Help/Ideas please

[smartpuppiepets]

Originally Posted by Furbaby Friend

smartpuppiepets: I, for one, realized that you were not suggesting/recommending/supporting the method you described in any way. Even from your first post. So I'm not too sure how others got that impression?

For another, I didn't realize it was even possible to dock a tail in such a way. I feel more informed and more educated, which I think is important because that lets me be more careful about yet another aspect of purchasing a pup from someone. It gives me something to look out for and inquire about. So I too think it is important to mention it for information's sake even if it is not recommended. Of course, you have to make clear it is *not* recommended, but I think you did a fine job of that.

HALLELLUIAH !!!!!! I am singing of joy ... someone actually "got it " !
Thank you ... i mean... thank you , thank you , thank you !!!
I stopped posting here for a while because of these "misunderstandings" ... and just did not have the patience to deal with the explanations of misread posts...
But you MADE MY DAY !!!! Thank you again !!!!
It is rewarding when at least one person understands what i am saying , or better, writing!
I love you ... haha
XOXO

[megansmomma]

Just so that we are on the same page here. I didn't not misread what you said in your post. It was quoted and I commented. You might call it educational. I call it TMI and makes it very dangerous.

Originally Posted by smartpuppiepets

Tails can be docked 20 min after puppies are born or from day 2 to day 7 depending on the situation, between days 2 and 5 ideal to do tails and dewclaws.
It varies from the preference of who is doing it.
After day 10 it should not be done as it may cause damage to the peripheral nerves on the vertebrae, but still can be done with the help of rubber bands ( not that i recommend it ) , it is a painful process that can take up to 7 days .
If all is well there is no point on not doing it on the right days it can safely be done.
XOXO

Originally Posted by megansmomma

This seems barbaric to me and it is beyond me why you would even bring something like this up Do you really think that she needed to be told this after having a 2.4 lb 11 month old puppy having puppies? OMG! She might decided to go this route now!

Originally Posted by smartpuppiepets

HALLELLUIAH !!!!!! I am singing of joy ... someone actually "got it " !
Thank you ... i mean... thank you , thank you , thank you !!!
I stopped posting here for a while because of these "misunderstandings" ... and just did not have the patience to deal with the explanations of misread posts...
But you MADE MY DAY !!!! Thank you again !!!!
It is rewarding when at least one person understands what i am saying , or better, writing!
I love you ... haha
XOXO

You have gone on and on about ME and now I need to say something to you directly! I stand FIRMLY behind what I originally said to you when I quoted your post. It was unnecessary and dangerous to even bring up the use of rubber bands to dock tails. Regardless of your opinion that it was educational and not something that recommend. Why even put that idea out there that it is done? You should have left it at using a vet for docking~end of story.

I know for a fact that some cultures will use rubber bands to neuter/castrate male dogs. That's right, they wrap them around the scrotum until the testis fall off. Usually takes about 7 days. Do I even bring that up in a discussion regarding neutering? Absolutely not! Can you google search it? Sure but why even put that idea out there for others to read? It's dangerous and unnecessary information that does not need to be shared.

Now I am hoping that you "get it".

[smartpuppiepets]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

Just so that we are on the same page here. I didn't not misread what you said in your post. It was quoted and I commented. You might call it educational. I call it TMI and makes it very dangerous.







You have gone on and on about ME and now I need to say something to you directly! I stand FIRMLY behind what I originally said to you when I quoted your post. It was unnecessary and dangerous to even bring up the use of rubber bands to dock tails. Regardless of your opinion that it was educational and not something that recommend. Why even put that idea out there that it is done? You should have left it at using a vet for docking~end of story.

I know for a fact that some cultures will use rubber bands to neuter/castrate male dogs. That's right, they wrap them around the scrotum until the testis fall off. Usually takes about 7 days. Do I even bring that up in a discussion regarding neutering? Absolutely not! Can you google search it? Sure but why even put that idea out there for others to read? It's dangerous and unnecessary information that does not need to be shared.

Now I am hoping that you "get it".

Well, you obviously think that because you have your way of doing things and your thoughts , everyone else has to go your way ...

This is an open forum and not only me, but you and every member has the same right ...

I am done with the arguing with you as obviously you do not "get it" either.

