Help/Ideas please

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Elle

I can't read through this. This is not an accident, it's intentionally being cruel to a helpless innocent tiny little girl. They are not stuffed animals!

Have any of them died? Where did the parents come from?

You should have read through it, we're beyond the whippings.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

I am so glad that you were able to clear up any confusion about the proper methods of docking tails. I'm still shocked that rubber bands were even suggested as a method to dock.

That as an extremely old fashioned barbaric way of doing it. As well as unsanitary, infection can set in, leading to complications. Geez, it amazes me what people will recommend on here.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

I am so glad that you were able to clear up any confusion about the proper methods of docking tails. I'm still shocked that rubber bands were even suggested as a method to dock.

If one hasn't been fully trained and informed by vet on how, when, to perform these procedures, it should be left to a vet's expert hands. Of course with your guiding the vet on where the tail should be docked. Vet's don't go to school to learn where to dock each individual breed's tail.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

That as an extremely old fashioned barbaric way of doing it. As well as unsanitary, infection can set in, leading to complications. Geez, it amazes me what people will recommend on here.

Not to mention painful. Put a rubber band around your finger and see how painful it gets.

I can give the shots, but cannot do the tails. to me, that is surgery and should be done by a vet.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I agree. Although, there are vets that have docked tails on older dogs. But, it's performed with a laser, with no damage to vertebrae.

Also, what hasn't been mentioned here is that pups shouldn't have their tails/dew claws removed unless the pup is close to 7 ounces. This has to do with their ability to adequantely maintain their blood sugar levels.

Do you wait until they are 7 ounces??? Not being critical, just asking? My vet would never wait that long. he wants them at 3 or 4 days, no sooner, no later.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

3 to 5 days, depending on the weight of the pups. That's the deciding factor. However, if there is a premature litter, it can be done up to 7 days.

In one litter, I had a tiny boy. He had not gained back his birth weight by day 4, he weighed only 1.8 oz. The vet would not do his tail, I asked if I could bring him when when he had gained some weight, he said no cause then it would require him to be anesthesized (sp)

[Elle]

Thank you for your insight D.I.!!!!

Originally Posted by MadDeDo

I am confused? On May 30th of this year you said she was only 9 months:




Wouldn't that make her 11.5 to 12 months old currently?


2.4 lbs is awfully small, I'm sure you're rolling your eyes at the computer screen right now and ignoring what everyone is saying, but seriously you could have lost your little girl very easily. 2.4 lbs is really too small EVEN for a pet, let alone a breeding female. I also have a spayed 3 lber and she is so fragile and just tiny overall. I would have never considered breeding her, I love her too much to risk losing her over a couple of puppies. It was not worth it to me.

Also if she is that upset about being a mother she is better off being spayed anyways. There's a good chance she will be the same way if you bred her again, and next time she may need a c-section and you will be out even more money for vet bills and probably lose one or more pups as well. I finally bred one of my 5 lb girls on her 2nd heat at 2 years old this spring. She had one surviving pup and she was scared to death of him at first and I finally got her to calm down enough to let him nurse, and she cleaned him and went to sleep. I was laying on the couch beside her and I closed my eyes for a few minutes. I was startled awake by her shaking him in her mouth. I quickly got him out and worked on him, but it was too late. It wasn't her fault, it was mine. As soon as mom's milk dried up I had her spayed. She is now in a pet home and doing absolutely wonderful. I did not want to put her through that experience again. Some females, even those who are the right age and size, are just not cut out to be mothers.

I hope you will really think about all this and not just ignore what is being said. Please listen to your little girl and look at how much stress she is under. Is it worth it for her to have to go through it again?

Originally Posted by JeanieK

You should have read through it, we're beyond the whippings.

[kjcmsw]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

My God, she is small. No wonder she had to have a c-section. What on earth possessed you to breed such a small baby? And I do say baby because 15 months is too young, even in a normal sized girl.

Sorry, but everything about this is animal cruelty in my book.

Just out of curiosity, what is the best age for a Yorkie to be bred (first time)? I thought I read somewhere here that if they haven't been bred by age 3 (first time) then one shouldn't breed them, if they shouldn't be bred by 15 months then it seems like a very narrow time span to "catch" a heat during that time frame...but the age 3 I may have misread or imagined it!!!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by kjcmsw

Just out of curiosity, what is the best age for a Yorkie to be bred (first time)? I thought I read somewhere here that if they haven't been bred by age 3 (first time) then one shouldn't breed them, if they shouldn't be bred by 15 months then it seems like a very narrow time span to "catch" a heat during that time frame...but the age 3 I may have misread or imagined it!!!

2nd Heat Cycle or 18 months of age. However, mental maturity plays in the equation. There are some females that aren't mentally mature to be mothers.

