. I'm not trying to "pass" him off as anything other than what he truly is a pure-bred yorkshire terrier - parti color

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by evab

The only thing that confuses me here, is the fact that they use the term" Biewer Yorkshire a la Pom Pon, herr Biewer called his little creations "Biewer a la Pom Pon" after his own name and that certainly did not contain the word "Yorkshire". Are they using the titles BYT a la Pom Pon to justify breeding Biewer to Yorkie.

And again you are wrong, The Yorkshire name was included in his standard. Why would anyone believe you now after you keep posting lies.
Attached is Mr Biewers original standard. I do believe it says Biewer Yorkshire A la Pom pon

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

And again you are wrong, The Yorkshire name was included in his standard. Why would anyone believe you now after you keep posting lies.
Attached is Mr Biewers original standard. I do believe it says Biewer Yorkshire A la Pom pon

Deb, you are correct.. the name of the dog is and always was Biewer Yorkshire ala Pom Pon.. Mr. Biewer forgot the "terrier" part.. but he always included the Yorkshire.

Diana

[yorkiekist]

I know this is a dumb question but: Does anyone REALLY know what Mr Biewer actually was breeding for 10+ years behind closed doors? Its sounds like Mrs Biewer was either left in the dark about his breeding program and in other instances seems as sharp as a tack.
I just wonder if he had an agenda: to produce a parti colored "Yorkie" just as a "breeder" in the U.S. had an agenda to produce a long haired Whippet and the other "breeder" whoes agenda was to produce a toy Afghan. As it turned out, I believe tht AkC actually registered the long haired Whippet but withdrew them after it was found out he was mixing breeds. I dont think the toy Afghan ever got off the ground.
Some of Mr Biewers' breeding records were missing after his death. Why? Also, breeding records are easy to falsify. Any iron clad proof of his breeding adventures over the years before the "spontaneous" arrival of the parti dogs?

I havent found anything on this.

Just wondering

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by evab

The only thing that confuses me here, is the fact that they use the term" Biewer Yorkshire a la Pom Pon, herr Biewer called his little creations "Biewer a la Pom Pon" after his own name and that certainly did not contain the word "Yorkshire". Are they using the titles BYT a la Pom Pon to justify breeding Biewer to Yorkie.

Werner Biewer named the dogs Biewer Yorkshire a la pom pon and it, indeed, included the word yorkshire. The word which wasn't included was...terrier.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

Werner Biewer named the dogs Biewer Yorkshire a la pom pon and it, indeed, included the word yorkshire. The word which wasn't included was...terrier.

This got me to thinking....isn't Yorkshire in England where Mr. Biewer might be from? And now I can see why he would leave in the word "Biewer Yorkshire" and left out "terrier" if it wasn't a "yorkshire terrier" Just a thought.....