And talking about barbaric descriptions????????
" I know for a fact that some cultures will use rubber bands to neuter/castrate male dogs. That's right, they wrap them around the scrotum until the testis fall off. Usually takes about 7 days."
Hum....

I guess some just assume they own the truth, and their ways are only ways , and their thinking is the only thinking ...

Well,
GOD BLESSED AMERICA and this is a free country !
I am thankful for that ! I get that !
And i stand behind what i posted, not behind what others think i should have, and my intentions are clear on my posts.

I hope you have a blessed and happy healthy night !
XOXO

[Mardelin]

Docking tails and nuetering dogs with rubber bands is a very old barbaric method. However, it is usually performed by those that are uneducated or view animals as a commodity. Does it need to be shared on a forum such as this. It's not necessary to bring it to anyone's attention? What we should be educating on is how to do things the correct, medical way.

[BamaFan121s]

I'm not sure what's enforced in other regions of the country, but here, docking via rubber band method is considered animal cruelty and you can have your dogs confiscated as well as arrested or charged fines of animal cruelty.

[Beamers Mom]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Docking tails and nuetering dogs with rubber bands is a very old barbaric method. However, it is usually performed by those that are uneducated or view animals as a commodity. Does it need to be shared on a forum such as this. It's not necessary to bring it to anyone's attention? What we should be educating on is how to do things the correct, medical way.

Very barbaric. And I know you probably know how the tails were often docked in Yorkshire in the "olden" days, (and it has been in my lifetime). Thank God people use vets now.

[yorkie_mama22]

Just so that we are on the same page here. I didn't not misread what you said in your post. It was quoted and I commented. You might call it educational. I call it TMI and makes it very dangerous.


Quote:
Originally Posted by smartpuppiepets
Tails can be docked 20 min after puppies are born or from day 2 to day 7 depending on the situation, between days 2 and 5 ideal to do tails and dewclaws.
It varies from the preference of who is doing it.
After day 10 it should not be done as it may cause damage to the peripheral nerves on the vertebrae, but still can be done with the help of rubber bands ( not that i recommend it ) , it is a painful process that can take up to 7 days .
If all is well there is no point on not doing it on the right days it can safely be done.
XOXO

Quote:
Originally Posted by megansmomma
This seems barbaric to me and it is beyond me why you would even bring something like this up Do you really think that she needed to be told this after having a 2.4 lb 11 month old puppy having puppies? OMG! She might decided to go this route now!

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartpuppiepets
HALLELLUIAH !!!!!! I am singing of joy ... someone actually "got it " !
Thank you ... i mean... thank you , thank you , thank you !!!
I stopped posting here for a while because of these "misunderstandings" ... and just did not have the patience to deal with the explanations of misread posts...
But you MADE MY DAY !!!! Thank you again !!!!
It is rewarding when at least one person understands what i am saying , or better, writing!
I love you ... haha
XOXO

You have gone on and on about ME and now I need to say something to you directly! I stand FIRMLY behind what I originally said to you when I quoted your post. It was unnecessary and dangerous to even bring up the use of rubber bands to dock tails. Regardless of your opinion that it was educational and not something that recommend. Why even put that idea out there that it is done? You should have left it at using a vet for docking~end of story.

I know for a fact that some cultures will use rubber bands to neuter/castrate male dogs. That's right, they wrap them around the scrotum until the testis fall off. Usually takes about 7 days. Do I even bring that up in a discussion regarding neutering? Absolutely not! Can you google search it? Sure but why even put that idea out there for others to read? It's dangerous and unnecessary information that does not need to be shared.

Now I am hoping that you "get it".
I really don't think she was intentionally trying to put bad ideas in the OPs head. I really feel from what she posted that she was just stating information. I myself have saw videos on YOUTUBE of people docking tails and removing duclaws on their own which I thought was quick gross and wrong!!! I know one video where the guy clamped the tail and said you just "twist and it pops off "


I feel that you are coming off very strong in your post and it is really not necessary. I mean she said she doesn't recommend it so its not like she said " Hey heres an idea to save you some money, use a rubber band ". I think your really jumping on her over a silly comment.

I've seen some of the youtube videos of breeders docking tails themselves by clamping and as they said " twisting and the tail pops off " that is wrong and gross to me!!!

[Rhetts_mama]

She may have said she doesn't recommend it. But unfortunately, there will always be some idiot who sees something on the internet and decides it IS a good idea.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

She may have said she doesn't recommend it. But unfortunately, there will always be some idiot who sees something on the internet and decides it IS a good idea.