You are correct, if a girl is not bred by 3 the first time she shouldn't be bred. Keep in mind the average female comes into Heat every 8 months. Also, keeping in mind a female should be retired by age 5. A girl's breeding time is very short, especially if she's being Championed. You take her out at 6 months of age and if she's a good representation of the breed, she begins obtaining her points on the average of 10 months and for the most part Championed at 18 months. If you breed with her health and welfare at heart. You don't breed every heat cycle, so she'll maybe produce 3 or 4 litters.

[smartpuppiepets]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

This seems barbaric to me and it is beyond me why you would even bring something like this up Do you really think that she needed to be told this after having a 2.4 lb 11 month old puppy having puppies? OMG! She might decided to go this route now!

Well, It is clear by what i posted that i do not agree with it... I think more barbaric than saying and letting the OP know it is barbaric is pretend that we do not know it is largely practiced among many unscrupulous people and let the OP think it is ok ... Goat breeders do it all the time , and i know it is still largelly practiced among many dog millers , just as well as most breeders here knows.
So before judging , just read it through .
I am trying to help, not to get in the middle of any judgment here , which has lately been the route of some members. But i do not appreciate the bad comment anyways.
If nobody tells her it can be done, but should not be done this way ... how could she know? Huh?
XOXO

[smartpuppiepets]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

That as an extremely old fashioned barbaric way of doing it. As well as unsanitary, infection can set in, leading to complications. Geez, it amazes me what people will recommend on here.

Hi mardelin,
You are commenting on something i posted not as a recommendation... just as information...
It is not an ancient way of doing this, most millers still practice it a lot, some even proudly post on their web sites as a "proper method" od doing tail docking and saving money on vet bills, just google and you will see it.
Someone else posted a rude comment about my posting , but may have not paid attention while reading it. I would never, as i did NOT, reccomend it as a way of doing it.
It has been to many "assumptions" here lately. My post is clear on the subject , not a suggestion of a method, but rather informational about something i "do not agree with " .
XOXO

[Elle]

I don't agree that it is largely still practiced, even in mills. I've seen a video of what was very clearly a miller her was not doing this. I've never seen or heard of anyone doing this. NEVER. Nobody has ever brought it up to me. Never!They still pull teeth without numbing too, but not in modern medicine.

Originally Posted by smartpuppiepets

Well, It is clear by what i posted that i do not agree with it... I think more barbaric than saying and letting the OP know it is barbaric is pretend that we do not know it is largely practiced among many unscrupulous people and let the OP think it is ok ... Goat breeders do it all the time , and i know it is still largelly practiced among many dog millers , just as well as most breeders here knows.
So before judging , just read it through .
I am trying to help, not to get in the middle of any judgment here , which has lately been the route of some members. But i do not appreciate the bad comment anyways.
If nobody tells her it can be done, but should not be done this way ... how could she know? Huh?
XOXO

[smartpuppiepets]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Do you wait until they are 7 ounces??? Not being critical, just asking? My vet would never wait that long. he wants them at 3 or 4 days, no sooner, no later.

I ALWAYS , have mine done at day 2 and puppies are not always above 7 ounces at day 2 and i never had a problem, and on that matter i speak for me and also family, fellow club members that never had a single problem by docking at day 2. No problems with the proper healing if right absorbent thread is used to suture and "surgical glue" used right after it to prevent mom from licking the sutures off.
I can do it myself , but prefer the vets to do it... and yes, i have proper background training on sutures and small procedures, i still preffer to take to the vet to have it done.
XOXO

[smartpuppiepets]

Originally Posted by Elle

I don't agree that it is largely still practiced, even in mills. I've seen a video of what was very clearly a miller her was not doing this. I've never seen or heard of anyone doing this. NEVER. Nobody has ever brought it up to me. Never!They still pull teeth without numbing too, but not in modern medicine.

Because you do not agree it does not mean it is no longer practiced... because you never heard of it , it does not mean it is still not recommended... i see no point on posting the links to sites that actually teach people how to do it here... but there are many ... and there are some breeders, millers, with many many different breeds, who have dedicated entire pages on their "breeding page" on their websites proudly explaining how to do it and defending the practice as a great money saving ...so just google it, you will even find tools used to "stretch " the bands and their "color codes" according to breeds.
NOW... I DID NOT RECCOMMEND IT NOR I AGREE WITH IT AS IT IS ON MY ORIGINAL POST ... someone who over read it made a bad comment about my original post .
For one thing , i believe everyone must be informed on what NOT TO DO as well as on WHAT SHOULD BE DONE, just like you .
XOXO

[Furbaby Friend]

smartpuppiepets: I, for one, realized that you were not suggesting/recommending/supporting the method you described in any way. Even from your first post. So I'm not too sure how others got that impression?

For another, I didn't realize it was even possible to dock a tail in such a way. I feel more informed and more educated, which I think is important because that lets me be more careful about yet another aspect of purchasing a pup from someone. It gives me something to look out for and inquire about. So I too think it is important to mention it for information's sake even if it is not recommended. Of course, you have to make clear it is *not* recommended, but I think you did a fine job of that.