Thank goodness it is considered animal cruelty now.

As far as clamping, there are vets that dock this way, however, it's how the they perform the procedure is the key. It's not the method that I perfer.

[yorkielady06]

To the OP I will not "jump" on you as I hope you know well what has happened to this baby is terrible. You came on and took the scolding and I applaud you for that. I personally would have spayed the bitch prior to being bred or right after the tie being that small (even under 5 pounds). However you do need to spend some time researching many things.
Signs of Eclampsia is important in this case:
1
These signs progress very rapidly, sometimes in a matter of minutes. Act fast or your girl could die.
First thing you will notice is that she will act 'off'. She won't want to tend to her babies. She will likely be very 'needy' of your attention and appear worried. She will become restless and begin panting. The panting will get increasingly worse to the point of not only drooling a little but A LOT.
2
Very soon after this - maybe minutes, maybe an hour - she will start staggering around, tripping and even falling right down. This is very scary. It's almost as if she were drunk or having a stroke.
3
She may then get to a point where she can not stand any longer and just keep moving her legs in an awkward paddling motion as if she were having seizures. Her neck and head may even thrust backwards as she arches her back. By this point, if she is not at least on the way to the vet, she may die. It is SO important that you get your girl rushed to the vet the moment you see the first signs and NOT wait until this stage, yet if this is the first you see of it, don't give up, the vet may still save her. Get her to your vet NOW.

I hope your vet has you supplementing her calcium with Pet cal...1/2 tab twice a day. You also should have oral cal plus on hand. A liquid vitamin is not enough for a girl that small and pups that big.

The pups should be on the canned goats milk formula in addition to mom.(You should be supplementing the pups at least 4 times a day to help prevent the eclampsia and weight loss in your momma along with supplementing her)
1 can goats milk
1 can distilled water or boiled
1-2 tbsp kayro syrup
I personally add 1/2 cup of full fat Unflavored yorgurt with active cultures instead of the benebac to help with digestion. Make sure it is plain and no flavors or artificial sweeteners.
You give one cc for every ounce weight of the puppy..so a 5 ounce pup would need 5 ccs every feeding...

Please start feeding these babies real food as soon as they are able to lick off a plate. Start with the above mixture with a little bit of baby rice cereal, then thicken as they get better with it. Then by 4 weeks you can add quality dry puppy food ground up into it to make it a mush. This can be fed to momma too.

2 weeks vacation will not be enough. Eclampsia can happen anytime but mostly in the first 2 weeks. Momma and babies could have low blood sugar episodes that are emergencies in and of themselves. Have Kayro ready and know the symptoms. Watch momma and babies like a hawk from now till the go to their furever homes in 12 weeks or more. I hope you have someone to check on them at least hourly after your vacation is over....
And I was happy to read that you plan on getting momma spayed. That is the right thing to do.
Good luck with the litter and momma...

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

She may have said she doesn't recommend it. But unfortunately, there will always be some idiot who sees something on the internet and decides it IS a good idea.

THAT was my point that somehow became overlooked. Why bring it up at all. All I did was state the obvious and I do not feel I attacked anyone with my statement.

[jrsygal37]

Originally Posted by Barbi1977

Thank you for reminding me, when I added her I put her BD in wrong, she is a year and 3 months. She is little. Vet says she will always be. She is 2.4 pounds and was 5.2 pounds minutes before csection. Oddly enough her (Abby's ) mom and dad are both twice her size. lol. somehow she just decided that she wanted to be the midget of the family. lol

R U kidding me. You bred a 2.4 lb. girl? WOW!!!!

[jrsygal37]

Originally Posted by Barbi1977

and yes we took many precautions, other than removing Bailey from the house.

How about having her spayed, before it happened. That would have been a better precaution. Just my thoughts. Or of course having Bailey neutered.

[jrsygal37]

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

Size of the pups against the mom just proves there is no way she is 5 pounds.

EXACTLY. I have a 2.5 pound Yorkie full grown. I'm fully aware of what that size Yorkie looks like and there is NO WAY THAT MOM IS THE SIZE YOU ARE NOW STATING. She is very very tiny. She is atleast as small as my Brooklyn. The shame is not on us it's on you for even considering to breed such a small Yorkie.